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NewTruth

03-24-2009, 02:43 PM
So, I was wondering.. ? :confused: Was the holy spirit being poured out @ Pentecost, the same as being Born again with spirit?

And was being born again with spirit, the same as recieving the gifts of the spirit, such as tongues, ability to heal the sick, raise the dead?

So, does:

Born again = Pentecost outpour of spirit = gifts of spirit?

And if so, is the pouring out that Acts 2, about the pouring out of spirit in the last days, something that was discontinued with the death of the apostles?

And if so, then is all this something that only happened in the end of the Jewish system and in our last days and NOT inbetween, which would mean that no one would be 'born again', for the last 2 thousand years.. and is only meant for an occuring during the presences of Christ, (1st and 2nd coming)?

This would imply, as Dan. 12:2 states, that all were asleep in the grave and when Michael came, they awoke, some to life and some to judgement? What do you think?

Totaldismay

03-24-2009, 02:50 PM
pretty much how I see it. I guess we will find out

Jan Kosonen

03-24-2009, 05:54 PM

NewTruth Wrote:
So, I was wondering.. ? :confused: Was the holy spirit being poured out @ Pentecost, the same as being Born again with spirit?

Yes. I understand it that way. Jesus says in John 3:5: “Most truly I say to you, Unless anyone is born from water and spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.
Then before ascending to heaven Jesus said in Acts 1:4,5: And while he was meeting with them he gave them the orders: “Do not withdraw from Jerusalem, but keep waiting for what the Father has promised, about which YOU heard from me; 5 because John, indeed, baptized with water, but YOU will be baptized in holy spirit not many days after this.”
Her Jesus does not explicitly say that they will be born again, but that they will be baptized in holy spirit. But anyway as Jesus said to enter the kingdom it is necessary to born again from spirit. So in Pentecost they got this spirit.
Apostle Paul also explains getting the spirit, and connects it with a similar expression as birth, when he uses the expression adoption as son. He also connects this with the Kingdom saying: If, then, we are children, we are also heirs: heirs indeed of God, but joint heirs with Christ, provided we suffer together that we may also be glorified together. Romans 8:17
This word heir and inheritance is also mentioned by Paul in direct connection to the Kingdom. In Colosians 1:12 we read: thanking the Father who rendered YOU suitable for YOUR participation in the inheritance of the holy ones in the light. 13 He delivered us from the authority of the darkness and transferred us into the kingdom of the Son of his love,

We have also the well-known Scripture: Do YOU not know that unrighteous persons will not inherit God’s kingdom? - 1 Corinthians 6:9

So the words the adoption, born again by spirit, receive the spirit, the Kingdom, heirs, inheritance are often speaking of the same subject in the so called new testament.

Quote:

And was being born again with spirit, the same as recieving the gifts of the spirit, such as tongues, ability to heal the sick, raise the dead?

So, does:

Born again = Pentecost outpour of spirit = gifts of spirit?

I don't know. Did all who had born again by spirit in the first centry received gifts of the spirit? But at pentecost they all 120 got the baptism in the spirit and in the same time the gift of tongues. But some gifts may not be so easy to recognize. Because Paul mentioned as gifts: "For example, to one there is given through the spirit speech of wisdom, to another speech of knowledge according to the same spirit, 9 to another faith by the same spirit,"- 1 Corinthians 12:8,9
Well, I think it is possible that every born again by spirit has got a gift of the spirit of some kind for the upbuilding of the congregation.

Quote:
And if so, is the pouring out that Acts 2, about the pouring out of spirit in the last days, something that was discontinued with the death of the apostles?


Well God continues to pour out his spirit to all who ask of it, and it is impossible to grow to full maturity with out the holy spirit. But not everyone gets the spirit in the same abundant manner. For example before I got anointed I was not so inclined every day to spiritual matters and I did not ask of it. Well it was sometimes, but quite rare. I would say that my heart condition was not so spiritual at that time. And that's what I see with most of Jehovah's witnesses. And other church members. There is not much of holy spirit. But naturaly as first fruits, those born again by spirit are able to have a closer relationship with the Father and the Son.

Quote:
And if so, then is all this something that only happened in the end of the Jewish system and in our last days and NOT inbetween, which would mean that no one would be 'born again', for the last 2 thousand years.. and is only meant for an occuring during the presences of Christ, (1st and 2nd coming)?

This would imply, as Dan. 12:2 states, that all were asleep in the grave and when Michael came, they awoke, some to life and some to judgement? What do you think?

Her I would answer that before the end, just as Joel prophesied the holy spirit will be poured on every one, I mean also on those who will inherit the earth.

Your brother Jan

NewTruth

03-24-2009, 11:53 PM


So then, TD and Jan... if the Pentecost thang is the same as being born again... then the born again experience must have ended with the apostles, right?

I just trying to work this out myself. I think there is a different between the born again experience and recieving holy spirit as the prophets of old did. Don't you?

Jan Kosonen

03-25-2009, 05:17 AM
Hi NewTruth,
About the born again experience. Because it is the same experience as to become adopted by God, to become His son, (in heaven both women and men will be sons of God). The possibility to become a son to God, should require to be born again in spirit. So that is what it is about. Therefore the born again experience continues still, because still people, like many of us have experienced this adoption.

Your brother Jan

SoldierOfJah

03-26-2009, 04:43 PM

Jan Kosonen Wrote:
Hi NewTruth,
About the born again experience. Because it is the same experience as to become adopted by God, to become His son, (in heaven both women and men will be sons of God). The possibility to become a son to God, should require to be born again in spirit. So that is what it is about. Therefore the born again experience continues still, because still people, like many of us have experienced this adoption.

Your brother Jan


..... 1 john 5:1O who is Born of God here?
Who prays "our Father in the heavens"

Beau Wetini

03-27-2009, 06:16 AM

SoldierOfJah Wrote:
..... 1 john 5:1O who is Born of God here?
Who prays "our Father in the heavens"



ANSWER> everyone ;)

Totaldismay

03-27-2009, 03:57 PM
Well,

Thou it may have seemed to end with the apostles. I don't think it did.

Jesus himself put forth the question “when I return will I find the faith"?

I think this says "volumes" as the expression goes. I think that since he was
the bread sent to feed God's chosen people those who accepted and ate of the
bread were filled. We are not fed with the bread directly but thru the accounts of the apostles.
So I must conclude that no man can be "filled with holy spirit" up till his return.
I do believe thou that we can get a taste of the spirit and it can be mighty strong.
I for one think that people have mistaken this over the past few centuries and became drunk with the feeling that this token made them somebody. And hence forth the evil slave had come. This to me is much different then the anitchrist. I believe any who have sought after GOD and dug for this buried treasure are susceptible to be either a faithful slave or an evil one.
I believe that it takes much digging for some to even find the smallest coin of value "in themselves"
and for others they seem to dig and hit "pay dirt". But neither are excluded from the
gift but it seems that for some it takes more work. That is why I think it is those
that are chosen when our Lord returns are changed in the twinkling of an eye for they
have done wonderful things without the full power of the holy spirit.
It was simply their Love and Faith that kept them going.

Just my thoughts on this matter

NewTruth

03-27-2009, 10:22 PM


Hi Frank,

I did really have to say, what you said makes sense. I like the scripture, about Jesus upon his return pondering if he will really find faith on the earth. Also, the parable about the man who goes away after giving talents to his people .. and on returning notes what they have done with the talents. Also there is the Math. 24:45-46 .. when the master arrives who will he find dispensing the spiritual food to the domestics? And then this one who is, will get the reward, presumably the HS and the Kingdom.. And if Jesus has been here for 2,000 years, then what's the big deal about him returning?

I like what you said, about it even being a greater thing, in a way to have done good things without the help of the spirit in full measure. As no doubt they did have HS.. as did the prophets before the gift of being spirit begotten..

Thanks Frank!
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