It would seem as though the 607-587 debate could be solved if anyone could resolve the mystery of Ezekiel 4:4, 5, which says: "Then go to sleep on your left side, and lay the sins of Israel’s house upon you… their unrighteousness you must [then bear], for the number of days that you sleep [on that side]. Now, I’ve appointed two things that you must do, concerning their unrighteous deeds: You must bear the unrighteousness of Israel’s house, for three hundred and ninety [full] days."
Obviously the prophecy can be trusted, but secular chronology can't. However, if Jerusalem was destroyed in 607, Jeroboam started his reign in 997. But if it was destroyed in 587, Jeroboam started his reign in 977 (not 930 as is normally assumed - see below). Or if Jeroboam truly started his reign in 930, the Jerusalem was destroyed in 540. Or if the prophecy was talking about the restoration to the promised land, then how does the 40 year against Jerusalem work in?
There must be something wrong with the dates shown below.
Anyone want to step up to the plate?
KINGS OF ISRAEL
Jeroboam, bad, 930-909 BC

Nadab, bad, 909-908 BC

Baasha, bad, 908-886 BC

Elah, bad, 886-885 BC

Zimri, bad, 885 BC

Tibni, bad, 885-880 BC

Omri (overlap), extra bad, 885-874 BC

Ahab, the worst, 874-853 BC

Ahaziah, bad, 853-852 BC

Joram, bad mostly, 852-841 BC

Jehu, not good but better than the rest, 841-814 BC

Jehoahaz, bad, 814-798 BC

Joash, bad, 798-782 BC

Jeroboam II (overlap), bad, 793-753 BC

Zechariah, bad, 753 BC

Shallum, bad, 752 BC

Menahem, bad, 752-742 BC

Pekahiah, bad, 742-740 BC

Pekah (overlap), bad, 752-732 BC

Hoshea, bad, 732-722 BC


KINGS OF JUDAH:


Rehoboam, bad mostly, 933-916 BC

Abijah, bad mostly, 915-913 BC

Asa, GOOD, 912-872 BC

Jehoshaphat, GOOD, 874-850 BC

Jehoram, bad, 850-843 BC

Ahaziah, bad, 843 BC

Athaliah, devilish, 843-837 BC

Joash, good mostly, 843-803 BC

Amaziah, good mostly, 803-775 BC

Uzziah, GOOD mostly, 787-735 BC

Jotham, GOOD, 749-734 BC

Ahaz, wicked, 741-726 BC

Hezekiah, THE BEST, 726-697 BC

Manasseh, the worst, 697-642 BC

Amon, the worst, 641-640 BC

Josiah, THE BEST, 639-608 BC

Jehoahaz, bad, 608 BC

Jehoiakim, wicked, 608-597 BC

Jehoiachin, bad, 597 BC

Zedekiah, bad, 597-586 BC
Well, I've done some research, and the Septuagint shows that the rulership of the Kings of Israel lasted almost 50 years longer than the Masoretic text indicates, and it shows that the time from the exodus to the building of the Temple was 40 years shorter. So, if the prophecy in Ezekiel and the Septuagint dates are correct, the reigns of Saul, David, and Solomon started 40 or 50 years earlier than most think.
Well, here are the results of my research. You will see that it comes out seven years short of the prophecy (970-BCE instead of 977), but some of my calculations could be wrong, and there are surely some errors caused by the portions of years in the reigns (all the years were shown as even numbers).
Also, I haven't answered my question (607 or 587), because the exact date of Israel's destruction is hotly debated among scholars. They mostly agree on 722, but the numbers below indicate 729, if Jerusalem was destroyed in 587. However, add twenty more years to each date if it was destroyed in 607.
Israel's Kings
Jeroboam
970-948 22-yrs (1 kings 14:20)
Nadab 948-946
2-yrs (1 kings 15:25)
Baasha 946-922 24-yrs (1 kings 15:33)
Elah 922-920 
2-yrs (1 kings 16:8)
Zimri 920 
7 days (1 kings 16:15)
Tibni 920 

Omri 920-908
12-yrs (1 kings 16:23)
Ahab 908-886 
22-yrs (1 kings 16:29)
Ahaziah
2-yrs (1 kings 22:52)
Joram 884-872 
12-yrs (2 Kings 3:1)
Jehu 872-844 
 28-yrs (2 Kings 10:36)
Jehoahaz 844-827 
17-yrs (2 Kings 13:1)
Joash 827-811 
16-yrs (2 Kings 13:10)
Jeroboam II 811-770
41-yrs (2 Kings 14:23)
Zechariah 770 
.5-yrs (2 Kings 15:8)
Shallum 770 
.12-yrs (2 Kings 15:13)
Menahem 770-760 
10-yrs (2 Kings 15:17)
Pekahiah 760-758 
2-yrs (2 Kings 15:23)
Pekah 758-738 
20-yrs (2 Kings 15:27)
Hoshea 738-
729
9-yrs (2 Kings 17:1)
Judah's Kings (from Ahaz)
Ahaz 753-734 16-yrs. Hoshea starts rule in 12th year (in 741) (2 Kings 17:1) and rules 9 years until Israel’s destruction (741-12=
729)
Hezekiah 734-705
29-yrs (2 Kings 18:2)
Manasseh 705-650
55-yrs (2 Kings 21:1)
Amon 650-648 2-yrs (2 Kings 21:19)
Josiah 648-617 31-yrs (2 Kings 22:1)
Jehoahaz 617
3 months (2 Kings 23:31)
Jehoiakim 617-606
11-yrs (2 Kings 23:36)
Jehoiachin 606-598
8-yrs (2 Kings 24:12
Zedekiah 598-
587 11-yrs (2 Kings 24:18)
Well; probably no one else is interested, but I have been researching EzekiEl more, and have concluded that the dates and ages of the last kings of Judah have to be wrong and off by TEN YEARS! Why? The prophecy showed that there was to be 40 years of judgment on Judah before its destruction by Babylon. But as you can see, that would put the beginning of this period smack dab in the reign of the very righteous King Josiah, which makes no sense at all if the dates are right.
I know that a lot of people would consider this anomaly unimportant. But what value is prophecy if it works out making no sense, or if no on can point to an event (in this case) that everyone could mark as a starting point?
It's a fact that the Septuagint dating differs from the Masoretic text on all three of the last kings of Judah, so something is wrong here. However, going by the dates in the Hebrew text doesn't make any more sense. Therefore, I'm just trusting that at least one of the dates and periods is wrong.
Can anyone else come up with a significant event that would prove the start of the 40-year prophecy? (I trust that Jehovah had things right when He spoke the prophecy.)
Hello JWHVACR
Thank you for presenting your research.
(Just because I have zero input, does not mean your topic (math calculations) does not interest me....grin) :coffeeread:...(I like math...as long as someone else is doing it)...grin...:thumbsup:
Christian love and appreciation,
gogh
Hello JWHVACR
Thank you for presenting your research.
(Just because I have zero input, does not mean your topic (math calculations) does not interest me....grin) :coffeeread:...(I like math...as long as someone else is doing it)...grin...:thumbsup:
Ah, a refreshing and truly honest reply... thanks!
JWHVACR –
Heavy duty research questions here - its taking me a while to process through it.
While I do that, have you been through the fourteen lines of reasoning that are presented in the latest edition of The Gentile Times Reconsidered - by Carl Olaf Jonsson - that establishes and then matches up astronomically fixed dates to certain years of Nebuchadnezzar’s rule and other historical/Biblical events?
It’s been a few years since I’ve read the book (for the third or fourth time), but these astronomically fixed dates appear solid to me for establishing a 587 BCE date as the fall of Jerusalem and for providing a reliable absolute date point in time for moving forward and backward in history off the Bible’s relative date points in time that are based on the length of the reigns of kings etc. I don’t know off hand whether the dates established by these lines of reasoning will help clarify your 390 year question or not, but I will look and see what I come up with as I go through your information here.
Thanks for the hard work you’ve presented here - this is a timeline angle that I’ve never looked at before. Interesting details for us chronology wonk types out here that love "doing the math"!
v r
Hi Veritas... I see that I'm communicating with a true Bible student.
I haven't read the book, but I'm getting pretty skeptical about everyone's Bible research. The Jewish dating is far off (almost 100 years later) from the 587 date, and that doesn't work out to coincide with the 70-week prophecy or the 70-year prophecy, and I trust the prophecies more than other sources. Here is some later research that I've done on the dates:
http://www.2001translation.com/Dates.htm.
Please keep in touch.
Your brother,
JIM
JWHVACR –
I sense from your writings at least two things you are likely unmovable about: the reliability of God’s prophecies - and God’s orderly universe that runs better than a manmade atomic clock. If so, The Gentile Times Reconsidered is a book for you to definitely check out.
While it’s a darn tough read, Brother Jonsson in my opinion was moved by the Holy Spirit to “bump†into the event that caused him to research and write it – at great expense to himself and his family – and to the benefit of Truth Seekers like us everywhere.
I’ll go get my copies back that I’ve loaned out, and work to relate some of the key astronomical timeline connectives to the 390 year question - in a post coming soon to a forum near you. I will check out the link to your date references as well.
v r
Well, we all need a reference point that we can trust. And the only such reference that I've found is the Bible, since nothing else makes sense to me anymore.