06-24-2009, 02:11 AM
From a forum Thread - Jehovah's Witnesses
marken, a Jehovah Witness, wrote: ...However, I would like to answer your questions from my point of view. Since I dedicated my life to Jehovah, I have seen religious groups in our area who do attack the Watchtower Society and Jehovah's Witnesses in general by printed material. Some has been very vitrolic. I have never had any handed to me that does not indicate strongly that the writer of the material is convinced that Jehovah's Witnesses are not the true religion /
and put us in hell as wicked persons.
Dsciple> (1.) Christian Churches are not taught to condem anyone. Jesus does that. We are to judge them as being wrong (by using a bible passage that says they are in error). ByYour slanted assertion of your usage of words there, would make you hard pressed to prove what you said and by the way you phrased it. You fail to remember that the Watchtower has been attacking the Church since their very beginning. That was how the Church first heard about them! They proclaimed they were not with Jesus followers. They said they were not with his Church, ('Christendom' as you call it)! Jesus would have given them the same prince able that he gave John in Luke 9:49 Master," said John, "we saw a man driving out demons in your name and we tried to stop him, because he is not one of us."
50"Do not stop him," Jesus said, "for whoever is not against you is for you."
He could have just as easily said, "for he who is against you is not for you."
The scriptures clearly condemns, anyone from attacking his Church that His son died for! Jesus doesn't agree with the WT 'hate champagne against the Church that Jesus and the Holy Spirit established.
The WT twisted NWTscriptures, wants us to believe: "To him be glory in the church and in Christ Jesus until the devil 'overcomes it and the Moonies the Jim Jones, the Mormons, and the Watchtower comes to save you."
The bible says in Ephesians 3:24, to him be glory in the church and in Christ Jesus throughout all generations, for ever and ever! Amen.
How you do error for parroting your Masters who say the Church has been "overcome."
Matthew 16:18, And I tell you that you are Peter, and on this rock I will build my church, and the gates of Hades will not overcome it.
If you refuse to accept his promise here, tell me what other promise he made that you can not cling too?
No power in heaven or earth could overcome what God has purposed to be. The last person that makes it through the Tribulation will be representing what is left of the Church. How you do error.
How you do error for parroting your Masters by saying that you are the only true religion. There is one Baptism, one God, one Spirit one religion," "one religion???" There you go again. When was the last time you deviated from 1 Corinthians 4:6?
Besides Your not (of) in the 'faith'. Your own Masters tell you that only 144000 can be said to be of the faith. I suppose that leaves 99.99% of you disqualified (2 Cor. 13:5). Is that why you are "forced" to get away from the word 'faith and use the word 'religion instead?' You parrot the WT erroneous word 'religion.'
They tell you that Christendom is of the devil, so how could you possibly say you are Christian and condemn the Church? The true 'religion' is the 'universal body of the Christian faith.' "The Christian Church which makes up the body of believers.' There are two bodies in the world, believers and non-believers, 1 Jn 2:15, James 4:4. Oh how your trough of books have bewitched you.
Oh I would be the first to admit that the 'Christian community would all agree that you follow a false prophet, Following a false Christ, (an angel,) and by the Wt teaching that 144000 will be Mediating 'with' Jesus. Telling you that only 144000 people have Jesus as their mediator. You yourself have admitted a while back that you don't partake in the Lord's Supper because Jesus is not your Mediator.' 'Because you are not justified.' You r taught this, and that only these 144000, are 'redeemed' from the earth, (mentioned in Rev.) because only these are born again because they know God and Jesus are righteous. That is why only they are born again you are taught, (because 'they know.)' Oh you say, that you know, but when you are put in position to prove that you 'admit' that they are righteous, a 'spirit' within you kicks in, and you deny that 'you know,' (as Jesus Christ is symbolically passed before you during your Communion of the Lord's Supper,) see 1 John 2:29.
If you know that he is righteous, you know that everyone who does what is right has been born of him.
I could just go on and on as to why the Christian community (is disgusted with you, but ) still loves you, but 'hates' your false gospel and the strange fire your Masters offer.
itsTrue1Jn513
Jun 18, 2009 -- 10:18AM, marken wrote: You say many Christians are witnessing to Jehovah's Witnesses, but I can truthfully say that they are not witnessing to me at my door.
Disciple> Why should Christians believe in what you teach from your “book†studies? You even say you are not a son of God as per John 1:12, Col. 2:6, Gal. 3:26? We are son of darkness or sons of light.
Where does that place you? Yes, why would we expect you to be led by the Spirit of God when you admit you are not a son ‘of God? Non-believing Jews are not led by His Spirit Why, because they have not received him. They reject Jesus Christ to be who He says He is. Only sons of God have received, (believe in him). These are the only ones led by His Spirit. Only these receiving Jesus in their life have the Spirit of God in them.
1John 4:4 You are of God, little children, and have overcome them, because He who is in you is greater than he who is in the world
15Whoever confesses that Jesus is the Son of God, God abides in him, and he in God.
As we all can see with these passages that a WT “book†study†is not well thought out. It’s dogma doesn’t classify it as theology.
Galatians 5:18 But if you are led by the Spirit, you are not under the law.
What does it take to be led by His Spirit? One must be a son of God. It goes back to John 1:12 and Gal. 3:26. Your “book†studies say 99.99% you are not sons God. Well, that puts you along side of those who are under, the Old Law. This puts you ‘in the strict biblical sense, ‘in error.’
Romans 8:14 For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, these are sons of God.
Galatians 3:26 For you are all sons of God through faith in Christ Jesus. (only144000?’)
Romans 3:22 even the righteousness of God, through faith in Jesus Christ, to all and on all who believe. For there is no difference; (‘no distinction’!)
Colossians 2:6As you therefore have received Christ Jesus the Lord, so walk in Him,
Yes each is a son of God.
Marken, Mormons come to our door steps too, so should we read what God has "already" said about a matter in our bibles or should we take their ‘books’ and just, 'pray' and see if we get a 'burning in the "busum?' Should we read what God has ‘already said about a matter, or feed from the trough that they say we must read from, if we want salvation?â€
Christians are not to go after strange fire. Both your Masters, and theirs have been proved to be false prophets, and have been shown the love of Christ so, so many times, but 'strange fire coming from your "book" studies have bewitched you. Gal. 3:1-14, 22, 24, 26. How else can one be at peace with God, ('Right with God') if not by accepting His free gift? Romans 5:1, 9, 1 Jn. 3:7. What are these passages saying about you, (because of your allowing "book" studies, to tell you that you are not justified by what Jesus has 'already' done for you??? Don't you see that the spirit behind the WT wants you to fail? Marken: Have you failed the test by rejecting the fellowship that Jesus wants with you? By failing to ask God to send the Spirit of Galatians 4:6 into your heart? Have you allowed a spirit of error that’s placed itself in ‘book’ studies to cause you to ‘fail the test.’
Examine yourselves as to whether you are in the faith. Test yourselves. Do you not know yourselves, that Jesus Christ is in you?—unless indeed you are disqualified.
“Disqualified???†Yes! Romans 8:1, There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.
If you are not in Christ, then why do you suppose that is? Regardless of the reason this verse tells you that the ‘trough’ you have been feeding from, (leaves you in condemnation). “That is a deadly position to be in. Marken what spirit would want to leave 99.99% of Watchtower followers in condemnation?
OKJ: Examine yourselves, whether ye be in the faith; prove your own selves. Know ye not your own selves, how that Jesus Christ is in you, except ye be reprobates? The spirit you (unknowingly) follow must surely be laughing at your predicament. I love you to much not to plead with you my friend to reexamining the position your “books†have placed you in.
By making you think that you are not in Christ and Him not being in you, (Rev. 3:20) causes you to rely on your ‘own righteous.’ You are allowing a spirit of error in "Books," as a means, to reject the Spirit of Christ. It tells you that only 144000 people are in Christ and that you are not worthy to be in (union with) Christ. That is a teaching that is not of God! (Rev. 3:20, Galatians 4:19, Colossians 1:27, 28). "For what ever reason†"its wrong."
I have mentioned this true before and will continue to do so. This same spirit that has betrayed you, has hidden the Mystery from you.
Col. 1:27 to whom God was pleased to make known what is the riches of the glory of this mystery among the Gentiles, which is Christ in you, the hope of glory: 28 whom we proclaim, admonishing every man and teaching every man in all wisdom, that we may present every man perfect in Christ;
Did Paul get his numbers all screwed up there???†What’s with all the, Month end "Quotas?" The WT has you (unknowingly) striving after your own righteousness. You know what God thinks of my righteousness don’t you? The same as He does your. They are as ‘dirty rags’ in the eyes of God. 'Wake up." Stop falling from His grace, (Titus 3:5).
After your readying of Acts 13:26, 1Jn. 513, what excuse will you have on that day when the Lord ask you: " Why didn't you believe what I wrote in those clear passages that I left for you? What was so hard to understand what I 'promised?' And did I not give you ears?' (Rev. 2:11). Tell me, What did I tell you in 1 John 3:7???" Who did you choose to believe and ‘Why?’ Why?’
"Why did you instead, allow men to teach you that you were not righteous in my eyes?"
What was so hard to understand Romans 8:1??? How can anyone be in the truth when they are told they are not in(union with) Him???
Watchtower "book" studies program the reader by 'inserting' into a verse, something that is simply not there. You stumble by not adhering to 1 Cor. 4:6: ("Do not go beyond what is written").
And by the way, you used the word 'hate.' There could be a 'radical group that would use that language, but not mainline Christianity.
"You are only given ‘two’ choices."
When ever you happen to look into a mirror, we all will be praying that you will soon get tired of seeing what is looking back at you, what the Watchtower has painted you out to be..
Hebrews 12:5And ye have forgotten the exhortation which speaketh unto you as unto children, My son, despise not thou the chastening of the Lord, nor faint when thou art rebuked of him:
6For whom the Lord loveth he chasteneth, and scourgeth every son whom he receiveth.
7If ye endure chastening, God dealeth with you as with sons; for what son is he whom the father chasteneth not? 8But if ye be without chastisement, whereof all are partakers, then are ye bastards, and not sons.
disciple
marken, a Jehovah Witness, wrote: ...However, I would like to answer your questions from my point of view. Since I dedicated my life to Jehovah, I have seen religious groups in our area who do attack the Watchtower Society and Jehovah's Witnesses in general by printed material. Some has been very vitrolic. I have never had any handed to me that does not indicate strongly that the writer of the material is convinced that Jehovah's Witnesses are not the true religion /
and put us in hell as wicked persons.
Dsciple> (1.) Christian Churches are not taught to condem anyone. Jesus does that. We are to judge them as being wrong (by using a bible passage that says they are in error). ByYour slanted assertion of your usage of words there, would make you hard pressed to prove what you said and by the way you phrased it. You fail to remember that the Watchtower has been attacking the Church since their very beginning. That was how the Church first heard about them! They proclaimed they were not with Jesus followers. They said they were not with his Church, ('Christendom' as you call it)! Jesus would have given them the same prince able that he gave John in Luke 9:49 Master," said John, "we saw a man driving out demons in your name and we tried to stop him, because he is not one of us."
50"Do not stop him," Jesus said, "for whoever is not against you is for you."
He could have just as easily said, "for he who is against you is not for you."
The scriptures clearly condemns, anyone from attacking his Church that His son died for! Jesus doesn't agree with the WT 'hate champagne against the Church that Jesus and the Holy Spirit established.
The WT twisted NWTscriptures, wants us to believe: "To him be glory in the church and in Christ Jesus until the devil 'overcomes it and the Moonies the Jim Jones, the Mormons, and the Watchtower comes to save you."
The bible says in Ephesians 3:24, to him be glory in the church and in Christ Jesus throughout all generations, for ever and ever! Amen.
How you do error for parroting your Masters who say the Church has been "overcome."
Matthew 16:18, And I tell you that you are Peter, and on this rock I will build my church, and the gates of Hades will not overcome it.
If you refuse to accept his promise here, tell me what other promise he made that you can not cling too?
No power in heaven or earth could overcome what God has purposed to be. The last person that makes it through the Tribulation will be representing what is left of the Church. How you do error.
How you do error for parroting your Masters by saying that you are the only true religion. There is one Baptism, one God, one Spirit one religion," "one religion???" There you go again. When was the last time you deviated from 1 Corinthians 4:6?
Besides Your not (of) in the 'faith'. Your own Masters tell you that only 144000 can be said to be of the faith. I suppose that leaves 99.99% of you disqualified (2 Cor. 13:5). Is that why you are "forced" to get away from the word 'faith and use the word 'religion instead?' You parrot the WT erroneous word 'religion.'
They tell you that Christendom is of the devil, so how could you possibly say you are Christian and condemn the Church? The true 'religion' is the 'universal body of the Christian faith.' "The Christian Church which makes up the body of believers.' There are two bodies in the world, believers and non-believers, 1 Jn 2:15, James 4:4. Oh how your trough of books have bewitched you.
Oh I would be the first to admit that the 'Christian community would all agree that you follow a false prophet, Following a false Christ, (an angel,) and by the Wt teaching that 144000 will be Mediating 'with' Jesus. Telling you that only 144000 people have Jesus as their mediator. You yourself have admitted a while back that you don't partake in the Lord's Supper because Jesus is not your Mediator.' 'Because you are not justified.' You r taught this, and that only these 144000, are 'redeemed' from the earth, (mentioned in Rev.) because only these are born again because they know God and Jesus are righteous. That is why only they are born again you are taught, (because 'they know.)' Oh you say, that you know, but when you are put in position to prove that you 'admit' that they are righteous, a 'spirit' within you kicks in, and you deny that 'you know,' (as Jesus Christ is symbolically passed before you during your Communion of the Lord's Supper,) see 1 John 2:29.
If you know that he is righteous, you know that everyone who does what is right has been born of him.
I could just go on and on as to why the Christian community (is disgusted with you, but ) still loves you, but 'hates' your false gospel and the strange fire your Masters offer.
itsTrue1Jn513
Jun 18, 2009 -- 10:18AM, marken wrote: You say many Christians are witnessing to Jehovah's Witnesses, but I can truthfully say that they are not witnessing to me at my door.
Disciple> Why should Christians believe in what you teach from your “book†studies? You even say you are not a son of God as per John 1:12, Col. 2:6, Gal. 3:26? We are son of darkness or sons of light.
Where does that place you? Yes, why would we expect you to be led by the Spirit of God when you admit you are not a son ‘of God? Non-believing Jews are not led by His Spirit Why, because they have not received him. They reject Jesus Christ to be who He says He is. Only sons of God have received, (believe in him). These are the only ones led by His Spirit. Only these receiving Jesus in their life have the Spirit of God in them.
1John 4:4 You are of God, little children, and have overcome them, because He who is in you is greater than he who is in the world
15Whoever confesses that Jesus is the Son of God, God abides in him, and he in God.
As we all can see with these passages that a WT “book†study†is not well thought out. It’s dogma doesn’t classify it as theology.
Galatians 5:18 But if you are led by the Spirit, you are not under the law.
What does it take to be led by His Spirit? One must be a son of God. It goes back to John 1:12 and Gal. 3:26. Your “book†studies say 99.99% you are not sons God. Well, that puts you along side of those who are under, the Old Law. This puts you ‘in the strict biblical sense, ‘in error.’
Romans 8:14 For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, these are sons of God.
Galatians 3:26 For you are all sons of God through faith in Christ Jesus. (only144000?’)
Romans 3:22 even the righteousness of God, through faith in Jesus Christ, to all and on all who believe. For there is no difference; (‘no distinction’!)
Colossians 2:6As you therefore have received Christ Jesus the Lord, so walk in Him,
Yes each is a son of God.
Marken, Mormons come to our door steps too, so should we read what God has "already" said about a matter in our bibles or should we take their ‘books’ and just, 'pray' and see if we get a 'burning in the "busum?' Should we read what God has ‘already said about a matter, or feed from the trough that they say we must read from, if we want salvation?â€
Christians are not to go after strange fire. Both your Masters, and theirs have been proved to be false prophets, and have been shown the love of Christ so, so many times, but 'strange fire coming from your "book" studies have bewitched you. Gal. 3:1-14, 22, 24, 26. How else can one be at peace with God, ('Right with God') if not by accepting His free gift? Romans 5:1, 9, 1 Jn. 3:7. What are these passages saying about you, (because of your allowing "book" studies, to tell you that you are not justified by what Jesus has 'already' done for you??? Don't you see that the spirit behind the WT wants you to fail? Marken: Have you failed the test by rejecting the fellowship that Jesus wants with you? By failing to ask God to send the Spirit of Galatians 4:6 into your heart? Have you allowed a spirit of error that’s placed itself in ‘book’ studies to cause you to ‘fail the test.’
Examine yourselves as to whether you are in the faith. Test yourselves. Do you not know yourselves, that Jesus Christ is in you?—unless indeed you are disqualified.
“Disqualified???†Yes! Romans 8:1, There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.
If you are not in Christ, then why do you suppose that is? Regardless of the reason this verse tells you that the ‘trough’ you have been feeding from, (leaves you in condemnation). “That is a deadly position to be in. Marken what spirit would want to leave 99.99% of Watchtower followers in condemnation?
OKJ: Examine yourselves, whether ye be in the faith; prove your own selves. Know ye not your own selves, how that Jesus Christ is in you, except ye be reprobates? The spirit you (unknowingly) follow must surely be laughing at your predicament. I love you to much not to plead with you my friend to reexamining the position your “books†have placed you in.
By making you think that you are not in Christ and Him not being in you, (Rev. 3:20) causes you to rely on your ‘own righteous.’ You are allowing a spirit of error in "Books," as a means, to reject the Spirit of Christ. It tells you that only 144000 people are in Christ and that you are not worthy to be in (union with) Christ. That is a teaching that is not of God! (Rev. 3:20, Galatians 4:19, Colossians 1:27, 28). "For what ever reason†"its wrong."
I have mentioned this true before and will continue to do so. This same spirit that has betrayed you, has hidden the Mystery from you.
Col. 1:27 to whom God was pleased to make known what is the riches of the glory of this mystery among the Gentiles, which is Christ in you, the hope of glory: 28 whom we proclaim, admonishing every man and teaching every man in all wisdom, that we may present every man perfect in Christ;
Did Paul get his numbers all screwed up there???†What’s with all the, Month end "Quotas?" The WT has you (unknowingly) striving after your own righteousness. You know what God thinks of my righteousness don’t you? The same as He does your. They are as ‘dirty rags’ in the eyes of God. 'Wake up." Stop falling from His grace, (Titus 3:5).
After your readying of Acts 13:26, 1Jn. 513, what excuse will you have on that day when the Lord ask you: " Why didn't you believe what I wrote in those clear passages that I left for you? What was so hard to understand what I 'promised?' And did I not give you ears?' (Rev. 2:11). Tell me, What did I tell you in 1 John 3:7???" Who did you choose to believe and ‘Why?’ Why?’
"Why did you instead, allow men to teach you that you were not righteous in my eyes?"
What was so hard to understand Romans 8:1??? How can anyone be in the truth when they are told they are not in(union with) Him???
Watchtower "book" studies program the reader by 'inserting' into a verse, something that is simply not there. You stumble by not adhering to 1 Cor. 4:6: ("Do not go beyond what is written").
And by the way, you used the word 'hate.' There could be a 'radical group that would use that language, but not mainline Christianity.
"You are only given ‘two’ choices."
When ever you happen to look into a mirror, we all will be praying that you will soon get tired of seeing what is looking back at you, what the Watchtower has painted you out to be..
Hebrews 12:5And ye have forgotten the exhortation which speaketh unto you as unto children, My son, despise not thou the chastening of the Lord, nor faint when thou art rebuked of him:
6For whom the Lord loveth he chasteneth, and scourgeth every son whom he receiveth.
7If ye endure chastening, God dealeth with you as with sons; for what son is he whom the father chasteneth not? 8But if ye be without chastisement, whereof all are partakers, then are ye bastards, and not sons.
disciple