Prophecy. Since time immeroable men have had inspiration from the Gods. Divine entities, using mortal hands to dictate their plans and promises. The problem that I find with most prophesies is that most are based on two things. Human nature: Turmoil, warfare and chaos. And Human Hope: Peace, serenity and a retirement from our current stte of affairs, whatever they may be at the time. Most prophecies, from the priestesses at Delphi to the Bible code can be looked at, and left to interpretation of metaphor.
Prophecy is what we call something when we interpret it as something we can see building up. An intuition, if you will. Or, when a religious text or person says that something is coming. Or that they have seen it. For instance, Mormons have modern day prophets who tell them messages from God and his angels. Prophecy, for the most part, is something that grips us in fear, or gives us something to hold on to.
To me, I don't believe in true prophecy, but I do believe there is something trying to guide us. But prophecy means a one defined destiny, meaning that freewill is an illusion. We become slaves to that which might not even happen in our lifetime. If at all. And if it does, is it truly divine, or is it men leading history to create a self-fulfilling prophecy, as some have tried to do in the past?:read:
Hi serafina
These are Jesus' words at Luke 17:25...
" First, however, he must undergo many sufferings and be rejected by this generation. Moreover, just as it occurred in the days of Noah, so it will be also in the days of the Son of man:..."
Jesus believed in true prophecy.
Christian love,
gogh
Prophecy is vital to our faith, in both its past fulfillments and future hopes. The problems come from those who try to fulfill prophecy before its time.
To me, I don't believe in true prophecy, but I do believe there is something trying to guide us. But prophecy means a one defined destiny, meaning that freewill is an illusion. We become slaves to that which might not even happen in our lifetime. If at all. And if it does, is it truly divine, or is it men leading history to create a self-fulfilling prophecy, as some have tried to do in the past?Read
Great points serafina.
I certainly agree that we are all here being guided by the Spirit of Truth that Christ promised he would pour out upon all truth seekers beginning at Pentecost of the first century and continuing on until our day. That is more important than clinging to a prophecy that may never be fulfilled.
I believe also that a person may put faith in Christ based on fear if he believes that a certain end time prophecy is near fulfillment and he better get his act together, lest he be squashed at the imminent arrival of the Son. Rather than imitating the Son based on fear, we should imitate the Son based on love, not because we are awaiting in fearful expectation of the fulfillment of a prophecy.
Look at all the Christians over the centuries that thought the end was coming in their day based on events occurring in their time. Even the people of the mid thirteen hundreds that saw perhaps as much as 75 million persons perish due to the Bubonic plague, thought that these untimely deaths were in fulfillment of prophecy and that Christ's arrival was imminent. It never happened.
So too, the WT felt that the 20 to 50 million deaths during 1918-1919 due to the Spanish influenza was prophetic of the imminent arrival of Christ. This too ended in failure. Christ never did arrive. The problem with prophecy is that people try to make the prophecies fit to their own times and their own expectations.
It is interesting that the book of Isa 2:2-4 indicates that the world's changing to a peaceful one will come about by learning to do war no more. This learning will result in an applied knowledge. They will beat their swords into plowshares and their spears into pruning shears. They will LEARN WAR NO MORE. Christ will only return when man will have, upon their own free will, decide to learn war no more. This makes sense because prophecy is ironclad and it robs men of their free will.
In the meantime, rather than worrying about or wrangling with others about what we feel is the correct interpretation of prophecy, we are better off being the kinds of persons that Christ showed us we should be. This world will be won over to a heaven on earth, only through the metamorphosis of each individual as they willlingly choose to do things Christ's way.
Love,
Paul
Hi Paul
Re: " Christ will only return when man will have, upon their own free will, decide to learn war no more."
This teaching of yours seem to contradict this scripture...
Daniel 2:44...
“And in the days of those kings the God of heaven will set up a kingdom that will never be brought to ruin. And the kingdom itself will not be passed on to any other people. It will crush and put an end to all these kingdoms, and it itself will stand to times indefinite; forasmuch as you beheld that out of the mountain a stone was cut not by hands, and [that] it crushed the iron, the copper, the molded clay, the silver and the gold. The grand God himself has made known to the king what is to occur after this. And the dream is reliable, and the interpretation of it is trustworthy.â€
Based on this scripture, Paul; your teaching is not trustworthy.
"And the dream is reliable, and the interpretation of it is trustworthy.â€
Christian love and concern* (*for what you teach),
gogh
My point Gogh is that every person that pointed to their times as the end because they believed that the scriptures applied to their day, ended in failure. It has nothing to do with contradicting scripture. It has to do with reality. So far, the nations have not gone crashing down into oblivion. That has not happened because a God of love will never arbitrarily slaughter billions just so the scripture will be fulfilled. You will never be able to think out of the box as long as you shackle your brain to the scriptures. You have yet to discern the reasonings behind what I am writing because all of your logic is tied to the scriptures.
I am not trying to teach as you so sarcastically wrote. I am offering an alternative to the strict and stifling fundamentalism of 100% belief in the scriptures. Each one of us should be imitating Christ. If God were to send his Son and the angels to slaughter the nations of the world, what would that teach? You dare defy me and I will squash all you billions like a bug. Where does our free will enter? If God just slaughters most of mankind the message is: either obey me or die. Wow! I just cannot wait to worship a God that will crush me out of existence if I do not cowtow to his bloodthirsty whims. Anyone that would be left over after such a slaughter would have their love called into question because such ones would likely be serving God out of fear. They would be afraid to dare defy a God that would smash them into non-existence.
Paul
Hey guy's just a side note..
It seems as thou any and all scripture is up to each individuals interpretation.  Whether or not that interp is correct or not, time will tell and the scriptural tests must be applied.
I for one beleive that 100% of scripture is acurate. Yet I also beleive that 100% of science is acruate. the diff is.  I know that science is only an exact science for the moment until more time passes and theory are proven or disproven. (you cannot know what you don't know)
I hold the same stance with scripture.  unless the variuos meaning are understood to each script or it is understood that only one meaning is given Taking to firm of a stance with our limited knowledge might prove futile.
This system will end when Jehovah says for it to end no sooner or later. the replacement system is what we need to focus on.. and how we will be part of it.  It is interesting to speculate as we have been instructed to keep searching, but it is second to learning how to Love.
( the script says the A new kingdom will replace the current kingdom) I beleive no more no less..  pls correct me if I am wrong. I believe some will die as a result due to what happens when two kings go to battle. how many who knows.
Prophecy is vital to our faith, in both its past fulfillments and future hopes.
I know I pick on you too much, Jesh, but I couldn't agree less with this statement. Prophecy is not vital to our faith. In fact, concentrating on prophecy steers us away from what should truly be our focus: the doing of God's will.
Let me ask you this: On judgment day, could you picture someone being brought before the judgment seat and, after God goes over his or her past behavior and sees that this person was exemplary in conduct and faith and love and all Christian principles, God saying, "I'm sorry. You didn't know what Revelation meant. I condemn you to death."
If you cannot picture that happening, then you must agree that prophecy is not "vital."
Howdy Paul
Thank you for your response.
Re: "..as you so sarcastically wrote."
I was not being sarcastic.
Re: "I am offering an alternative to the strict and stifling fundamentalism of 100% belief in the scriptures."
My opinion is that a statement such as this leans heavily toward trying to instruct/teach your conclusions.
You seem to have me pegged pretty good. I'll re-enforce your conclusion with scripture I heartily agree with...
Psalm 119:160...
"The substance of your word is truth,
And every righteous judicial decision of yours is to time indefinite."
James 1:16...
" Do not be misled, my beloved brothers. Every good gift and every perfect present is from above, for it comes down from the Father of the [celestial] lights, and with him there is not a variation of the turning of the shadow. Because he willed it, he brought us forth by the word of truth, for us to be certain firstfruits of his creatures."
The Holy Bible is a good gift...even a perfect present, imo.
Take care Paul,
gogh
Another thing now that I am more awake to think through my own rantings and questionings, is didn't Jesus say something like leave tomorrow for tomorrow and think about today instead? Cetainly not an actual quote, but I don't know the Bible enough to find the passge I wanted. Maybe we shouldn't be spending time worrying about what is coming, just live life the best way we can based on that which we know.:read:
Matthew 6:33...
“Keep on, then, seeking first the kingdom and his righteousness, and all these [other] things will be added to YOU. So, never be anxious about the next day, for the next day will have its own anxieties. Sufficient for each day is its own badness."
... didn't Jesus say something like leave tomorrow for tomorrow and think about today instead? .:read:
I think that's a quote from Jesus Christ Superstar. "What's the Buzz? Tell me What's ahappening"
Perhaps you are thinking about what Jesus said in Matt. 6:34 seraphina?
34 So, never be anxious about the next day, for the next day will have its own anxieties. Sufficient for each day is its own badness.
So WHAT should we be concerned about ...?
In verse 33 ...
33 “Keep on, then, seeking first the kingdom and his righteousness, and all these [other] things will be added to YOU.
So many times we have read this verse ... and yet what exactly would it mean to 'seek the kingdom first' ...
Look to Jesus as our example ... HE sought the kingdom first and showed us HOW to do it ...
By not allowing room for the Devil and the things he would support to be a part of our lives ...
By showing LOVE to as MANY people as we can ...
By speaking to others about God and the love he has for us and we for him and the hope he offers us ...
By doing to others as we would have them to do us ...
By ... in a NUTSHELL ...
Showing LOVE to God and to our fellowman in ALL aspects of our lives to BEST of our ability and understanding ...
By HAVING ... faith and hope as added ingredients ...
Jehovah can work with us if we do ... and the 'vessel' he will 'mold' us into will be very beautiful indeed ...
Hope this helps ... with love your sis BR ... :sheepy: :bouncyhearts:
Prophecy to me consists of several things: Faith, the willingness to look past our own interpretation and courage. I do agree that it shouldn't be dwelled on, but I still think we should be aware. The second coming, in a lot of cases, is considered as much a Christian belief as the commandment to love thy neighbour. Why? Because it reminds us that when the bad times come, and we feel alone, :hug: and we feel terrified of the death around us :reaper:, not to fall for the false light that happens to come along and seems to hold the answer. :angelnot: not To have faith that our father and his son will come for us. :pray: To lead us out. I does give hope, and yes, there are those who try to fulfill prophecy, but no man can choose the time. Ironically it's probably when we stop trying that it may happen. I dunno, just my thoughts on a very early morning.:coffeeread:
It's really late for me and I can't sleep tonight, so I'm going to share a radical idea I have, ok?
He has told us the end from the beginning.
Well the curse on Adam 'from dust you are to dust you will return' Daniel 2:35"...became like chaff...and the wind carried them away..." reminds me of dust...
I'm beginning to see the whole race of mankind embodied in Adam, slowly growing old and dying, returning to the dust.
Jah does not need to add any more curses on man, we are already heading to extinction.
As the firstborn of Egypt dies, the firstborn of Israel is made alive...
Digging