Paradise Cafe Discussions - A Place For Bible Research And Christian Encouragement

Thought I would start a topic for timely reminders at this time of year.
Please add your own thoughts, I do not want this to be my thing.


The meaning of Leaven

For Sunday's "Think-Tank" we had a neat discussion on leaven. Some connections that were made got me thinking along new lines and also helped to clear up some parts of the Bible I have personally wondered about. In order to keep things in my mind I decided to write a Blog entry over what we discussed. It is presented below. I wasn't able to remember or incorporate all thoughts so please feel free to add some comments. Thanks to everyone that contributed to the Sunday discussion!!
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On Saturdays I participate in a systematic Bible Study with some friends. We just started a reading of the Acts of the Apostles. Chapter 2 describes the birth of the Christian congregation and the phenomenal growth it experiences. It started with just 120 disciples of Jesus who had the power of the Holy Spirit given to them. The power of the Spirit manifested itself in the gift of tongues which caused quite a scene and many unbelieving Jews to gather to investigate. Peter stands up and filled with Holy Spirit speaks to them about Jesus and asserts that he is both Lord and Christ and that in order to be saved you must call on his name. The result is on that very first day, 3,000 are immediately baptized and become a part of the Christian congregation. The account concludes that, "the Lord was adding to their number every day". (Acts 2)

It would be reasonable to conclude that the Lord was behind such sudden, fantastic growth and gave evidence that this fledgling body had his blessing.

Let's flash-foward about three-hundred years to another time when the Christian congregation was experiencing tremendous growth. The Edict of Milam was just issued which legalized the Christian worship in the Roman Empire and the Emperor Constantine himself converted to Christianity and bestowed state favor toward Christianity. Writer David W. Bercot comments,

"Christianity had grown rapidly in the first three centuries, but after the coversion of Constantine the church mushroomed. At the the time of the Edict of Milan (A.D. 313), probably about a tenth of the Roman Empire had converted to Chrstianity. But that had taken nearly three hundred years. In less than a hundred years after the Edict of Milan, nearly all of the other 90 percent had been "converted." The church believed that this rapid growth was a sure sign of God's approval. Having accepted this premise, the church quickly adopted virtually any practice that resulted in growth, including the use of images in worship - a practice utterly loathsome to the early Christians." - Will the Real Heretics Please Stand Up, p. 129

From these two examples of rapid growth we can see that not all comes from God's blessing and that corruption can bring about fantastic growth just as the Holy Spirit can.

This ties into another discussion that I have been having in our group about "leaven".

In Scripture "leaven" is a common figure of speech and is routinely used to signify corruption. Jesus thus warns his follows against the "leaven" of the Pharisees and of Herod. (Mark 8:15) The "leaven" of the Pharisees can be seen as their teachings that corrupted the true meaning of the Law. The "leaven" of Herod may be seen as a wordly political element that corrupted the Jewish way of life with foreign practice. In a similar way, the apostle Paul used leaven to signify sin that had crept into the Corinthian congregation and threatened to contaminate the entire congregation. (1 Cor 5:6-8) Equally he warns that Jewish legalism can act as leaven, corrupting and transforming the "whole batch". (Gal 5:9)

Since these scriptual references to "leaven" have a negative connotation it may be surprising to consider how in one parable Jesus compares the work of leaven to the Kingdom of God. At Matthew 13:33 he says, "The kingdom of heaven is like yeast that a woman took and mixed with three measures of flour until all the dough had risen.". Generally,people conclude that this is a good thing that Jesus speaks of. They may understand this parable to mean that just as a tiny bit of leaven can work its way through a whole batch of dough, so too the Kingdom of God can start small, perhaps with one individual, and slowly grow to influence a whole community, and even transform the world. However, since in every other account leaven is used as something that is impure, sinful, and corrupting we have to question whether or not this is really a good thing that Jesus is speaking of at Matthew 13:33.

Some may feel that there cannot be anything unclean and corrupting within the Kingdom of God. But, if we look at the thrust of the other "Kingdom" parables Jesus provides in the 13th of Matthew we can see how in some of them there is a bad element present along with the good. For instance he compares the Kingdom of Heaven to a field of wheat that an enemy sneaks into and oversows with weeds. (Matthew 13:24-30) He speaks of the Kingdom as being a net filled with all types of fish, both bad and good. (Matthew 13:47,48)

[It can also be noted in his parable that the women hides the leaven. There is element of stealth involved in the same way that in the parable of the sower the enemy sneaks in while the field owner is sleeping and hides weeds among the wheat.]

So if this leaven in the parable is a bad thing how are we to understand Jesus' parable? A good help is to consider an account provided by Mark 8:14-21. It reads:

"Now they had forgotten to take bread, except for one loaf they had with them in the boat. And Jesus ordered them, "Watch out! Beware of the yeast of the Pharisees and the yeast of Herod!" So they began to discuss with one another about having no bread. When he learned of this, Jesus said to them, "Why are you arguing about having no bread? Do you still not see or understand? Have your hearts been hardened? Though you have eyes, don’t you see? And though you have ears, can’t you hear? Don’t you remember? When I broke the five loaves for the five thousand, how many baskets full of pieces did you pick up?" They replied, "Twelve." "When I broke the seven loaves for the four thousand, how many baskets full of pieces did you pick up?" They replied, "Seven." Then he said to them, "Do you still not understand?"

At first glance the transition here seems somewhat disconnected and jarring as Jesus quickly goes from speaking of leaven to talking about his miraculous multiplication of the loafs. However, what is the common connection between the two? For me it has to do with growth. If you've ever made bread you know that when yeast is added to dough it can greatly increase in size - a handful can expand to fill an entire bowl. Similarly Jesus was able to take just a few loaves of bread and expand them to satisfy the needs of thousands. Outwardly both appear to be an expansion; however, the similarities between the two there end.

When making yeast bread you have to "punch" down the risen dough before forming it into a loaf to bake. When you do so the mound of dough quickly deflates just like a baloon because it is really just filled with air. The yeast adds no additional grain to the bread, only air. The growth is merely superficial. However, when Jesus multiplied the loaves by the power of the Holy Spirit he created something of substance, something solid.

When it comes to the Christian congregation growth can come in these two ways. When the Holy Spirit produces growth it is in the same manner of Jesus multiplying the loaves. Each loaf is essentially a duplication of Christ (his body being represented by the bread). It is substancial, solid food. However, when outside corrupting elements produce growth it is not a replication of Christ. It simply produces an impressive looking body of believers that has very little of Jesus' substance but it is filled mostly with other elements, like air.

Many religious organizations today cite their growth as evidence of God's blessing and the working of His Spirit. How can we discern if it is true growth and multiplication or false expansion produced by corrupting leaven? One way is to examine the body of believers that makes up that religious association. Do they give evidence of being solid Christians manifesting the mind and qualities of Jesus Christ? Or do they only superficially wear the name Christian and very little of Jesus is present admist a bunch of hot air?

This is from Anthony

I am a Worm

Most accept that the words of David in Psalm 22 are prophetic of Jesus.
In verse 6 he says:-

But I am a worm, and not a man,
A reproach to men and despicable to the people.

This particular 'worm' in Latin is called coccus ilicis, and is not so much a worm but a scale insect.

The Hebrew word is TOWLAH. (fem. Towleah)

The Israelites would extract scarlet dye from this insect's body to make regal gowns in scarlet red, (I suppose a little like cochineal).

The Hebrew word towlah could mean both 'scarlet' or 'worm' and is translated either way, depending on context.

The whole of Psalm 22 is prophetically talking about the death of Jesus' on a tree. So where does this description of a 'worm' come in?

The female Towlah (insect/worm) would fix her body, irremovably and so permanently to a tree, that it could not be prised off, then lay her eggs beneath her body.
The hatched larvae would feed off her body which was also protecting them, guaranteeing their life. As the parent towlah died, scarlet dye would exude from her body staining the surrounding wood.

The significances of this when we think of Jesus using his body to cover our frailties, saying that we must feed on his body, and protecting us by dying on a tree are obvious.

The taking note of when the word 'scarlet' (towlah) is used is important.
Jesus was prophetically dressed in a scarlet robe before his death, signifying his death and his regality.
The temple curtain was torn in two at his death and had been woven with threads of scarlet.


Finaly the scarlet coloured wild beast claims kingship by its colour. I also wonder if part of its claims are due to having died and come back to life, in a parody of Jesus and a mirror (or even same as) the beast that received the death stroke.

What do you believe in?

http://www.paradisecafediscussions.net/s...hp?tid=712

A Last will and Testament and ...... a Promise.
Not two covenants, and certainly not one.

Reading Luke 22 particularly verses 20 and 29 we see there are two covenants....or are there?

(1)
20 Also, the cup in the same way after they had the evening meal, he saying: “This cup means the new covenant by virtue of my blood, which is to be poured out in your behalf.

(2)
29 and I make a covenant with YOU, just as my Father has made a covenant with me, for a kingdom.

The first 'agreement' (1) required a mediator, and was between Jehovah and humans, and the mediator was Jesus.

The second (2) was directly a promise between Jesus and his followers.

These are two very different agreements.

The reason I have used the word agreement is that the NWT has taken two different Greek words and yet translated them both identically as covenant.

In Luke 22 verse 20 the Greek word is diatheke

This word suggests a will left by a person about to die. It is a disposition of property, a last will and testament.
In other words, this was what Jesus was going to leave to the whole of the human race, by his death.

His last will and testament was for us to come into a relationship with Jehovah. It would need him as mediator though.

Now..........

In verse 29 the Greek word which the NWT also translates as covenant is diatithemai.

This means to place separately.
To manage, to arrange.
To make an agreement with, a promise.
This promise would need no mediator, no conditions.
It was made after Judas was gone, he was not in this promise for a kingdom.



If the first "agreement" included the 'ruling as a king in the heavens', then the second "agreement" would be totally unnecessary.

Everyone is in the first agreement, if they want, and should show they are willing to sign up by being a partaker.

How many sheep pens? Is anyone being penned in now?

John 10.

Using the NWT, Let's analyse what Jesus was saying.

1. Most truly I say to you, he that does not enter into the sheep pen through the door, but climbs up some other place, that one is a thief and a plunderer; but he that enters through the door is shepherd of the sheep. The doorkeeper opens to this one, and the sheep listen to his voice, and he calls his own sheep by name and leads them out. When he has got all his own out, he goes before them, and the sheep follow him, because they know his voice.
A stranger they will by no means follow but will flee from him, because they do not know the voice of strangers."
Jesus spoke this comparison to them, but they did not know what the things meant that he was speaking to them. Therefore Jesus said again, "Most truly I say to you, I am the door of the sheep. All those that have come in place of me are thieves and plunderers; but the sheep have not listened to them. I am the door; whoever enters through me will be saved, and he will go in and he will go out and find pasturage.
The thief does not come unless it is to steal and slay and destroy.
I have come that they might have life and might have it in abundance. I am the fine shepherd!
The fine shepherd surrenders his soul in behalf of the sheep.
The hired man, who is no shepherd and to whom the sheep do not belong as his own, beholds the wolf coming and abandons the sheep and flees, and the wolf snatches them and scatters them, because he is a hired man and does not care for the sheep.
I am the fine shepherd, and I know my sheep and my sheep know me, just as the Father knows me and I know the Father, and I surrender my soul in behalf of the sheep.
And I have other sheep, which are not out of this pen; those also I must bring, and they will listen to my voice, and they will become one flock, one shepherd".

I changed the word fold to pen (other Bibles do this), as fold sounds too much like flock. Don't want to confuse the two. The other purple words are those that are there in the Greek. (Check Interlinear)

The most important question has to be, what does the pen represent?
WT '84, 2/15 para. 5 says it is the Law covenant of Moses.
I also agree with that.

Galatians 3:23 says, " However, before the faith arrived, we were being guarded under law, being delivered up together into custody, looking to the faith that was destined to be revealed. Consequently the Law has become our tutor leading to Christ, that we might be declared righteous due to faith. But now that the faith has arrived, we are no longer under a tutor"

Give Galatians a read.

The Abrahamic covenant is based on faith and has no end. Meantime until Jesus arrives the Israelites are protected under the Mosaic law. Sure it is rigid and pens them in but it is a protection.
Only Jesus can free them from that pen, through his death and nailing the covenant to the Stauros, so he is the gate, the exit.
So those who are in the pen are those who are born into the Mosaic law covenant. So who are the ones, the other sheep, who are not in the pen? I suggest none Jews. After 36 AD they also come along and become one flock.
Now to get around this the WT says that Jesus takes the sheep from the first pen and puts them in 'another' pen. Then they say the other sheep are the ones not in this 'second' pen.
If you can find that second pen, you are a better scribe than I.
That is why I emphasised verse 9...... and find pasturage. There is no pasturage in a sheep pen! Check Strongs 833 courtyard/sheepfold.
He does not put them in another pen, he sets them free under his watchful gaze as the fine shepherd.
The law covenant written on the heart is not constrictive, it does not pen us in, and now that the fine shepherd has come to collect his sheep we are free to roam.

So the other sheep are not 'earthlies' and the little flock 'heavenlies'.
There is only one pen and not one of Jesus' sheep are locked in it. All his sheep are free and roaming.
Jesus was talking about those within the Jewish law covenant, who followed him out of that system, and those who were not, who also followed him. They made up one flock. ....Simple!

Thanks for the info, Babe. :love:

Love to you, Vickster - have missed your weekend studies with the group more than you know.:cry:

:peace:

I heard a passover speach in part from a man of the Jews for Jesus group.

I found that we have lost alot of meaning in the memorial not knowing how the sadar is truly done.
One little intesting bit is the hidden loaf.

Will try to get them sorted by tonight. This was a 5:30 am attempt.