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Is there two different classes of christians?

I still believe in that, just as I did when I was baptized as a Jehovah's witness. But I have seen that many are abandoning this understanding. But I want to explain why I still adhere to that.

I think that we all agree that those born again by spirit, have the hope to be in heaven with our heavenly Father Jehovah God and with our Lord Jesus Christ. Those who where born again by the anointing of holy spirit experienced that from a distinct moment in life. Therefore before that happened to them, they where not born from spirit. But they could call themselvs christians. So at that time they had not a hope to live forever in heaven, but on earth. But they where anyway christians. And many remain in that condition. All my relatives and brothers and sisters who I know here in Sweden continue to be as they were. They have not got any born-again-by-holy-spirit-experience. But they continue to go to the Kingdom-hall. They take in spiritual food. They go to field service. They try as well as they can to follow Jesus. Therefore I would not deny that they are christians. Christ means litterally Anointed, but christian is an adjective, and it does not mean anointed, but something like follower of the Anointed.
But some few Jehovah's witnesses get this anointing. So, there are anointed Jehovah's witnesses and those who are not anointed. In other churches I have not found that all would be anointed. I have not either heard any similar experiences about anointing as I have heard from those who have been in connection with Jehovah's witnesses. So to become anointed I believe you have to believe in many things that Jehovah's witnesses rightly teach about God's will. And also have a exceptional desire to do God's will.
But in a sence it can be said that we all have one hope. Everybody should seek the heavenly Kingdom first. But seldom christians do their outmost to seek that kingdom in first place in their life. God do not force anybody to seach his kindom in first place in their life. So those who don't, won't get this adoption to be God's spiritual children. They are therefore not so close to God because they have not become his children.
Therefore we have two groups of christians, christians who have become spiritual children to God and christians who have not become spiritual children to God.

I can tell about the clear differences between anointed christians and non-anointed christians among Jehovah's witnesses. One brother in my former congregation told me about an anointed sister, that she was very spiritual. She could all the time speak about spiritual matters. An other person, my workmate, whose wife and children are Jehovah's witnesses recently met two anointed sisters. And he told the same about them. They could explain matters in the Bible like no one else. And they where, like radiant of something special. He said he really enjoyed to meet them. But non anointed Jehovah's witnesses do not make a such impression. It has to do with the holy spirit living in the anointed christians, as long as they are not grieving it.
From my own experience I can tell that before I was anointed I had it very hard to preach the good news of the Kingdom. I prefered to preach about the signs of the last days, how to recognize the true religion. Expose false teachings. But to talk about the Kingdom directly at the door, no I prefered other themes. But after my anointing it's the opposite. The first thing I want to talk about in service is about God's kingdom, about the possibility to seek that Kingdom. And that there is still empty places of these 144 000.
Can you say that there does not exist two kinds of christians? For me it is obvious that there is. And the anointed are those who are the most fit to build spirituality.
The problem now within the Jehovah's witnesses is that they regard anointed equal with non-anointed. They have placed as teachers non-anointed brothers. The result is what we see. But if we here begin to equalize the non-anointed christians with the anointed. Then we would not be wiser. Why to fall into the same trap of false reasoning?
If you have become anointed, why do you want to say to those who are not anointed that they to are going to be in heaven with our Father? Do you feel too much pity for them? If God has not chosen them for that, why to decieve them? Better to tell them to seek the kingdom in first place and help them mature. Then the anointing might come. But might also never come. But it is not our task to give them the anointing. Why should every christian be equal. That would not be justice. But justice is when everyone is rewarded according to his deeds. Did not Jesus say he will reward according to our deeds? In Luke 19:16-26 (NWT)
Then the first one presented himself, saying, ‘Lord, your mi´na gained ten mi´nas.’ 17 So he said to him, ‘Well done, good slave! Because in a very small matter you have proved yourself faithful, hold authority over ten cities.’ 18 Now the second came, saying, ‘Your mi´na, Lord, made five mi´nas.’ 19 He said to this one also, ‘You, too, be in charge of five cities.’ 20 But a different one came, saying, ‘Lord, here is your mi´na, that I kept laid away in a cloth. 21 You see, I was in fear of you, because you are a harsh man; you take up what you did not deposit and you reap what you did not sow.’ 22 He said to him, ‘Out of your own mouth I judge you, wicked slave. You knew, did you, that I am a harsh man, taking up what I did not deposit and reaping what I did not sow? 23 Hence why is it you did not put my silver money in a bank? Then on my arrival I would have collected it with interest.’
24 “With that he said to those standing by, ‘Take the mi´na from him and give it to him that has the ten mi´nas.’ 25 But they said to him, ‘Lord, he has ten mi´nas!’— 26 ‘I say to YOU, To everyone that has, more will be given; but from the one that does not have, even what he has will be taken away.

Your brother Jan

Hi my brother Jan,
I have to agree with you
surely there are two "classes" of christians, but I will properly use Jesus' word for this: fold,folds
John 10
16. And other sheep I have, which are not of this fold: them also I must bring, and they shall hear my voice: and they shall become one flock, one shepherd.
The both "folds" will became united in a "flock" by addhering to the "teaching of Christ"
2John 1
9 Whosoever goeth onward and abideth not in the teaching of Christ, hath not God: he that abideth in the teaching, the same hath both the Father and the Son.

One fact is that from the time of Russell exactly "the anointed" ones have fallen in idolatry , and Jehovah has decided to punish them !
In a few words , the punishment given by Jehovah was exactly the fact that He , Jehovah has allowed that the "gentiles/nations" to came in Temple and to trample it (under their foot)

Let see the scriptures
Deut 32:
21. They have moved me to jealousy with that which is not God; they have provoked me to anger with their vanities:
and I will move them to jealousy with those which are not a people;
I will provoke them to anger with a foolish nation.

Psalm 79
1O. God, the nations are come into thine inheritance; Thy holy temple have they defiled; They have laid Jerusalem in heaps.

Revelation 11
2 . And the court which is without the temple leave without, and measure it not; for it hath been given unto the nations: and the holy city shall they tread under foot forty and two months.

BUT the nations/gentiles alones should not have a such success in trampling the Temple , if there would not be existed the "sons of Edom" , or the "weeds" between "wheat"
Jehovah has a special message for the "sons of Edom" :
8. Shall I not in that day, saith Jehovah, destroy the wise men out of Edom, and understanding out of the mount of Esau?

9. And thy mighty men, O Teman, shall be dismayed, to the end that every one may be cut off from the mount of Esau by slaughter.

10. For the violence done to thy brother Jacob, shame shall cover thee, and thou shalt be cut off for ever.

11. In the day that thou stoodest on the other side, in the day that strangers carried away his substance, and foreigners entered into his gates, and cast lots upon Jerusalem, even thou wast as one of them.

12. But look not thou on the day of thy brother in the day of his disaster, and rejoice not over the children of Judah in the day of their destruction; neither speak proudly in the day of distress.

13. Enter not into the gate of my people in the day of their calamity; yea, look not thou on their affliction in the day of their calamity, neither lay ye hands on their substance in the day of their calamity.

14. And stand thou not in the crossway, to cut off those of his that escape; and deliver not up those of his that remain in the day of distress.

Well , there is a hope for all sons of Jacob now , as Jehovah says:
17. But in mount Zion there shall be those that escape, and it shall be holy; and the house of Jacob shall possess their possessions.

But who are the "house of Jacob" ?
-- Are those who in the day of judgement (which got its start in autumn 2005 ) will understand the "Song of Moses" ( Rev 15:3 / Deut.32:1-43 ) and will have the same atitude as Daniel / see Daniel's prayer in Dan. 9:4-19.

to these ones (forming the people of saints of the Most Holy One / Dan.7 ) the Kingdom will be given (on earth , while they will be still on earth ) ,
but the Kingdom will be "of Jehovah "
Obadiah 1
21. And saviours shall come up on mount Zion to judge the mount of Esau; and the kingdom shall be Jehovah's.

Well my brother Jan , in order to happen that there is still road to go into being teached "the truth"(by the Spirit of truth ) and being "cleansed with water"
Ezekiel 36
21. But I had regard for my holy name, which the house of Israel had profaned among the nations, whither they went.

22. Therefore say unto the house of Israel, Thus saith the Lord Jehovah: I do not this for your sake, O house of Israel, but for my holy name, which ye have profaned among the nations, whither ye went.

23. And I will sanctify my great name, which hath been profaned among the nations, which ye have profaned in the midst of them; and the nations shall know that I am Jehovah, saith the Lord Jehovah, when I shall be sanctified in you before their eyes.

24. For I will take you from among the nations, and gather you out of all the countries, and will bring you into your own land.

25. And I will sprinkle clean water upon you, and ye shall be clean: from all your filthiness, and from all your idols, will I cleanse you.

Do you agree with Jehovah , my brother Jan ?

For such "sons of Jacob" like you , have Jehovah provided "prophets" ,
in order to be "gather" together under Christ , the Head !

Pay attention to the words of a "prophet" , there words are for you:
http://putinthesickle.blogspot.com/

in Christ ,
your brother and friend , rus v.

While the scriptures teach two salvations (earthly and heavenly) there is only one class of Christians. The term "Christians" is only given to those who have sacfice their earthly inheritance and are running the race of the upward call in Christ Jesus.

The rest of the world will inherit the earth. It was these that Jesus was referring too when he said "And other sheep I have, which are not of this fold: them also I must bring, and they shall hear my voice; and there shall be one fold, and one shepherd." John 10:16

Those who hear his voice are the "dead" mentioned in John 5:28, 29

RR

Some wise words may be read here
http://e-jehovahs-witnesses.com/forum/in...st&p=28542


friendly, rus v.

Jan,

Just a few questions.

Do you believe that the only ones who are "annointed" are Jehovah's Witnesses, or do you believe that it is possible for people of different religious backgrounds to have been born of Holy Spirit?

First of all much depends on how you define "Christians", to make sure we are not "comparing apples to oranges".

If you define Christian simply as one who is a "believer" in Jesus, but may not be anointed by the holy spirit, then I suppose you could make the argument for "two classes" of "Christians". But this really serves to confuse the issue more than clarify it.

Because by calling all these as "Christians" it is not hard then to try to apply all the scriptures, which are intended for spirit-anointed brothers of Christ, to anyone who refers to themselves as Christian. This is what the WT Society has done, and this is why they have confused the issue in the minds of their followers.

Let's take for example Paul's admonition to "marry only in the Lord" (1Cor 7:39). The "Witnesses" have used this scripture to support their position that "Witnesses" should only marry "Witnesses", even though most of them admit to not being "anointed".

Yet it is clear from Paul's opening salutation to the Corinthians that he was speaking only to those of the "Body of Christ", and for that reason marrying "in the Lord" would preserve the unity of the body; it makes sense. He did not mean to only marry those belonging the same religious organization, for the true "Body of Christ" supersedes all these manmade boundaries.

"To the church of God which is at Corinth, to those who are sanctified IN Christ Jesus, called to be saints ..." - 1Cor 1:2 NKJV

So, I repeat, saying that there are "two classes of Christians", in my opinion only serves to confuse the issue (which is the goal of some religious organizations)

:love:Hello dear brother Jan,
I'm sorry you're upset about this.:friends: I'll try to better explain my view...

I, too, do not see "classes" among Christians at this time - it is not for us humans to divide what belongs to Christ - it belongs only to him and the angels he will send to separate the 'weeds' from the 'wheat'. He commanded his disciples to "let them grow together until the harvest", so we must allow that to happen and not be judging anyone before their time to be judged, imho. But the WTS(and most all religions) does that, dividing Jesus' sheep as they see fit - but it is still not up to them, even though they try. Obviously, the weeds and wheat are still growing and that harvest has not happened yet, although the WT says it all happened early in the 20th century. It didn't.

As I see it, everyone who calls themselves 'Christian' is under an obligation to God and Christ to act the part. If they don't, they will be judged by their Leader. It is not up to us to say, "oh, that one is 'anointed' and thus a true Christian" or ''that one must not have any of God's holy spirit and is not 'anointed'". I feel the same about all Christian churches - if they call themselves 'Christian', then they are obligated to Jesus Christ to act accordingly, for it is his name they bear witness to. Some do not honor his name but they blaspheme it by their actions - it is to them that he will say "I never knew you", even though they did some amazing things under his banner.

I believe we all are to run the same race with the same Kingdom in view - until death. Only after our race is finished will we be assigned our place in that Kingdom. I've often said that I don't care where I am in the Kingdom, just so I'm there. :pray: To reign over others has never been my goal - I would gladly dig sewer ditches or pick nits off monkey's backs in that glorious Kingdom!

The WTS is wrong to say that the Kingdom of God is only for those 144,000 of their anointed ones - a Kingdom is much more than the rulers, is it not? Paul said we would become a 'nation of kings and priests' - an entire nation, not only the ruling elite. Now, I can envision that nation of God - for who could lead people, who formerly did not know and love God, to know and love Him? Would it not be those who, through Christ, have come to know Him as a loving and caring Father and friend? Christ Jesus can read hearts - he will know whom to place where to be the most effective in his Father's Kingdom - it is not for us to try to decide now before the set time, and taking that responsibilty away from him onto ourselves - which the WTS has tried to do.

It was my experience as a Jehovah's Witness that all people are not taught to ask for God's spirit to the extent that one becomes anointed and gets a new birth from above. But that is what the Bible teaches. Luke 11: 9 "So I say to you: Ask and it will be given to you; seek and you will find; knock and the door will be opened to you. 10 For everyone who asks receives; he who seeks finds; and to him who knocks, the door will be opened.
11 "Which of you fathers, if your son asks for a fish, will give him a snake instead? 12 Or if he asks for an egg, will give him a scorpion? 13 If you then, though you are evil, know how to give good gifts to your children, how much more will your Father in heaven give the Holy Spirit to those who ask him!"

I was told that that was kind of 'a done deal' - but now, 10 years later, they have reopened the door they locked in 1935 when they thought 'the end' was so imminent. Those 'millions now living', as Rutherford said, have all died. The hopes the Witnesses had then have been dashed to nothing, but the WTS leaders have revised and revamped their teachings(and literally rewritten their own history) to keep control of their legal corporation.

The WTS teaches that only a few are 'chosen' for 'special roles' in God's Kingdom - and that is true, but God does the choosing at His chosen time, not the WTS at the present time. It's why they tend to reject those who, of late, have realized God's spirit is upon them in a new way. That 'new way' is open to all who humbly seek it, for only the Christ is a sinners Savior, not any 'church' or sect or any [other] person or group. We must be attached to him directly, not through anyone else, as the WT teaches - Christ Jesus is the only gate, the only Way. God's spirit is a 'free gift' from Him, and everyone earnestly seeking it will receive it. But Witnesses have been taught that they shouldn't dare ask for it, that it's improper for 'just anyone' to seek it. But that is not what the Bible teaches. Jesus tells us to follow him, not follow someone else who might or might not be following him. We are to follow his footsteps closely, not step in someone else's footprints as they go astray in their zig-zag rocky paths.

Well, I have not told anyone they're going to heaven - I have not even said that I am going to heaven. So I cannot say who is or who is not 'anointed' in order to deceive them. I 'assume' that everyone here that cares to delve into God's Word as much as we all do - that we all want His spirit, and more and more of it! I do not know what 'reward' I will have, let alone what others will be rewarded. I only offer to spread Jesus' own words - "Come to me, ALL who are tired and burdened, and I will give you rest". No one knows what place they will be assigned until it has been assigned by God. To say otherwise is presumptuous. I don't feel pity at all - I feel a renewed hope with overwhelming joy, not only for me, but for anyone who wants the life that Jesus offers through faith in him.(I do feel empathy for those still chained to the WTS false teachings... and OK, maybe I also feel quite a bit of righteous indignation towards the WTS for those false teachings - it is so wrong for them to withhold the truth of God's love from ALL those who truly want to be His children :angry:) The 'heavenly call' - that is, God calling us from heaven, not necessarily to heaven(for only God and Christ know our eventuality) is spoken to anyone who wants it; the Bible says so. My experience is living proof only to myself - a confirmation of God's love and acceptance. I did not receive knowledge of any kind of future superior position - and that's not even what I sought - I only wanted His love, and I received that, plus so much more faith and trust in Him - more than I'd ever imagined was possible. As a Witness I was certain I was unworthy of His love - I'd even made the statement on several occasions that I would probably never "love Jehovah" as some others I knew who's faith seemed so strong. But He made a liar of me, huh? Lol - but He remains TRUE!

My own hope is only to be faithful to the end of my life, to be wise in using the 'talents' given to me - to prove 'fit' for Kingdom life - and I leave the rest to God in trust. It seems we cannot give anyone else an anointing of the holy spirit like the apostles did after Jesus' death by the 'laying on of hands'. We do not have the power of healing or raising the dead to life like they did either. Maybe those will be the signs of God's outpouring of spirit through the 'two witnesses' in the beginning of 'the end'. Who knows? But we can point the way to Christ for salvation. Those who care enough will study the Bible diligently to learn more and will discover the real truth just as we all have done. It's a very personal thing for each of us - those who dig for the treasure of God's Word will uncover the gems of life. To 'be anointed' is not something we can teach others, imo - it's something we must learn for ourselves with His spirit's guidance.

Christians should be equal in this life because Christ died for all of us, not only a few. He said we are all brethren and we shouldn't "lord it over' others. Peter stated for a certainty that God is not partial, but anyone who fears Him and works righteousness is acceptable to Him - and that everyone putting faith in Jesus Christ gets forgiveness of sins through his name. Acts 10 I have faith in those words, I have faith in Christ Jesus, and I have faith in the One Who sent him to save me - to save ALL who want it. To preach Jesus' saving power is what we're commisioned to preach - the Good News that he died for everyone so we could have forgiveness for our sins and see God's Kingdom because of our faith.
The WTS preaches another gospel - that Jesus returned in 1914, chose the Bible Students as the only true religion, and the resulting elite of the WTBTS is the 'faithful and discreet slave', the whole world's only true spokesman for God. They have placed themselves in Christ's judgement seat and have given themselves absolute power over peoples fate and faith. That's probably why they teach what they teach - to promote the truth about Christ would reveal that they have no authority whatsoever over Christ's own, and their superior positions in this life would be 'down-sized' to foot-washers. They love the power they enjoy now more than they love the Lord or his truth. I have rejected them as a false christ. But I always pray that their eyes will be opened and they all will repent with broken hearts - I trust that God will hear their tearful prayers and lead them to His Son - the only True Way, just like He did for me, even though I am truly 'less than nothing'.

Sorry so long - but that's my short answer!

:heartbeat:Love to you dear brother, and to ALL
:peace:

Part of the mistake comes from seeing the 144,000 in Revelation 7 as the "anointed". The account does not say this.

In fact, the account interprets itself:

"And I heard the number of those who were sealed, a hundred and forty-four thousand, sealed out of every tribe of the sons of Israel... After these things I saw, and, look! a great crowd, which no man was able to number, out of all nations and tribes and peoples and tongues..." (Rev 7:4,9)

When we free ourselves of the burden of organizational doctrine, we can clearly see that the 144,000 are Jews, and the "great crowd" are Gentiles! The account itself tells us this.

It is essentially the same as when Jesus said:

"And I have other sheep, which are not of this fold; those also I must bring, and they will listen to my voice, and they will become one flock, one shepherd." (John 10:16)

The WTS make this out to be anointed and non-anointed, but it is simply Jesus referring to the "little flock" of Jews, and the "other sheep" of Gentiles who would become one flock.

When we untangle the web of WT doctrine from our minds, both the accounts in John and Revelation are saying basically the same things.

The 144,000 number itself must be symbolic. If it is literal, then we must also take the 12 groupings of 12,000 literally also. It is a roll call, a census, a "remnant" taken from the nation of Israel, the Jews who survived the great tribulation that Jesus spoke about, which came about from 66AD onwards, by heeding their Master's voice and fleeing.

The "great crowd" were the Gentiles who came out of that tribulation. Revelation is not that difficult, if we put it into the correct time perspective and stop seeing it as for "our day" as every generation from Jesus' time up until now have done.

In other words, are there "anointed" ones? Undoubtedly. However, the 144,000 are not the "anointed", they were the Jews of the 1st century who fled Jerusalem - so the number of "anointed" is not limited to 144,000!

I believe as you do. There are only two roads, the one that leads to life, and the road that leads to destruction.

There is only one type of christian (spiritual man who worhips God from their heart) who will make it, and that means all those who are faithful to God alone will be in union with him and his Son, and they invited to be heirs in the new kingdom.

The great crowd are also born of spirit, thats why they also stand before the throne in white clean fine linen robes. They also will make up Christ's new kingdom on earth, and will be also called faithful ones.

The 144,000 are the ones who are firstborn from the dead man, those who woke up from death first , resurrected to life in Christ, taking part in the first resurrection, having been sealed on their foreheads and their names engraved upon the white stone with the new name written they are to be called in the Faithful City. They are also called the living stones.

The great crowd also come around and see or wake up, and are those who are also baptised in the holy spirit, and they are also annointed , and will live in the Faithful City, along with Christ and the 144,000. This Faithful City will soon be coming down from heaven to dwell with us on earth. The great crowd are gathered from all over the earth. All those who profess to be christains in lukewarmness, will remain outside the Faithful City, and wil not be able to enter, because they did not have enough Faith in God, to leave everything behind (religions) and pick up their torture stake and follow Christ. The wicked will be cut off.