Paradise Cafe Discussions - A Place For Bible Research And Christian Encouragement

Forgive the shortness and lack of information, but I've been studying this for a bit now, and I believe this could be better translated as plan or purpose in the beginning was the plan or something of that effect purpose plan etc and conveying the original meaning of the word showing how Gods purpose became embodied in Christ.

Well, contrary to common thinking, the Greek word logos doesn't really mean just "word," but rather, "the expression of a thought." So, your theory that more is implied, is true. For, expression of a thought implies a total plan.

For an example of the use of the word, consider the word "theology." It is a combination of two Greek words, Theos and logos, which doesn't just mean God's words, but an entire study or knowledge about God.

Actually, if you examine what John was saying closely, you'll see that he was really explaining the meaning of Genesis 1:1, 2, for both accounts start out with the words "In the beginning." Then Genesis says that God spoke, and it came to be; and John tells us who brought about what He said, the Word, or the expression of God's thoughts or purposes.

Philo (20 BC - 50 AD), a Hellenized Jew, used the term logos to mean the creative principle. Philo followed the Platonic distinction between imperfect matter and perfect idea. The logos was necessary, he taught, because God cannot come into contact with matter. He sometimes identified logos as divine wisdom.

He taught that the Logos was the image of God, after which the human mind was made. He said the logos was: “ the archangel with many names -taxiarch” the expiator of sins, and the mediator and advocate for men. He said the Logos is a kind of shadow cast by God, having the outlines but not the blinding light of the Divine Being.

The Logos as "interpreter" announces God's designs to man.” (Taken from the Jewish Encyclopedia). “The Logos is the first-born and the eldest and chief of the angels.”

The author of John adapted Philo's concept of the Logos, identifying Jesus as an incarnation of the divine Logos that formed the universe.

I agree to a point yannis, however by the time of philo hellenisation and greek philosophy became integrated into judaism to a degree, but john, was not effected by philo, john expounded the truth in the way God who inspired him intended.

I believe the word, means Gods plan and expression of though, as you said, and that when it became flesh it means that Gods plan became incarnated into flesh, the man Jesus Christ, who was the perfect reflection ,the image of God, as man was intended to be, I think the Word referred to the plan of salvation and much more for the whole world.

Tha plan, which began with Adam, and was perfected and came together in Christ the one to whom the whole plan pointed, I don't think this scripture is trinitarian at all, nor do I think it lists a being as pre existant as much of a plan which came together in Christ, nor is it proof for no pre existence, but I think translating it other than word would be more accurate to convey the truth of the passage and what John was trying to get across, whether you Trinitarian Jw or Unitarian.

I just had a though, the wt says the word means he's Gods Chief Spokesman, but it really means so much more, it means he's the embodiement of Gods purpose, his divine plan and The Spokesman of God, if that corny word must be used "spokesmen" I remember reciting it as a child not even knowing why, I'd reason word = spoken= spokesman how funny.

...Did the holy spirit become flesh? And dwell among us, Jesus did and while he was here, he had the Power of the Spirit at his disposal, but he is the word, or plan of God embodied. God may use the Holy Spirit, Christ may also, and through Christ so can we, but the Word, became Christ.

Since God the Father spoke all things into existence. It was simply His word along with the Holy Spirit that created all things.

The preincarnate Christ is all the " God said " actions of Genesis 1

1 In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth ( Father Son and Spirit= God) all are involved in creation ) . 2 The earth was without form, and void; and darkness was[a] on the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God was hovering over the face of the waters.



3 Then God said, “Let there be light”; and there was light.
( The Word " in Him was Light " )

( 1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. )

[ John very purposely starts his writing with " In the beginning " to show the reader that Jesus is the God of all creation and most definitely NOT a creation of God )

4 And God saw the light, that it was good; and God divided the light from the darkness. 5 God called the light Day, and the darkness He called Night. So the evening and the morning were the first day.

6 Then God said, “Let there be a firmament in the midst of the waters, and let it divide the waters from the waters.” ( The Word )7 Thus God made the firmament, and divided the waters which were under the firmament from the waters which were above the firmament; and it was so. 8 And God called the firmament Heaven. So the evening and the morning were the second day.


9 Then God said, “Let the waters under the heavens be gathered together into one place, and let the dry land appear”( The Word ); and it was so. 10 And God called the dry land Earth, and the gathering together of the waters He called Seas. And God saw that it was good.
11 Then God said, “Let the earth bring forth grass, the herb that yields seed, and the fruit tree that yields fruit according to its kind, whose seed is in itself, on the earth”; ( The Word )and it was so. 12 And the earth brought forth grass, the herb that yields seed according to its kind, and the tree that yields fruit, whose seed is in itself according to its kind. And God saw that it was good. 13 So the evening and the morning were the third day.
14 Then God said, “Let there be lights in the firmament of the heavens to divide the day from the night; and let them be for signs and seasons, and for days and years; 15 and let them be for lights in the firmament of the heavens to give light on the earth”;( The Word ) and it was so. 16 Then God made two great lights: the greater light to rule the day, and the lesser light to rule the night. He made the stars also. 17 God set them in the firmament of the heavens to give light on the earth, 18 and to rule over the day and over the night, and to divide the light from the darkness. And God saw that it was good. 19 So the evening and the morning were the fourth day.
20 Then God said, “Let the waters abound with an abundance of living creatures, and let birds fly above the earth across the face of the firmament of the heavens.” 21 So God created great sea creatures and every living thing that moves, with which the waters abounded, according to their kind, and every winged bird according to its kind. And God saw that it was good. 22 And God blessed them, saying, “Be fruitful and multiply, and fill the waters in the seas, and let birds multiply on the earth.” 23 So the evening and the morning were the fifth day.
24 Then God said, “Let the earth bring forth the living creature according to its kind: cattle and creeping thing and beast of the earth, each according to its kind”; and it was so. 25 And God made the beast of the earth according to its kind, cattle according to its kind, and everything that creeps on the earth according to its kind. And God saw that it was good.
26 Then God said, “[b]Let Us make man in Our image, according to Our likeness; let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, over the birds of the air, and over the cattle, over all the earth and over every creeping thing that creeps on the earth.”[/b]( The Word ) 27 So God created man in His own image; in the image of God He created him; male and female He created them. 28 Then God blessed them, and God said to them, “Be fruitful and multiply; fill the earth and subdue it; have dominion over the fish of the sea, over the birds of the air, and over every living thing that moves on the earth.”
29 And God said, “See, I have given you every herb that yields seed which is on the face of all the earth, and every tree whose fruit yields seed; to you it shall be for food. 30 Also, to every beast of the earth, to every bird of the air, and to everything that creeps on the earth, in which there is life, I have given every green herb for food”; ( The Word ) and it was so. 31 Then God saw everything that He had made, and indeed it was very good. So the evening and the morning were the sixth day.


If you look closely at Jesus how did He stop the ragging sea " by His word " He simply speaks and creation listens, He casts out Demons, raises the dead, heals people all " By simply speaking "

Be still, come forth,rise and walk the Powerful Word of God dwelling in flesh.

BB:happyheart::heartbeat::happyheart:

====================================================
Steam says:
John 1:1- "In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with Gos, and the Word was a god."

This verse explains that a person is the Word and a mighty one at that.

Actually it doesn't, it explains the word became a person, but the word word means expression of thought, plan, divine purpose, not person I mean does word mean person in english? Only because of tradition, but that word logos does not mean a person until it became a person, God is the Father, a God is an incorrect translation, doesn't mean a trinity without it it means the plan or purpose, word was God a part of him even and when the word became flesh, the Word became embodied in a person.

Jesus Christ when he was born became the unique expression of the wisdom of God, the emobiement of the divine purpose.

Well I mean your sort of right but it wasn't limited to the HS but I can see how your looking at it, check out this explanation it good.

http://www.focusonthekingdom.org/articles/john1.htm

Really good explanation

I believe wisdom is the wisdom of God there given personality attributes to describe it, but I'm not disagreeing really but expounding check that rticle out, I'm at work on my blackberry so I can copy and paste it, it could very well help you articulate what you mean better, as they are all points which you would probably agree with to a large degree, check the article link I posted out, maybe you could paste it as I'm at work.

Hi S of C

Re: "...word was God a part of him even and when the word became flesh,"

Contrary to your statement: a part of him"......

scripture states: "and the Word was with God"

Why deliberately change meaning of very clear scripture? ("With" is not "part of".)

.02,

gogh