Paradise Cafe Discussions - A Place For Bible Research And Christian Encouragement

Hi People,

Suppose you believe that the war commonly known as Harmageddon and the end of the world occurs in the foreseeable future, what is going to happen to mankind in general? Will it be annihilated? I'm afraid that is what the scriptures say. Just want to "hear" your opinion, pro and con. Scriptural support would be greatly apppreciated.

:heartbeat:

AR

hi, teshome, my brother. :hibye: i'll reply to your hypothetical with one of my own.

what if harmageddon is nothing like we had been previously indoctrinated to believe? ... or, ... doesn't occur when we were taught?

only offered as questions to ponder. :thinking: no easy answers from me. ;)

heb9:26Otherwise, He would have needed to suffer often since the foundation of the world; but now once at the consummation of the ages He has been manifested to put away sin by the sacrifice of Himself.

27And inasmuch as it is appointed for men to die once and after this comes judgment,

28so Christ also, having been offered once to bear the sins of many, will appear a second time for salvation without reference to sin, to those who eagerly await Him.

Based on this I would say that yes all will die once.

But that doesn't mean it it permenant.

I think many have been taught that the ones who eagerly await him are those living waiting for the end. or the "rapture"
I just had a thought what if it is the ones under the throne of GOD who's blood is crying out "how long how long"

edited to add

Malachi 4:5
"Behold, I am going to send you Elijah the prophet before the coming of the great and terrible day of the LORD.

matt 11:13"For all the prophets and the Law prophesied until John.

14"And if you are willing to accept it, John himself is (A)Elijah who was to come.

Matthew 17:12
but I say to you that Elijah already came, and they did not recognize him, but did to him whatever they wished. So also the Son of Man is going to suffer at their hands."

"the great and terrible day of the LORD" seems like it may have come already. maybe we are waiting for something else?

Greetings dear brother Isomam, may you continue in the grace and peace of our Lord and King Jesus:

AR my brother the quote below is the key. We all must learn to to see things without the WTS spectacles. We basically have been taught that all will perish if they do not belong to the WTS and submit themselves to the FDS. We all know that the majority of mankind will never do that, hence millions, billions will be destroyed by virtue of their not submitting to the WTS and the FDS.

what if harmageddon is nothing like we had been previously indoctrinated to believe? ... or, ... doesn't occur when we were taught?

On the other hand, scripture says that "ALL" are dying in Adam, but "ALL" will be made alive in Christ". Also, how just would Jehovah be if He were to put to death people who are inherently imperfect? Who did not have the same opportunity that Adam had in "perfection"?

In addition, Christ came not to judge, (condemn) the world of mankind, he came to save it, and that is why he shed his blood, was that for nothing? Can we say justly that if billions of mankind will be destroyed, that this is a victory for Christ?

I wish not to get in controversy, but we need to have more faith in the incomprehendable love of our God Jehovah and His Son our Lord, King and Savior Jesus the Christ.

We of course must draw our own conclusions, but I prefer to believe in the evidence of God's love through His Son, "He has given them all to me, and I shall not lose one".

I am sure we can find scriptures that we may think will result in the destruction of billions of "imperfect" people, but just remember the account of Jonah where Jehovah said (praphrase) "Why should I destroy these people who do not know their right hand from their left". If Jehovah was willing to deal with those people of Ninevah who were in fact "imperfect" why should he deal any less with the world of imperfect mankind?

These of course are just my thoughts, not meant to persuade any nor argue with any other thoughts, just raised as questions for others to contemplate.

I am not sure brother Isomam that you were going there, but it appeared as such.

May you be well my brother, and you as well AR.

Rich spiritual blessings from our father and our great Lord and King Jesus the Christ to both of you and all, brother Fred

Hi there,

Iso, TD and TS, thank yo so much for your responses, dear brothers.

The reason I raised this issue is because I read time and again people reasoning that God is the God of love and wouldn't ever destroy human beings. Afterall, the reason Jesus died was to save the world, not to judge it, it is argued.

Now please read the following:
First of all, you must understand that in the last days scoffers will come, scoffing and following their own evil desires. They will say, "Where is this 'coming' he promised? Ever since our fathers died, everything goes on as it has since the beginning of creation." But they deliberately forget that long ago by God's word the heavens existed and the earth was formed out of water and by water. By these waters also the world of that time was deluged and destroyed. By the same word the present heavens and earth are reserved for fire, being kept for the day of judgment and destruction of ungodly men. 2 Peter 3:3-7

What does it tell you?

:heartbeat:

AR

Hey Teshome!! :clap:


Hows it going mate? :thumbsup:


I know we dont agree on what Armageddon is or means, -- but there is another thought that Armageddon occurs at the end of the 1000 reign, according to how Ezekial sequences events.

It makes a lot of sense.


On the subject of this thread, billions of people are dying now.

2 Peter 3:3-7 sounds familiar, though not in the way we've been "taught".

For example >

By the same word the present heavens and earth are reserved for fire, being kept for the day of judgment and destruction of ungodly men.

Sounds a lot like this >

When the thousand years are over, Satan will be released from his prison and will go out to deceive the nations in the four corners of the earth—Gog and Magog—to gather them for battle. In number they are like the sand on the seashore. They marched across the breadth of the earth and surrounded the camp of God's people, the city he loves. But fire came down from heaven and devoured them. -- Revelation 20


Something tells me the Watchtower version, and subsequently most futurist end-times eschastology is fear-based fantasy.


But thats me. :D


Cheers brother! :friends:

Hello AR, :hibye:

I don't think Armageddon is the next big thing, but that it occurs sometime during the millennial reign.

I don't think our Lord's return would simply be when a clock runs down, as has been inferred by the "day and hour" analysis, but rather for a purpose. I think he will return when Mankind finally realises it can't survive without God's intervention - the theme of the scriptures set when Adam decided to assume god-like authority for mankind over the earth. Imagine how the Heavens will feel to learn that wayward creation - made in God's image - wants to rekindle that link with our Father, quite a day to remember! So I think our Lord will return with a rescue for everyone alive, so that everyone - whatever their upbringing - can know who he is and have the benefit of following his guidance.

His reign won't be completely peaceful - the scriptures tell us there will be a swathe who eventually have to be removed - but I think that the reign starts as a kindness from our kind Father, every opportunity for the whole world to grow together in the same environment with divine nature in operation to help all who want it.

Acts5v29

Absolutely sis,

I have long hated the belief that Armageddon is the last great war. While I do not have a definitive answer, what I do believe is that while hundreds of thousands of little children die each day with precious little help from above (that we can see and acknowledge), the end of the millennium is far more significant.

It stands to reason that the resurrection will include an innumerable return of many who perish before and or even during Armageddon. After all, even Saul of Tarsus, with all of his insight of Judaic law and prophecy, persecuted Christians in ignorance—how much moreso the mentally, educationally, and circumstantially challenged.

My 2 cents,

sw

Actually Harmageddon is a place, Where the "Kings of the earth are gathered together.

The popular beleif is that these kings are pagan presidents and priministers of nations.

The Book of Revelation points out right from the start however, that the Kings of the Earth are Johns spiritual brothers... the anointed.

I made some videos explaining this:

You can watch them here:

http://thebiblereport.blogspot.com/2008/...art-1.html

Regards

abe

You're sooo right! And it's a simple thing, isn't it - God is love, He sent His son to patiently set us free from sin.

How many Christians today took years of convincing before they loved our Lord: why then should churches teach a sudden surprise slaughter of those who have never heard of him? It's an odd thing for a lover of God to teach... Who, I wonder, would want to portray our Lord as an indiscriminent murderer...? (I think this links with the "Great Apostasy" notion)

Act5v29

one question

"All who believe in his name have the hope to be saved."

Where does that leave the rest of the world? Which seemingly is a very very large number and growing. most of Europe is going to be muslim in the near future statistics show. So those who believe in "JESUS name" seem to becoming fewer not more. And of those who believe in his name is it not the ones who LOVE him that will be footstep followers. again where does it leave the rest?

I am am trying to keep my mouth shut on this topic.. it is hard

"I believe all human beings who accept Jesus as their savior are free from sin "
we are forgiven not sinnless. Grace allows room to grow and change if our heart is inclined.

hi, frank :)

i know your quote is from anja's post, but, if i may butt in for just a minute, i would expand her comment to read, ...

"All who believe in his name -- now, or later, -- have the hope to be saved."

i'm guessing this is what sis anja meant, too. ;)

Luke 19:27
Moreover, these enemies of mine that did not want me to become king over them BRING here and slaughter them before me.’”

Like the title of the thread says:

Billions now living may die.


abe

Hi Total Dismay, :hibye:

You're absolutely right, lack of knowledge is not a crime, and that's one reason why our Lord's return won't be in judgment of us, but of Mankind's reign - it's assumed godly authority over the earth. Everyone will remain alive at his return, and everyone will see the divine nature of the Heavens and have the opportunity to let it affect their own lives.

I suppose his immediate return will be a fleshly salvation for everyone alive from the crisis we face, and our following his guidance during his reign - whatever we may be now - will be a spiritual one. Whatever judgment comes on us personally will be after we have all experienced the beauty of a divinely-guided world, and had the opportunity to choose it's way or our own - that's a much better application of "this good news preached in all the nations" when it's done under Christ's guidance and not our own.

Please don't!!!! You've raised a most pertinent point which is a key to real understanding.

IMHO

Acts5v29

.

If even one person refuses to obey Jesus Christ then the rest of the people who do obey will not be able to reap the full benefit.

So there are some choices for a truly loving God:

1/ Get the people who refuse to obey Jesus Christ to obey Jesus Christ. (not going to happen)

2/ Remove the people who don't want to obey Jesus Christ so the ones that do can enjoy the full benefit.


So when you look around the world how many people can you find who REALLY want to obey Jesus Christ?

When I look around I come to the same conclusion as the original poster.

If we have a truly loving God then; "Billions now living may die!"



In Christ

abe