Paradise Cafe Discussions - A Place For Bible Research And Christian Encouragement

The other day I was speaking to a "witness" family member and somehow the subject of Jesus' enthronement came up.

I took the oportunity to use scripture and reasoning which unfolded like this:

Me: How many enthronements does Jesus have?

Them: One

Me: And you believe that happened in the early 1900's?

Them: Yes

Me: Reads Mat. 25:31 "But when the Son of Man comes in his glory, and all the holy angels with him, then he will sit on the throne of his glory"......Did this already happen?

They: No

Me: Where does the bible say Jesus went to upon his return to heaven?

They: At God's right hand.

Me: Until when?

They: reply was equivelant of Heb. 2:8 which is correct.

Me: Has that happened yet? (subjection of all things)

They: No.

Me: Reads Rev 20:2 He seized the dragon, the old serpent, which is the devil and Satan, who deceives the whole inhabited earth, and bound him for a thousand years,
Rev 20:3 and cast him into the abyss, and shut it, and sealed it over him, that he should deceive the nations no more, until the thousand years were finished. After this, he must be freed for a short time.
Rev 20:4 I saw thrones, and they sat on them, and judgment was given to them. I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded for the testimony of Jesus, and for the word of God, and such as didn't worship the beast nor his image, and didn't receive the mark on their forehead and on their hand. They lived, and reigned with Christ for a thousand years

Me: When does Jesus enthronement and kingship begin?

They: After Satan is abyssed.

Me: Has this happened yet?

They: No.

Me: Do you still think Jesus was enthroned as reigning king in the early 1900's?

They: Yes.

Me: So we are already under his millennial reign?

They: Doesn't know. (apparently sinking in and didn't know what to say)

At this point my family member no longer wanted to discuss it. Hopefully it registered somewhere.

:thumbup: Welcome, Beowulf! I'm already enjoying your additions to the discussions. :drinking: I'm so glad you found our board and decided to fellowship with us here!:friends:

The problem with the WT chronology is just what you've pointed out - it doesn't follow any reasonable chronological order. They link a verse here to a verse there - completely out of context - and literally invent a 'unique teaching'.

To get them thinking on what the Bible actually says is a noble undertaking, and I hope something cognitive 'clicks' with your family member.

Willa :peace:

That was great Beowolf! Welcome to the storehouse. You did good. You shut their mouths and they had that "Uh...duhhhh".... look right?

So shall he sprinkle many nations; the kings shall shut their mouths at him: for that which had not been told them shall they see; and that which they had not heard shall they consider. Isaiah 52:15

Ezekiel 36:25 "Then I will sprinkle clean water on you, and you will be clean; I will cleanse you from all your filthiness and from all your idols.

Ephesians 3:5 which in other generations was not made known to the sons of men, as it has now been revealed to His holy apostles and prophets in the Spirit;


good comment Willa. I alwyas thought that too. I would see them read a scripture to fit whatever they were saying, and then move on to the next paragraph. I would sit there still reading on down in my bible the surrounding verses, that meant something completly different, and if they had only read on down further, they would have seen the truth. When I was still attending meetings , I would read my bible at the meetings, not even paying attention to the talks. Thats when I woke up and statred missing meetings to read my bible and deeply meditate on it.
Love,
New Heart

Welcome Beowulf

here I posted a few words tangent to Jesus' enthroning :

http://www.paradisecafediscussions.net/s...7#pid56707

I hope it is understandeable

brotherly greetings,
rus virgil from romania.

Welcome wulf!
Because of the obvious flaw in the WTS dis logic, they are moving away from using that word, "enthronement" in reference to 1914. Phrases like, "he sat down in Kingdom power" are used, which are more ambiguous. :funnyface: :coffeeread:

Howdy EM

Re: "..."he sat down in Kingdom power" are used,..."

It seems the society currently has Jesus/Michael in a standing position. :funnyface:

Some references from the "Daniel's Prophecy" book (Ch.17... "Identifying True Worshipers in the Time of the End"):

"...All of us must keep in expectation of the fulfillment of God’s promises......In our day Michael, the Great Prince, has been standing in behalf of God’s people for decades. Soon now he will go into action as the divinely appointed executioner of this system of things. When he does so, where will we stand?"

"Jesus called it his “presence” (...pa·rou·si´a), when he would rule as King in heaven...... This time period is also called “the last days” and “the time of the end.” .....Ever since that period began in 1914, Michael has been standing as King in heaven."

"Who are “the ones having insight” today? Again, the evidence points to the same “holy ones of the Supreme One.” After all, who but the faithful anointed remnant had the insight to discern that Michael, the Great Prince, began standing as King in 1914? By preaching such truths as this...as well as by maintaining Christian conduct...they have been “shining as illuminators” in this spiritually bedarkened world."


Of course the "holy one's" seem to have a "standing" as well...

". By the end of the foretold 1,290 days, the holy ones were well on the way to a cleansed and restored standing. In September 1922,..."

"They were given outstanding insight into God’s Word, being empowered to “rove about” in it and, guided by holy spirit, to unlock age-old mysteries. Jehovah cleansed them and made them shine spiritually, as brightly as stars. Consequently, they brought many into a righteous standing with Jehovah God."

Rubbish.

.02,

gogh

Hi gogh! That;s right! It's standing in Kingdom power, not sitting down which implies more of an enthronement! :shocked:

You are right. Someone else just mentioned that to me recently. I guess when you are dealing with something which is invisible, you can make it up as you go.

Thanks RV. I did see it from the thread it was posted on when catching up today.

If Jesus began ruling in 1914,why do JW's believe that Satan is the ruler of the world? Who is currently ruling the world?

Warm Christian Love
Bangalore

QUOTE:
If Jesus began ruling in 1914,why do JW's believe that Satan is the ruler of the world? Who is currently ruling the world?

Warm Christian Love
Bangalore


>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Hi Dear brother
That is great reasoning on the scriptures,
I am going to add that statement to where I always say,

""Show me the blessings from this Kingdom rule !
The setting up of the Kingdom is to make all wars cease . and what have we had since 1914 "" :confused:

The WT has put the cart before the horse. Running almost a century ahead of the real fullfillment of prophecy. we were warned that this would take place in 2Thess 2:1-12.........
Ps 46 :9 -Isa 9:6 - Mic 4:3 :read:

love susanna :grouphug: