Paradise Cafe Discussions - A Place For Bible Research And Christian Encouragement

Hello everyone :hibye:

After 1,700 years of the Catholic Church's Dark Age, we are on the threshold of great spiritual enlightenment and awakening that comes with the Age of Aquarius. Now I realize that some of you may not be so apt to believe in such "spiritistic" nonsense, but just remember that the Zodiac was inlaid in the tile floor of the 2nd Temple in Jerusalem, so they must have given some significance to it. The Bible is certainly brimming with prophecies concerning this spiritual awakening, and if that is the case, then logic might say that we are presently in a rather unconscious state.

Now we all believe in a resurrection. But what if, because of a problem with our brains (to be specific, an atrophied pineal gland from millennia of disuse), we have been resurrected to this life, but we just can't remember our past lives? Many people DO remember their past lives, some to a great degree and others only vaguely. I have a very good friend, also a former JW, who recently went to a spiritual healer to get to the bottom of some very disturbing and recurring dreams she was having. He informed her that in a past life, in 18th century England, she had been strangled. Through meditation, she is now able to distinctly remember the event. She can now take the necessary steps to deal with the emotional issues that have stemmed from that experience. Needless to say there are millions of people who experience "deja vu". What is up with this??

I have been looking into this for some time, and I would like to share this very interesting article with any of you open-minded folks....

[link removed as inappropriate by admin.]

Love,
:heartbeat:
Jesh

Hi Jesh

Re: "...open-minded folks...."

Upon contemplation for a split second on clicking on your posted link......I thought of a scripture that preventing me from wasting my time....grin.

Genesis 3:3...

"...God has said, ‘YOU must not eat from it, no, YOU must not touch it that YOU do not die.’”  At this the serpent said to the woman: “YOU positively will not die.  For God knows that in the very day of YOUR eating from it YOUR eyes are bound to be opened and YOU are bound to be like God,..."

Death is being dead, Jesh....not "transferring"/reincarnating.

Keeping my mind closed at times......is safe(er) for me...imo.


Christian love and concern.

gogh

BTW, I haven't forgotten about you. I'm just shining off my soapbox and working on my speech!:ok:

With Christian Love and prayers, Debbie

Well... while Debbie is polishin' and editin'....:readthis:

Dear Jesh... I don't know where to begin in rejecting this line of thinking... I didn't read your link btw - don't want to and don't need to. I thought you gave up all this mystical stuff?!

Myself, I'm staunchly iconoclastic and reject the use of any imagery in worship.
My sister the Baptist deacon, on the other hand, has bragged of being a Christian far longer than myself and has even tried to convince me of this reincarnation stuff - which I never believed even before I was a JW. She thought it 'made sense'; I never saw the sense or purpose of it. Everything God created and everything He does has a purpose, evident to us at the moment or not, imho. I had my turn at astology, horoscopes and the like when I was young. Now I'm more mature, hopefully... and have grown past the desire to know things which God has not revealed to me. I also hope I've grown more discerning about pursuing such things.

This is a familiar tactic used by the wtbts, isn't it? Mention the Bible; then if that's true, this must also be true; if we think in a 'logical' way; might, maybe, possibly, could be... but look at all the things we were led to believe using those word ques - they work very well on the unsuspecting. Now, however, I'm far more suspicious!:paranoid:

Of what purpose, do you think, are the 'revealing' of "past lives"? What good is it for this present life? Does it build up confidence in God and the Bible, or does it tear down and cause doubts of the same? :thinking:Funny that God Himself did not reveal anything of the sort to your friend - but a 'spiritual healer'...??? Yeah, what is up with that?
I would never ever seek the 'help' of a 'seer' for anything - that is where your friend first went astray, imo.:wizard: Believing any of the claptrap(crap) was the second step - oh come on!, what kind of 'emotional issues' did she really have before the 'healer' told her she had them? Bad dreams? Did she try prayer at all? What kind of 'meditation' puts you into another time, another life, or death, as in this case? Wonder what 'steps' to 'spiritual healing' her guru will prescribe now - more visits and more $$$? :whistle: I can barely believe an exJW would even think of doing such a thing - incredible!

I looked-up some articles about the zodiacal temple mosaics and came to the conclusion that, imho, the Jews that allowed that kind of imagery had absorbed pagan/worldly influences, including them when they certainly should've been excluding them. They had strayed FAR from pure worship. They expanded kaballistic mysticism - down down down into darkness and godlessness- they had no light to guide them. And I'm not going there with them. I do not believe we can take just anything and everything, slap God's name on it, call it 'good', and make use of it to worship God. I believe quite the opposite, that we come to God 'naked', with a bared heart and mind - spirit and truth are all that are needed.
Whatever 'significance' Jews may have given those images doesn't mean a thing to me - just because they displayed those things, does that make it right? Absolutely not! According to one article(very hard for me to read and understand, but I crawled through it, lol) the first discovered astrological mosaic dates post-Jesus several hundred years.[Vincent originally dated the Naaran synagogue to the third century CE for several reasons. The building overall resembled the "Galilean" synagogue, which in those days was assigned to the second and third centuries./69/ Literary evidence confirmed that there had been a Jewish village at the site in the third century./70/ Finally, he identified a Samuel mentioned in the entrance inscription with the third century Babylonian rabbi, Mar Samuel, who was a noted astronomer. This seemed to fit with the zodiac panel./71/ However, now much more is known about ancient synagogues than in the 1920's, and the building is currently dated to the fifth or sixth century CE./72/ ] (full article 'Astrology in Synagogue Art' here - http://www.smoe.org/arcana/diss5.html) I didn't see any evidence of it being in the 2nd temple at Jerusalem which was completely burned and razed in 66-70CE. The Jews used a lunar calendar - the nations used a solar/planetary calendar. In the middle of all the remaining mosaics discovered, God was depicted as the reigning Sun(Sol Invictus?) in a chariot... one 'zodiac' had depictions of naked uncircumsized men - definitely not Jewish-influenced art, imo!

There's a saying I'm sure your familiar with - Keep an open mind, but not so far open that your brain flops out! Indeed, we're warned time and again to guard our thinking abilities against demonic forces. Keep your senses about you, brother - not everything is what it seems on the surface - that seems to be your rule about so many other things - so why accept this at face value?

My opinion: astrology and mysticism simply don't mix with Christianity.

:love:With love for you, Jesh,
Willa

Hi Gogh, New Truth, Deb, and Willa!

Hey, that's why I put it in the controversy room. It's really too bad you guys choose not to even check out the link. It'[s pretty solid science, IMO. But whatever.

Here are some scriptures that teach reincarnation, IMO....

”And as Jesus passed by, he saw a man which was blind from his birth. And his disciples asked him, saying, Master, who did sin, this man, or his parents, that he was born blind? Jesus answered, “Neither hath this man sinned, nor his parents; but that the works of God should be made manifest in him.” John 9: 1-3

And as they departed, Jesus began to say unto the multitudes concerning John (the Baptist) ….“For this is he, of whom it is written, Behold, I send my messenger before thy face, which shall prepare thy way before thee. Verily I say unto you, Among them that are born of women there hath not risen a greater than John the Baptist….For all the prophets and the law prophesied until John. And if ye will receive it, this is Elias, which was for to come. He that hath ears to hear, let him hear.” Mathew 11: 7-15

“And his disciples asked him, saying, “Why then say the scribes that Elias must first come?” And Jesus answered and said unto them, “Elias truly shall first come, and restore all things. But I say unto you, That Elias is come already, and they knew him not, but have done unto him whatsoever they listed” …Then the disciples understood that he spake unto them of John the Baptist. Mathew 17: 10-13

"Behold I will send you Elijah the prophet, before the coming of the great and dreadful day of the Lord." (Malachi 4:5)

"But I say unto you, That Elias is indeed come." (Mark 9:13)

And they asked him, “What then? Art thou Elias?” And he saith , “I am not". “Art thou that prophet?”. And he answered, “No”. Then said they unto him, “Who art thou? That we may give an answer to them that sent us. What sayest thou of thyself?”

He said, “I am the voice of one crying in the wilderness, Make straight the way of the Lord, as said the prophet Esaias. And they which were sent were of the Pharisees. And they asked him, and said unto him, “Why baptizest thou then, of thou be not Christ, nor Elias, neither that prophet?”

John answered them, saying, “I baptize with water: but there standeth one among you, whom ye know not; He it is, who coming after me is preferred before me, whose shoe’s latchet I am not worthy to unloose.” (John 1:21-27)

… Jesus began to say unto the multitudes concerning John (the Baptist) ….“For this is he, of whom it is written…Verily I say unto you, Among them that are born of women there hath not risen a greater than John the Baptist….For all the prophets and the law prophesied until John. And if ye will receive it, this is Elias…He that hath ears to hear, let him hear.” Mathew 11: 7-15

Scriptural Support Regarding Reincarnation:

[link removed by admin]

All through history, gnostics keep popping up, claiming personal enlightenment through astral projection, like Paul did, and they're all telling the same story, that truth is a personal experience. This in spite of the Catholic Church's attempts to exterminate them. I personally participated in an online course on astral projection, and it works. Many people can do it at will. Are they all demonized? Why not check out their forum, and let me know if these people are practicing love or are they judgmental and critical and fighting over dogmatic interpretation?

[link removed by admin.]

:heartbeat::heartbeat::heartbeat:
Jesh

I prefer not to go there, so I'm not missing anything, Jesh. One of the posters on the thread you posted above, after describing their visions said, "what it means only God knows!" :shocked: I really don't believe God teaches us things that we can't understand the meaning of... and thus cannot 'use'. I can't believe whole-heartedly something I don't fully understand. Maybe that's just me - I have a simple mind.

But you didn't answer even one of the questions I asked you - what is God's purpose, do you suppose? Or - what is the purpose of this knowledge for our lives today? Just to think we know secret stuff above our peers? Should it make one feel super smart, especially loved by God or something else? What insight into living this life does it bring? How does it improve or enlighten our worship of God?

The man Elijah was not reincarnated as John the Baptist, imo, but his God-given spirit was the same kind of spirit.
"It is he who will go as a forerunner before Him in the spirit and power of Elijah, TO TURN THE HEARTS OF THE FATHERS BACK TO THE CHILDREN, and the disobedient to the attitude of the righteous, so as to make ready a people prepared for the Lord." Luke 1:17

Just as Jesus was of the same spirit as Moses - "a prophet, one like me". Many try to emulate Bible characters for their faith, zeal and Godliness - that doesn't mean they've been reincarnated from a Bible character as in a past life - or do you think it does? Maybe there's just so much spirit to go around and God is the original author of "reduce, reuse, recycle" - the Cosmic Recycler!

Ah well - I just don't believe it, Jesh. You do make a fine argument for it, though, but like I said, in the manner of the WT teachings - this is true so that must be true... throw a few scriptures in there and make them say what you want them to say and if someone doesn't see it, then they're simple-minded(which I am) or stubbornly refuse to see your 'truth'. Call me a skeptic - now that is true!

Would like answers, if you have the time, to those questions in my former post about the purpose of it all.:yes:

:peace:

ps - what are you talking about here?

Dear Jeshurun,

A friend wrote me a PM asking me if you "lost it". First, I'd like to thank my friend for thinking that I would be knowledgable enough to know if you have "lost it".:funnyface:

I looked up spiritism and it went to this work on the Merriam Webster's site:

spir·i·tu·al·ism
Pronunciation:\ˈspir-i-chə-wə-ˌli-zəm, -i-chə-ˌli-, -ich-wə-ˌli-\
Function:noun
Date:1796
1: the view that spirit is a prime element of reality
2 a: a belief that spirits of the dead communicate with the living usually through a medium
b (capitalized) : a movement comprising religious organizations emphasizing spiritualism
— spir·i·tu·al·ist \-list\ noun often capitalized
— spir·i·tu·al·is·tic \ˌspir-i-chə-wə-ˈlis-tik, -i-chə-ˈlis-, -ich-wə-ˈlis-\ adjective


Do you honestly think that the 'answers' you are getting on the path you are taking are "better" than the one who created you can give you?

That's honestly what I hear from you.

But, first, let's agree that you are taking a path of 'spiritism'. Can you honestly answer my points of accusation? Are you studying 'spiritism', honestly? And are you angry and feel that "Jehovah" God is a fake and bad? I would like Jehovah to equal Yehweh and the tetragammon, not any other outside influence. In fact, lets just stick to the God of the Tetragammon. Please think about these very basic questions. None of us can work with holy spirit with you if you are not honest and open for a little 'scrutiny'. If you can bear through it, you may find the wonderful jewels and treasures that you may remember from long ago plus all the new ones that many of us have found, and share new ones you find.

Isn't this what you are looking for?

Proverbs 3:13-18 (New Living Translation)

13 Joyful is the person who finds wisdom,
the one who gains understanding.
14 For wisdom is more profitable than silver,
and her wages are better than gold.
15 Wisdom is more precious than rubies;
nothing you desire can compare with her.
16 She offers you long life in her right hand,
and riches and honor in her left.
17 She will guide you down delightful paths;
all her ways are satisfying.
18 Wisdom is a tree of life to those who embrace her;
happy are those who hold her tightly.

Our Father gives "good gifts" to those he chooses.

I hope you will work with us with a little honesty. Your giving very "bad" information as "truth". I pray you will see your error.

With Love, Debbie

Willa, when Paul went to the third heaven he was astral projecting.

What I love about the gnostics is that they don't try to teach you anything or convince you of anything. All they say is to work on yourself, quieting the chatter in your mind, quieting the thousands of egos that destroy us from within, through meditation and prayer, to hear God within and find out the truth for yourself. That is what gnosis is, self-realization, that God is inside you, and it teaches how to get in touch with HIM. So as long as we believe that the Bible can only be understood literally, we will never awaken consciousness, because the entire Bible is an allegory of how to awaken the internal Jehovah, who is much more than some bearded guy up in the sky sitting on a throne, but very a much a party of our very being. The natural question to ask then, is why would there be a secret interpretation of the Bible? Did Jesus not say that he held nothing in secret? Well, if he did, then he contradicted himself when he said that his parables would not be understood by the masses, but only the initiates, his disciples. The reason for the secret interpretation is similar to the Tower of Babel scenario. If the information was made available to all, it would be abused, with all kinds of wicked people using spiritual powers for bad purposes. I doubt very much if this planet would still be here.

Question: since when does Satan have a monopoly on magic? There is white magic and black magic. Didn't Moses practice magic? Wasn't his magic better than that of Pharaoh's priests? And what about Jesus? What is it to walk on the water if not magic? And everybody else who performed miracles? Just a little tidbit from the gnostics.... if we awaken our godly intuition, it is white magic. If we awaken our intellect, our egos, we practice black magic and become demons.

One other thing (for now), is that there is indisputable evidence that the Natufian Society existed 20,000 years ago. If that is the case, then Adam & Eve were not the first humans, and they represent root races instead. From that premise, everything changes, doesn't it?

:heartbeat:
Jesh

Hi Jesh

Please do not confuse miracle with magic.

Re: "And what about Jesus? What is it to walk on the water if not magic?"

Our Master Jesus was/is not a cheap trickster/magician.

magic
 
1. the art of producing illusions as entertainment by the use of sleight of hand, deceptive devices, etc.; legerdemain; conjuring: to pull a rabbit out of a hat by magic.

2. the art of producing a desired effect or result through the use of incantation or various other techniques that presumably assure human control of supernatural agencies or the forces of nature. Compare contagious magic, imitative magic, sympathetic magic.

3. the use of this art: Magic, it was believed, could drive illness from the body.

4. the effects produced: the magic of recovery.

5. power or influence exerted through this art: a wizard of great magic.

6. any extraordinary or mystical influence, charm, power, etc.: the magic in a great name; the magic of music; the magic of spring.


Dear Jeshurun. Pray for our Father's Holy Spirit in Jesus name.

This topic, imo.......has edged to over the edge, of controversial.



Christian concern,

gogh

So they were scattered because there was no shepherd, and when they were scattered they became food for all the wild animals. My sheep wandered over all the mountains and on every high hill. They were scattered over the whole earth, and no one searched or looked for them. Ezekiel 34:5-6

:heartbeat:

AR

Just another thought,

We do worship in spirit and spirit interacts in our lives. Can anyone explain the difference between the spirit knowledge that he is admittedly receiving (by his posting of the garbage) and receiving spirit 'blessed' by our Lord Jesus to give us?

I suggest reading Proverbs, Jeshurun from the start.

After your honest with your self, Lou, would you think about whether or not its nice to post the stuff that your posting on this site. You do realize that by posting a link to things such as these, you are taking part in the sins of Babylon herself? Your a traffic director to spirit mediums. Have you no love for your soul and spirit anymore? Would you really give it all to the "cheapest" bidder? What about your family and life? Wouldn't you really rather "give up everything" to preserve them alive?

In fact, thinking about my children really started me back on the path to "getting straight". They deserve the best spiritual food that I can give them. I think of it as picking out the best spirit driven choice. We can strive for the richest, purest spirit of love and truth or we can get a cheap 'knock off'. I choose the best possible spirit I can find for them everyday!

Its time for 'back to basics' for you.:read:

If not, have a safe journey and I pray you 'wake up'. :love:

I don't think your information is fit for Christian consumption, though. Maybe, you'll defer from spreading it out of kindness. :heartbeat:

With Christian Love, Debbie

No problem guys.... want you all to know I love you all but it's time for me to move on permanently...

New Truth, I'm glad you can see it.

Ciao bella!

:heartbeat:
Jesh

Sorry, Jeshurun, I didn't see your post. There was a lot of time between my writing and posting.

There is glorious power that can be used in our life from the life source! There are a few rules before we receive the riches and the power. One of them is that it CAN'T come from certain sources.

Maybe your angry and testing Jehovah and Jesus. They don't take to that very kindly, you know.

I have an armful of work to do and am going to the beach. I'll pray and meditate over posting you an answer. I hope your looking at the other threads because some things are "tied" together. I believe you have a bunch of people that would really like to help you. I just hope you are really ready to discard 'your coveted magic'. Many of us can relate to taking wrong paths, and spiritualality has a bigger place in our lives than anything else. Whether we address our spiritual needs or not is our choice. Learning to avoid false magic is an obstacle that happens. For example a man going in to watch female strippers can take on a 'spirit of lust'. Looking into future events can allow a 'spirit of prediction' to enter our life. To think that we are not going to have to deal with any of this (bad spirits) runs contrary to what mankinds affliction truly are. Also, some people are not afflicted like others. Where, someone as brother gogh, has a high caution security system, some like myself have come to realize that some things are unavoidable.

I can realistically say that I think I started to understand spiritism a little from reading the Globe, Sun, Enquirer and Cosmopolitan as a young, young girl. Its one of those things where I wonder why my mother bought magazines like that when we were supposed to be Christian. I saw the wrong in it and I still read them. I've never addressed this with my mom.

I'll continue later...I really have to go

Your a brave guy if you take this on sincerely.

With Sisterly Christian Love, Debbie