Paradise Cafe Discussions - A Place For Bible Research And Christian Encouragement

Darn, I have to go to work.
Acts 1:24, 2:21 and 2:47 have me pondering. Acts 5:9 and 7:60 are also worth reading for context.

Matthew 4:4

But he replied, 'Scripture says:

Human beings live not on bread alone,
but on every word
that comes from the mouth of God.

That scripture Jesus quoted to Satan was taken from Deut 8: 3 which reads:



He humbled you, he made you feel hunger, he fed you manna which neither you nor your ancestors had ever known,to make you understand that human beings live not on bread alone but on every word that comes from the mouth of Yahweh. JB (Catholic Version)

I don't think there is any problem with slipping in the name of God when it is obvious it was used in the original scriptures being quoted?. :thinking: As we see above, the original scripture had God's name. The self same scripture which was quoted by Jesus, in this NT translation, didn't. :thinking: Should that be the case?Somehow I find it hard to believe that the divine name was never to be used by Christians at all?Also as Jesus made that name ( and character of God) manifest to all those listening to him, ( although I imagine they all knew that name, as they were Jews) why should we now feel that it is wrong to pray also to God using his name ( which was given to mankind, I presume, to use :thinking:) Also, as Jesus is our mediator through whom we pray to get to God, then doesn't that in itself show that in using the name of Jesus his Son, then we need to differentiate him from his Father, Jehovah, Yahweh etc etc in order to reach him? Yahweh/ Jehovah/ Geova/and however else it is pronounced in other languages, I believe, should be used, and if the scripture calls for it to be used in the Christian Greek Scriptures,because the original scripture indicates such, then it should definitely be written into those NT scriptures.If the name is added without valid reasons (as NWT obviously does, in certain cases) then it is literally going beyond what was written. I'm happy I know both those sacred names. Lots of Christians don't. :( Lots of Christians pray to Mary!:huh: Where's the scriptural backing for that?:dontknow: Even if they pray to Jesus, do they indicate that their prayer is being offered to his Father, through him? I didn't, when I was a Catholic! If people think Jesus is God, then who is he mediating to? Can't understand that?Having both names, assures us that we will be listened to, first by the Son, Jesus, our mediator, through whom we offer our prayers in order for them to be heard, and then by his Father, Yahweh. I don't believe God's name is being overused. :dontknow: On the contrary, I suspect most people in this world have never even heard of it, and therefore have never used it in prayer.:( I do think though, that the use of the divine name could be abused, and bandied about without due honour and respect. :( But I imagine that's because most people using it in this way, don't have any idea about the true identity of the one behind that name. And that's because his divine qualities were never made manifest to them. :( I think that's sad. So many Bibles don't have that name written in them at all, so how can those reading them understand who the true God is? :thinking: :read: If all they read is 'LORD' how can they ever feel a close bond to what in reality is only a title, with no personality!? Regardless of much of what I dislike about the WT society, I am, nevertheless grateful that I learned that name and the personage behind it.:) To me, it was the best revelation I had ever discovered! And I still love using it! After 25 years! The only change being, that I now use the name of his son Jesus, much more than I ever did before!:heartbeat: Sorry if this was too long, got carried away!
Agape,
Grateful :giverose:

Hello Grateful-

I can understand your appreciation for God's actual name, but when praying why not follow Jesus' instructions. Who did he pray to? No, I don't mean the name of the person he prayed to, I mean who was the person he prayed to. Who did he say we should pray to? If you look at Matt. 6:9, Jesus says: "After this manner therefore pray ye: Our Father which art in heaven, Hallowed be thy name." He didn't instruct us to pray to Jehovah, he told us to pray to Our Father. It's not about the illustrious name or the usage of it, it's about the relationship. Can you imagine going up to your parents and calling them by their given names? They might not appreciate it. In fact, they might imagine that it showed disrespect on your part.

In any case, that's who Jesus prayed to. (John 11:41; 17:1,5) I follow his example and pray to my Heavenly Father. And that way I don't even have to figure out if the pronounciation is correct!

Molly

Yes, I do understand what you are saying, Molly, but he also went on to say ' may your name be 'held holy' which to me signifies that all should know and understand that name each time they pray, according to Jesus words. Most people don't know that name, so how can they comprehend that it's a name to be held 'holy'? I can't imagine for one moment that if we pray ' heavenly Father, Jehovah God, whose NAME is the most glorious in all the earth, through the merciful and loving sacrifice of your precious son, Jesus etc etc, that he will be offended by it? Each time we pray, God's holy name should be a constant thought while praying.It is only through that illustrious name, that His kingdom will come. :thinking: Jesus said 'when you pray' we were to hold that name holy,so therefore we should be aware, each time we pray,that God's name be honoured.We don't worship some vague incomprehensable entity. :dontknow: Our heavenly Father, who has a distinct and holy name set apart from that of others, including his Son, is the one we are actually praying to, and if we decide to include that name in our prayers because we hold it in esteem,we are only following Jesus words in Matthew 6:9. :heartbeat: I somehow can't imagine that God will be offended by our sincere approach through Jesus to reach him.:thinking: Whatever pronunciation we use! :thinking::heartbeat: I imagine, that if a person didn't actually know the true name of their father, but only ever called him 'father' all their lives, because that name was never revealed to them, then it would be difficult for others to comprehend who their father actually was without some kind of name behind the identity?:thinking: ( Tom .Mr. Tom Mr Tom Robbins. Mr Robbins etc etc) If someone was to ask them 'who is your father? 'What's his name? How could he answer? I don't know. It's 'Father' that's all I know. That's all I was taught to say. :thinking: Although we might not use the name of our earthly father( many others do though, so we hear it continually) we know his name well, and associate him with the name that differntiates him from all the other 'fathers' we know.As there are so many 'gods' who are worshipped today, then I believe it is important that our God, the true God of the universe, who made his name known to mankind, whose name was written down numerous times by men born of God's spirit, whose name should be held in the highest esteem according to jesus words,should know that he alone,whose name is Jehovah/Yahweh or whatever pronunciation we use, has our complete and undivided worship.:heartbeat: No one should feel shamed into not using it because some believe it's unneccessary or unscriptural or overused. Each must follow their individual conscience and understanding in all things relating to God. :heartbeat: I follow mine.:heartbeat:

Christian love to all,
Grateful :giverose:

Thank you for your response, Grateful-

I didn't intend that one should purposely remain ignorant of God's name. For most of us it's too late for that anyway. And one would certainly use the name in respectful discussions about his will and purposes, so that's not what I meant either. But if you were going to introduce one of your parents wouldn't you preface it with the most important part - your relationship with that person, such as: This is my Dad, Mr. Jones, or This is my Mom Janet Jones. It's just natural in our private conversations with our God to use the familiar relationship introduction of Father, as we were invited by Jesus to do.

So, I no longer address my prayers to Jehovah, instead I accept that He wants me to recognise that I am to Him His daughter and to have the freedom to come to Him in that more familiar and loving capacity.

Molly

Hi Molly,:hibye:
That's fine as well Molly.:) We all need to feel happy with how we worship God. At least you are one of the fortunate ones to know that name.:read:Yes,I would introduce my father to someone as 'This is my father/dad Shaun or Mr ........ ( if he were still alive, that is :() I do the same with my heavenly father. I address him as 'heavenly father, Jehovah God'.That's all. Nothing wrong with that, I presume!? I don't feel that is wrong, or overstepping boundaries. It's my natural way of approaching him, and I'm happy with that.:):worthy:Thank you for your reply, Molly.:coffeeread::heartbeat:
Agape,
Grateful :giverose:

This is Acts 11:20-->
proclaiming good news -- the Lord Jesus, 21 and the hand of the Lord was with them, a great number also, having believed, did turn unto the Lord. 22 And the account was heard in the ears of the assembly that [is] in Jerusalem concerning them, and they sent forth Barnabas to go through unto Antioch, 23 who, having come, and having seen the grace of God, was glad, and was exhorting all with purpose of heart to cleave to the Lord, 24 because he was a good man, and full of the Holy Spirit, and of faith, and a great multitude was added to the Lord. Youngs

The NWT translates everything as Lord, except the hand of Jehovah. I would have thought context would suggest that it is more likely to be the same Lord throughout.

Hi Acts,

The NWT footnotes show they were using the translations listed as J in the front of the NWT. It seems in that period of the Reformation many translators were using forms of Jehovah. Many of the Gothic Cathedrals in Europe have the Divine Name in some form written or embossed on them.

Take care

designs

What to call my GOD has been an ongoing debate in my mind for months. I have been following this and the other thread for some time hoping to resolve this. Today I was reading elsewere and came across a thought I'd like to share that has settled my mind. An illustration was given over an adoption of a child verses a natural born one. The adopted child teased the sister he was wanted & she was just what the parents got stuck with. But it went on about how an adopted child is often waited on for a long time and aquired at a great price.So I thought about myself a long time wanting so badly to have a father as a child in an orphanage, slowly coming to know a man who I learned about and his name. Much time passed with him letting me get to know him , while he waited to see if I wanted him for my father.When at last I declared my desires, he adopted me and became my father, giving me the privalge of calling him thus. This is how I now feel about using the name Jehovah, it is a proper name but has no personal relationship in it's meaning to me. My Heavenly Father speaks to me of who & what GOD is to me now. He already knows I know who He is, I hope my calling him father brings him as much joy as calling him that does me.
I still use Jehovah in conversation when it best to comunicate my meaning. But Jah, Yahwe , etc. I am equally comfortable with.
I also think Jehovah is a well known name in the world. Whether it by being used so much by & connected to the witnesses glorifies the name I believe is debatable.
Blithe

Lovely post
vicky

Thank you Vicky.

I hope that i am. :redface:

There is no question that the Name Jehovah was substituted in the NWT many times, where the reference was to Jesus ("the Lord"). However, legitimate uses can be found when it is quoting the OT.

On the other hand; there are hundreds of places in the OT where the Name Jehovah appears in the oldest AVAILABLE Hebrew texts, and it should actually say "the Lord" (see Hebrews 1:10).