Paradise Cafe Discussions - A Place For Bible Research And Christian Encouragement

Are Adam and Eve saved?

Will Adam and Eve be in paradise?

Don't go back to the WT's explainations, uses scriptural proof to back up your opinion.

Thanks,

Matt

Hi Mavos, I guess I will take the first crack at your question!:read:

We don't have full knowledge but God does. That is why there will be a resurrection and a judgement, to determine who or not will be saved. So, I don't think you can reach a definite yes or no, Adam and Eve will be saved. Of course, we can be sure of God's wisdom, justice, mercy and love. I also feel that it is rather presumptious of humans to think that they can determine or guess who will and will not be saved.

However, what I believe (and therefore sure of) is that they will receive a resurrection.

Matt25:32 Then all the nations will be arranged before him and he will sort the people out, much as a shepherd sorts out sheep and goats, putting sheep to his right and goats to his left.

Rev 20:11-15I saw a Great White Throne and the One Enthroned. Nothing could stand before or against the Presence, nothing in Heaven, nothing on earth. And then I saw all the dead, great and small, standing there—before the Throne! And books were opened. Then another book was opened: the Book of Life. The dead were judged by what was written in the books, by the way they had lived. Sea released its dead, Death and Hell turned in their dead. Each man and woman was judged by the way he or she had lived. Then Death and Hell were hurled into Lake Fire. This is the second death—Lake Fire. Anyone whose name was not found inscribed in the Book of Life was hurled into Lake Fire.

John 5:28-29"Don't act so surprised at all this. The time is coming when everyone dead and buried will hear his voice. Those who have lived the right way will walk out into a resurrection Life; those who have lived the wrong way, into a resurrection Judgment.

Acts 24: 14-15"But I do freely admit this: In regard to the Way, which they malign as a dead-end street, I serve and worship the very same God served and worshiped by all our ancestors and embrace everything written in all our Scriptures. And I admit to living in hopeful anticipation that God will raise the dead, both the good and the bad. If that's my crime, my accusers are just as guilty as I am.

Salaam, Lou:hibye:

Ecclesiastes 9:2...

"One eventuality there is to the righteous one and the wicked one, the good one and the clean one and the unclean one, and the one sacrificing and the one that is not sacrificing. The good one is the same as the sinner; the one swearing is the same as whoever has been afraid of a sworn oath. This is what is calamitous in all that has been done under the sun, that, because there is one eventuality to all,..."

Romans 6:23...

" For the wages sin pays is death, but the gift God gives is everlasting life by Christ Jesus our Lord."

Hi Mavos

I don't quite understand the question. They couldn't accept Christ, because they died thousands of years before he came, but that also applies to millions of others.

They could be. Paul says: "Just as in Adam all are dying, so also in the Christ all will be made alive." (1 Cor 15:22)

Everyone dies, including Adam. So if we take Paul at face value, it seems to imply that everyone will be made alive, including Adam.

We can do all the rationalizing in the world, but no scripture says that Adam and Eve won't be resurrected. On the other hand, we do see scriptures like the one above.

On the other hand, if all are to be resurrected, will those who blaspheme against the spirit also be resurrected, if they are not to be forgiven in this age, or the age to come?

Here is something interesting to add to the mix:

"And it was not Adam who was deceived, but the woman being deceived, fell into transgression." (1 Timothy 2:14 NASB)

The serpent deceived Eve. It does not appear that Satan tempted the man. While the woman said, "The serpent deceived me, and I ate." (Gen. 3:13 NASB) Adam received the fruit from the hand of his wife; he knew he was transgressing, he was not deceived. Eve did not deceive Adam, but persuaded him. "Because you have listened to the voice of your wife, and have eaten from the tree..." (Gen. 3:17 NASB) Since Adam knew he was transgressing, and although being without sin he choose to sin, does this have a bearing on his salvation?

Re: "Since Adam knew he was transgressing, and although being without sin he choose to sin, does this have a bearing on his salvation?"

Hi Mavos,

Well, I don´t think Adam is alone in this, there are millions of others who know they are transgressing while transgressing. The bible doesn´t single out Adam or Eve as transgressing in any different manner. The only difference being Adam and Eve were the first. But the scriptures say "all" have fallen. Now, if Adam and Eve are just one of us in sinning, the ransom should also apply to them;IMHO.

"There is no difference, for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God, and are justified freely by his grace through the redemption that came by Jesus Christ."-Romans 3:22-23

Brotherly Love,

AR

Some theorize that the following scripture also has bearing....

"The LORD God made garments of skin for Adam and his wife, and clothed them." (Genesis 3:21 NASB)

Some think that it is likely that the skins out of which their clothing was made were taken off animals whose blood had been poured out as a sin-offering to God. We find Cain and Abel offering sacrifices to God. They presume that God had given them instructions on this practice. They say that it is unlikely that the notion of a sacrifice could have ever occurred to the mind of man without an express revelation from God. Those who believe this say that the very first death that took place in the world was an emblem and type of that death which would later conquer sin.

What do you think of this conclusion?

Hi Tesh and everyone:hibye:

A scripture that might have a bearing on this discussion is Romans 5:14:

"Nevertheless, death ruled as king from Adam down to Moses, even over those who had not sinned after the likeness of the transgression by Adam, who bears a resemblance to him that was to come."

Would it not seem as though Adam's sin was of a different sort? The context of this passage is also interesting.

Love, Rez:giverose:

Hi Mavos

Re: "...the very first death that took place in the world .."

I'm lost here. The "first death"? How is one to assume who or what died first in creation? (The life cycles of animals is clear (and obvious)....animals died before covering was made for the first humans.)

(There are so many things in Genesis that are assumed...there is no record of births of females, for example; so readers of Genesis assume the third child born to Adam and Eve was Seth, for example?)

gogh

Selam Rez,

I stand corrected, sis!

Much brotherly love,

Tesh

Howdy Resolute

Thanks for the scripture.

Re: "... even over those who had not sinned after the likeness of the transgression by Adam,..."

Since Adam, all have been born sinful, so does this scripture not indicate, that, although all sin, some do demonstrate faith (Abel), compared to Adam who did not demonstrate faith. So, does this scripture indicate
a comparison of levels of transgression? Or indicate faithfulness/unfaithfulness?

Christian love,

gogh

I have heard this teaching also, Mavos. This kind of speculation leads to all kinds of sloppiness and when it forms the foundation for any argument, the whole thing falls down when we rightly ask for the scriptural reason for the teaching....i.e. Universal Salvation, etc.

Just a thought, Rez

What about this principle:

(Numbers 35:31-32) “31 And YOU must take no ransom for the soul of a murderer who is deserving to die, for without fail he should be put to death. 32 And YOU must not take a ransom for one who has fled to his city of refuge, to resume dwelling in the land before the death of the high priest.”


So do they benefit from the “corresponding ransom” of Jesus Christ according to this principle????

Well, yes, Adam was the only one who disobeyed the command: "Do not eat from this tree." No one else has committed a sin like that, because no one else was given such a command.

Notice the context:
For until the Law sin was in the world, but sin is not charged against anyone when there is no law. 14 Nevertheless, death ruled as king from Adam down to Moses, even over those who had not sinned after the likeness of the transgression by Adam...

Paul is saying that, even though the people who did not have a direct command given to them (as Adam did), they still have sinned. And so, even though technically they should not be charged for their sins, they still die as a result of their sins. Paul is talking to the Gentiles, who did not have any law of God. He tells them they are still sinners, despite their lack of knowledge of the laws of God. He is telling them that they still bear the same fate as Adam.

How do we know their fate is the same? Because he says so:

That is why, just as through one man sin entered into the world and death through sin, and thus death spread to all men because they had all sinned...

Adam sinned and thus died. We all sin and thus die. It doesn't matter whether we had a law given to us or not.

In other words, instead of Paul saying that we receive less consequences for sin than Adam, he is, in fact, saying that we experience equal consequences.

Donbodo, this was the point I was making....in response to what Alien Resident said:

....that was all. Please don't make an argument out of it.:funnyface: Why make things unnecessarily complicated.:albert: