Paradise Cafe Discussions - A Place For Bible Research And Christian Encouragement

My brother;
I come to this site because I'm looking for new ideas and I want to throw in a few cents myself. But lately I often find the site deluged with ideas from people who just want to sell me on the mindless teachings of their religion... on the Internet we call it "junk mail." So, I often end up going through the topics and looking at who wrote it, to sort out the real original thoughts from the sales pitches.

As I've stated before, I have great respect for Pastor Russell and his teachings (as do several others here). But I would much rather discuss something with you open mindedly, than to have someone just quote the "infallible" doctrines of someone else; for all men can be wrong. And when we forget that, we have stopped seeking, knocking, and asking.

So, if I seem to have come down hard on you, please forgive me. But I would much rather discuss what you have found to be true than the things you have bought into. And if you can admit that Pastor Russell was occasionally wrong, that is a starting point for a good relationship, for we have much in common.

Jim Wheeler

Great Thread on Moral Depth Brother veritas re

Hello Brothers
Peace and Abundance to you Brothers.
For all you Brothers out there in the Wilderness.
Hey Brother Beau
How's things in Melb. Earth shaking.
How often have you gotten started on
something new with great positive energy and
everything went well in the beginning?
You started off with great zeal and passion.
But after a while you grew tired.
Your positive energy began to turn negative and your
thoughts began to work against you.
Before you knew it you started creating
things you didn't want.
It all started when
you lost focus on what you wanted.
Instead of saying what you wanted, you
started saying things like, I hate my job,
my wife/husband is difficult, I don't like
it here anymore, and the pattern continued.
Then things got progressively worse and you
found yourself wondering what went wrong.
Since you are in complete charge of your own
mind, you must take responsibility for what
you choose to think about and what you
respond to.
Those things you choose to think about and
respond to, in turn, can create certain
circumstances in your life.
Therefore, it's critical that you pay
attention to your thoughts.
Philippians 4:8 Finally, brothers, whatever things are true, whatever things are of serious concern,
whatever things are righteous, whatever things are chaste, whatever things are lovable,
whatever things are well spoken of, whatever virtue there is and whatever praiseworthy thing there is,
continue considering these things.
I wanted to share that with you because your
thoughts play such a great role in creating
your reality especially in the Wilderness. Therefore, pay attention to what
you're thinking about at all times!

Sons of Christ.
Cc
Mark 11:22 And in reply Jesus said to them: “Have faith in God.
23 Truly I say to YOU that whoever tells this mountain, ‘Be lifted up and thrown into the sea,’
and does not doubt in his heart but has faith that what he says is going to occur, he will have it so.
24 This is why I tell YOU, All the things YOU pray and ask for have faith
that YOU have practically received,
and YOU will have them.

This is an interesting perspective that I think has much merit. Does YHWH use organizations as a way to help people maintain some sort of spiritual continuity in a world gone crazy, a sort of strength in numbers thing as far as a faith structure, even though he did not setup the organization? Governments are used by God as a way to keep order and discipline in society, so it would seem logical that YHWH would do something similar with organized religion. My conclusion is that organized religions were not setup and sanctioned by God, but he does use them for certain things if he so chooses. God didn’t set any of them up as such, they were just a natural outworking of what people do when they group into like belief systems. Jesus said he knows who his sheep are, so the matter of what “organization” the sheep happen to be in is of no consequence since the Lord can straighten up their “accurate knowledge” whenever the time is right. In the meantime I can see the logic of leaving persons in their delusion. In fact I will not talk to anyone about any of the crazy stuff going on unless they beat it out of me, because I do not wish to be responsible for stripping someone from their “spiritual paradise” into the crazy place I now exist in. Once the Lord himself starts the process of leading someone into all the truth, then that’s where I think spiritually responsible persons on the dbs can use their experience and wisdom to assist such ones.

Imagine if all of a sudden millions of persons became aware of the real deal like those of us out here, that their “spiritual paradise” was nothing more than a delusion, that it was really true that the whole world was in the power of the wicked one, that the WT was just one more of man’s best efforts and not setup by YHWH (in my view)? There would be mass breakdown because most persons could not stand the confusing issues that suddenly were staring them in the face. YHWH is kind in letting those that need the crutch hang onto it, until the time comes for them to be led “into all the truth”, and then to gently lead them by small steps until they gain the ability to stand the full shock factor when spiritual reality sets in.

So true - I wouldn’t know where to tell persons to turn either. When I first became aware of the gross error of the WT and started to search for the answers, I thought I’d find a group of persons somewhere that had the real truth, and that all agreed on all points. The internet seemed to be the place since that medium is international, and the true worshippers I figured could all be led by the Holy Spirit to there gather. When it became apparent to me that the internet was about as crazy as the WT as far as no one agrees on much, that really set me to thinking about the wisdom of leaving the WT – if nothing better was out there to be found. Could I go back to the WT and use it as a means to have association and some sort of spiritual continuity? For me the answer was yes, I could - since the level of love and error is about the same there as anywhere else I’ve been out here anyway. Its up to me to be responsible for what I believe, but the “where” I did it had no bearing on my stand before the True God and the Son Jesus. While the internet medium allows for real discussion and spiritual freedom, not everyone is cut out for it. Many persons just want to do some sort of worship thing free of controversy or agonizing issues. “Moral survival”, for such ones, is a fitting term but should not be looked down upon.

I suspect that some of us out here have been tasked as a frontline vanguard, put in place to help the newbies as they are stumbled out of organized religion, like ones who were in the spiritual wilderness before all of us were there to help - such as the apostles and faithful spirit led sojourners through history and into modern times. Even if no formal tasking has taken place, everyone out here should act as though this were the case - by their working to handle the word of God aright.

This is why in my view it’s imperative to be spiritually responsible, so that we can be a value add for the spiritual salvation of others, and not be yet another source of spiritual weirdness for honest hearted searchers of truth to have to wade through. To take liberties with Scripture just because one can is not being spiritually responsible. Of course all this is a perfect fit for the parable of the wheat and the weeds that would co-exist until the conclusion of the system. Since the reapers are angels its my guess we are not going to be able to hide who we really are, so we better do our best with the notion of developing “moral depth”.


v r

Moral depth is a learning curve. That's my summation. And it's only as deep as we're willing to take it.
with love,
sw

So true! The organization that we left behind didn't know all the answers but said that they did. And many here, like them, claim to know all the answers, so what's the difference? Having the humility to recognize that our religious theories might be wrong is a good starting place for moral depth.

And bursting someone else's religious bubble carries a heavy spiritual burden, because, it often leads people away from belief in and love for God. So, how will He view our efforts?