Paradise Cafe Discussions - A Place For Bible Research And Christian Encouragement

Greetings dear brothers and sisters, may the grace of our loving God and Father along with the love and peace of His son our Lord, King and Savior Jesus the Christ be with all of you.

I felt the spirit move me to want to make these comments, that we must emphasize our strong faith in Jesus our Savior. As former Witnesses we have unknowingly placed our Lord and King Jesus as an entity in the background and that he needed humans (FDS) to help him bring us to salvation. Sadly, many have felt the way that I do, that I have missed out on having that oneness with Jesus. Also, we have spent many hours training others to become Jehovah’s Witnesses, instead of helping ones who do not know the Christ to come to know him as their Savior as the only means of salvation. So, now it is time for us to confess union with Christ so that whomever we meet, (those who truly do not know Christ) we may help them to become followers of him, our Lord and King Jesus.

I am not here to argue beliefs, but would just like to encourage our love and appreciation for our mighty god and King. I am sure you will find errors in my comments, but ask that you be kind to an old man, and correct me gently. But more than that, I know there are so many more scriptures that could make these thoughts more clearly and likely more encouraging, so I ask you to please contribute to these thoughts.

I do in earnest thank you for any contributing thoughts.


In re-reading Reveltation21:8 for untold times, it came upon me in question, as to who the cowards are? As I read that verse, it clearly is emphasizing unchristian conduct, as it goes on to say “those disgusting in their filth, and murderers and fornicators, and those practicing spiritism and idolaters and all the liars, their portion will be in the lake that burns with fire and sulphur. This means the second death".

Why is it that of all the unchristian conduct that is mentioned in this verse, cowards was mentioned first? Is being a coward an unchristian behavior, to the degree that it deserves everlasting destruction in the lake of fire?

In order to better understand this, I found a clue from the previous verse Rev. 21:7 “anyone conquering, will inherit these things and I shall be his God and he will be my son.”In this verse, it appears that conquering is essential in order to be blessed to inherit these things and to become a son of God. Historically and rightly so, no coward could ever be a conqueror, but how does one conquer,and why is not being a conqueror equated with such unchristian behavior as to deserve the second death?

Returning now to Rev. 21:8 in the remaining part of that verse it says, “but as for the cowards, and those without faith,” here I saw that those without faith seems to describe who cowards are, and includes them to be as detestable to our God as much as those who commit such unchristian deeds and lead vile unchristian lives. But how and why is it that being a coward can be as detestable to God as all these other things listed?

In Mark 8:38 Jesus said, “whoever becomes ashamed of me and my words in this adulterous and sinful generation, the Son of man will also be ashamed of him when he arrives in the glory of his Father with the holy ones”. Clearly if any man is ashamed of our Lord, King and Savior Jesus, he must certainly be one who is without faith! Since Rev: 21:8 equates one without faith as a coward, it seems to stand to reason that,that one cannot be a conqueror.

But why, is being a coward and not a conqueror deserving of the second death? As mentioned in Rev. 21:8, faith in our Lord, King and Savior is what gives us the ability to conquer. Mathew 12:31 may shed some light on this, note what Jesus said, “I say to you, every sort of sin and blasphemy will be forgiven men, but whoever speaks against the holy spirit, it will not be forgiven him, no not in this system of things nor that to come.”This acting or speaking against the holy spirit (sinning against the holy spirit) ultimately is a rejection of Jesus our Savior who was the only means for salvation whom our God Jehovah had provided, which in turn would enable God fearing men to conquer this world, and it is only through this means, ( faith in Jesus) that we can conquer this world and attain salvation. If we reject Jesus we have sinned against the holy spirit, and we have acted cowardly, refusing to carry our torture stake and follow the Christ. In this way, we cannot in anyway become conquerors, as we have chosen not to live by faith in him.

The holy spirit was promised by Jesus to aid God fearing men to grow to spiritual maturity, strengthen their faith in God and His son Jesus and ultimately have them become one with Jesus and his Father Jehovah God. By grieving the holy spirit they threw away that precious gift that would lead them to become one with our Lord and King and his Father, thereby making it possible to conquer the world.

The evidence that Jesus was truly the Son of God the Savior that mankind was waiting for was overwhelming, yet in addition to all that the holy spirit further continued to enlighten honest hearted God fearing men in persuasive ways as recorded in the holy scriptures. For any to reject the prodding of the holy spirit, was to outright reject Jehovah God’s Son as the means for salvation, an unforgivable sin. Since they willingly choose this course, and cannot become conquerors, they become cowards.

Romans 10:10 Paul says, “For with the heart one exercises faith for righteousness, but with the mouth one confesses faith in Christ for salvation. In order to gain salvation we must conquer and we do that by confessing faith in Christ, if we do not, we are acting cowardly, and will be found disapproved.

Let us therefore stand firm in Christ and let our light shine before all men that we may gain the victory as promised by our Lord and King as we go forth and conquer, by confessing complete uncompromising faith in Christ.

May all of you be filled with His spirit, and showered by His grace, along with the wonderful joy we have in His son, our Lord, King and Savior, Jesus, love brother Fred

Cowards are wishy washy , easily blow about.

Jesus vomited out any who are luke warm.


To me it is the same theme.

To stand by and not speak up or do the right thing is just as bad as the wrong.

I beleive we have a law about being an accomplis. we my not be the perpetrator but we may guilty none the less.

Isn't language convoluted! :thinking: :dontknow: :confused:

I noticed that Strongs renders this greek word as "fearful", "timid" also. It's a bit of a s t r e t c h this, but the dictionary renders "timid" as "diffident" which comes from the Latin word meaning - "distrust".

We know what cowardice (usually) means - that can be through lack of strength of character, fearfulness through experience. It happens to plenty of people, good and bad! But "distrust" is more of an attitude, like a wall built to repel anything which would make them change from their lifestyle.

Perhaps. What do you think?

Acts5v29

Greetings dear brother Totaldismay, Jehovah's unending blessings and the love and peace of our Lord and king be with you this day:

Brother TD, you said,


Cowards are wishy washy , easily blow about.

Jesus vomited out any who are luke warm.


To me it is the same theme.

To stand by and not speak up or do the right thing is just as bad as the wrong.



I beleive we have a law about being an accomplis. we my not be the perpetrator but we may guilty none the less.
I agree, and even more so when it comes to our claim to be followers of the Christ. I am not very good at saying clearly what I mean at times, and what I was actually understanding from this verse, was that the cowards mentioned here are not your ordinary everyday cowards in life.

The import of how the cowards were mentioned first out of all the bad conduct seemed to me that these cowards were specifically condemed because of their willingness to fail to act on behalf of our Lord and Savior which made them reprehensible. Jesus was a treasure that could not be matched, and for any not accept that treasure and not magnify it, is equal to what Jesus said in the parable of the minas.

May you be well my brother and thank you for your comments.

Christian love and peace to you, brother Fred

Greetings dear Acts5v29, mat the grace of our God and the comfort of His son our Lord and King the Christ be with you this day:

Acts5v29, you said,



Isn't language convoluted! :thinking: :dontknow: :confused:

I noticed that Strongs renders this greek word as "[i]fearful[/i]", "timid" also. It's a bit of a s t r e t c h this, but the dictionary renders "timid" as "diffident" which comes from the Latin word meaning - "[b]distrust[/b]".

We know what cowardice (usually) means - that can be through lack of strength of character, fearfulness through experience. It happens to plenty of people, good and bad! But "distrust" is more of an attitude, like a wall built to repel anything which would make them change from their lifestyle.
Perhaps. What do you think?

Acts5v29


Yes my dear one, I believe you have nailed it, that is why they are condemed seemingly more so. We know that to be a Christian takes courage something a person who is fearful and not trusting can [/i]not[/i]do. We know that we are made perfect in love by throwing fear outside, so if we continue to abide in fear we cannot be made perfect and Jesus said we [/i]must[/i] be perfect in love as is our Heavenly Father.

I have not researched the derivations of the words in the NWT, and just commented based on their face meaning. But even with that, it is clear to me that so many of us who were Jehovah's Witnesses, and many that still are, have acted cowardly in the sense that we were willing to relegate Jesus to a back seat and outright living in fear of the FDS.

I see now that I was living a cowardly double standard life, and cannot do that anymore, and I believe there are many who knowingly are continueing to live that life for [/i]fear[/i]of losing friends, but mostly family due to the stand forced upon those them from the WTS.

This is dishonoring to our King and Savior, it is time for us to be courageous and bold, and go forth [/i]conquering[/i] in the name of Jesus.

So let us not continue in fear and distrust, but go on to gain the victory by means of [/u][/b][/i]complete and undying faith in Jesus the Christ[/i][/b]

May you be well and continue to dwell with Him.

In Christ always, brother Fred[/b][/i]

Hi TruthSeeker,
I greatly enjoyed your thread :D :thumbsup:
It is of course not easy to be courageous. So it is good to remind of the need to be courageous.

May Our Father Jehovah God bless you through his Son our Lord Jesus
Your brother Jan

Thank you for your kind words brother Fred.

Not everyone is strong, and how many times have such ones been deliberately called "coward", knowing the effect this scripture would have on them. Such cruelty. But our Lord came to help those who are - not obstinately distrustful as in Revelation - but, shall we say, "overly mild":

5 Happy are the mild-tempered ones, since they will inherit the earth....
10 Happy are those who have been persecuted for righteousness’ sake, since the kingdom of the heavens belongs to them.

Matthew 5:5,10

People are not born weak, but made so through sad and oppressive experience. It builds as strong a prison around them as the one which held John in his captivity, and our Lord understood this:

20 No bruised reed will he crush, and no smoldering flaxen wick will he extinguish, until he sends out justice with success.
Matthew 12:20 (Isaiah 42:3)

18 Jehovah’s spirit is upon me, because he anointed me to declare good news to the poor, he sent me forth to preach a release to the captives and a recovery of sight to the blind, to send the crushed ones away with a release
Luke:4:18 (Isaiah 61:1)

- a release for those captive and crushed who can't raise their spirits for themselves!

Language is so limited and so many scriptures are easily corrupted to make people uneasy without cause - what a mischief that is. But our Friends in the Heavens know our hearts very well, whatever confines this world has placed upon us, and that Jehovah is not simply a God for the strong, but for the fine-hearted who have a beauty and potential far beyond strength.

Acts5v29

Greetings again Acts5v29, may your day be filled with the spriit of the Holy one, and the peace of our Lord.

Dear one, you said,

quote=Acts5v29]


Thank you for your kind words brother Fred.

Not everyone is strong, and how many times have such ones been deliberately called "coward", knowing the effect this scripture would have on them. Such cruelty. But our Lord came to help those who are - not obstinately distrustful as in Revelation - but, shall we say, "overly mild":

I agree, for not all who appear to act cowardly are in fact so. I think of Jude 22, after he warns about the corrupt ways of all the evil doers and how they are condemned by all of their deeds, he goes on to say "continue showing mercy to "some that have doubts", save them by snatching them out of the fire". And so from this we can see that "we" cannot judge who are these cowardly ones because these very ones with doubt could appear so.

That is why Jehovah in His wisdom is letting our Lord and King Jesus do the judging by examining their hearts. Men tend to bring men to ruin and their judgement would be terribly harsh. So it is not a matter of us judging who are the cowards, it is a matter for us not to become one

5 Happy are the mild-tempered ones, since they will inherit the earth....
10 Happy are those who have been persecuted for righteousness’ sake, since the kingdom of the heavens belongs to them.

Matthew 5:5,10

People are not born weak, but made so through sad and oppressive experience. It builds as strong a prison around them as the one which held John in his captivity, and our Lord understood this:

I actually think it involves both, as we are imperfect and unfortuneatley there are many abberations to what we become, as we do inherit qualities that are not always godly. Of course that was not what Jehovah had purposed, and that is why Jesus could sympathise with mankind, he understood their wretched condition and felt empathy. So yes, I believe before it is all said and done we all will have a chance equal to what Adam had, for how can we be etearnally judged in this inherited imperfect being that we are?

20 No bruised reed will he crush, and no smoldering flaxen wick will he extinguish, until he sends out justice with success.
Matthew 12:20 (Isaiah 42:3)

18 Jehovah’s spirit is upon me, because he anointed me to declare good news to the poor, he sent me forth to preach a release to the captives and a recovery of sight to the blind, to send the crushed ones away with a release Luke:4:18 (Isaiah 61:1)

- a release for those captive and crushed who can't raise their spirits for themselves!

Yes our Lord and Savior did say "I have come not to condemn the world but to save it". Should we expect anything less from the King O Kings and Lord of Lords, I think not?

Language is so limited and so many scriptures are [i]easily corrupted to make people uneasy without cause - what a mischief that is.[/i] But our Friends in the Heavens know our hearts very well, whatever confines this world has placed upon us, and that Jehovah is not simply a God for the strong, but for the fine-hearted who have a beauty and potential far beyond strength.

Acts5v29

[/quote]

Yes, we have seen how the WTS has created a whole new language that has done nothing more than mislead the sheep. Thankfully, the holy spirit is at work and Jesus is with us as we all gather in his name for he shall be there until the end.

Thank you for your encouraging thoughts, may you keep well and in His grace.

Christian love, brother Fred

The cowards are those who fear man over God. God is sending the Holy Spirit to the hearts of men, to come out from following idols (religions). They feel and sense something is wrong within this world, from the prompting of the Spirt of Truth, but they would rather hold on to the sinking ship, just because they might be shunned by family and friends. They deny the Holy Spirit to hear and obey Christ, and follow him alone with complete faith. It is just too hard to let go, and leave family. Thats why they are called cowards, to cowardly to leave the lies, and follow the truth, Jesus , the resurrection to life.

Dear Truth seeker,

The scripture you cited in regard to cowards is in the book of Revelation, therefore it is written to the spiritual sons of God. That book starts with Jesus cleansing the Temple of God. the Temple made of living stones.

Those who were called but failed to take a stand for the truth in making known the Lie of 1914 that The WT org is built on , have no place in the coming Kingdom of God. The Father of the Lie is Satan the Devil.
They are the cowards that go into the lake of fire. Fear of man, is a weapon of Satan's.

We were forewarned by Paul , if anyone came to say the presence of the Lord has come to gather all of the them ( bride )to him,
not to be deceived because that message or that expression even if it would come from a angel ,
did not come from them. or the true sons of God. 2Thess2:1-3.

Unless one takes a firm stand for the truth, then that one is a coward.
Revelation says that the cowards would be thrown in the lake of fire.
Now ,all scripture is inspired of God, so being a coward is not to be taken lightly.

No excuse to shrink back, as Jehovah takes no delight in those that shrink back.
There fore being a coward is not acceptable, unless of course one may slip , but then there is no forgiveness unless there is repentance or one is really cut to the heart. over their transgression as David and Peter were.

To continue on the course of a coward shows no back bone so how in the world could one even claim to be a disciple of Christ,
Didn't Jesus question, are you able to drink the same cup as I ? In other words be prepared to die for the truth if need be.

Yes dear Truth seeker, I believe your post was motivated by Holy spirit.
I take notice you did not direct anyone to the WT teachings or the writings of Russell.
Good for you ! :)
Directing them to the Word of God and JC is where the spirit is.

It is ones like you that the Father is seeking, Those who will worship Him in spirit and in truth. John 4:23-24

Dear New Heart ,all I can say is Amen. Thank you.

love Susanna

Hi sister Susanna,
You said it well, :thumbsup: hopefully more of us will seriously take the council to heart and acquire the needed strenght to fight for the truth.

Love
Brother Jan

Greetings dear New Heart, may you continue in the loving kindness of our Great God and His son our Lord and Savior Jesus the Christ:

New Heart, you said,

As our Lord and King said, "do not fear those who can kill the body, and after this are not able to do anything more, but fear Him who after killing has authority to throw into Gehenna".

Religion uses the the fear of man to control man, and the WTS has been even far more guilty of this using the power and authority they took from Christ and placed on the FDS. These have used the fear tactic in a very cultist way, and I pray that the many who continue fearing them will soon by means of holy spirit
turn from this cowardly course and fully recognize and submit to Jesus where our loyalty truly belongs.

May you be well and continue faithful while always in His grace.

The love and peace of our Lord and King be with you, brother Fred

Greetings dearest Susanna, may our Great God Jehovah continue to shower you with untold blessings forever, and may you flourish in the wonder of His son our Savior Jesus the Christ always:

Dear Susanna, you said,

Thank you for your wonderful words of real truth, I pray they will move all who are caught in the throws of the WTS, and come to the true light that shines so brightly and is only found in our Lord, King and Savior Jesus the Christ.

I am very much spiritually refreshed by your words and remain greateful to you.

May you be well my dear one, may the showers of our Lord continue to rain on you with unending blessing always.

Warm Christian love, brother Fred

Greetings brother Jan, may our Lord and King bless you in your sevice to him, and may you see ongoing blessings always:

Jan, you said,

Yes dear brother that is exactly it, we need to be serious and take on the Christian fight and battle for our Lord and King, and he will make us Conquerors and give us the victory. So as the apostle Paul said, "stop becoming slaves of men", there is only one that we should follow and he is our Savior, our mighty god, King of Kings and Lord of Lords, who else would we want to follow?

May you be well and always in His care.

In Christ, brother Fred

Dear Brother Fred,

thanks you for your kind words. May we keep on feeding the Doves, to come down off their thrones and turn to Christ, who holds the Key to his Father's Kingdom.

This song reminds me of this..
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VT-SFgkVl...re=related

Can't Find My Way Home Lyrics

Come down off your throne and leave your body alone - somebody must change
You are the reason I've been waiting so long - somebody holds the key
Well, I'm near the end and I just ain't got the time
And I'm wasted and I can't find my way home

Come down on your own and leave your body alone - somebody must change
You are the reason I've been waiting all these years - somebody holds the key
Well, I'm near the end and I just ain't got the time
And I'm wasted and I can't find my way home

May we help God's Doves find their way home.

Love,
New Heart