Paradise Cafe Discussions - A Place For Bible Research And Christian Encouragement

Greetings fellow slaves!! :clap:



Hows it going, friends? :hug:



'If you can'?" said Jesus. "Everything is possible for him who believes." -- Mark 9:23


Awesome scripture, isnt it? :thumbsup:

It is one of many that speak of the power of Faith, Belief and Possibility. They all share the same Truths -- Ask, Believe, Receive -- our Father and our Lord provide everything for us -- and that existence is far more fluid and receptive than some clockwork machine.

Yet how much do we really believe scriptures like these?

I am hoping to get a discussion underway about your thoughts, feelings and perceptions and experiences with regards to this phenomena, which, I believe, is intergral to the Christian faith.

So here are some questions to get us started >

What are the limits? :dontknow:
What dictates the limits? :dontknow:
Who dictates the limits? :dontknow:
What can be asked for? :dontknow:
Who was Jesus talking about? :dontknow:
What is truly possible today? :dontknow:
Is this scripture, and others like it, literal or figurative? :dontknow:
If things are working for us, why are they working? :dontknow:
If they are not, why not? :dontknow:
If Jesus has promised to give to those who ask in faith, and yet they do not receive, could there be other factors involved e.g limiting beliefs, conditioning etc? :dontknow:
How can we be in a position to receive what we ask for? :dontknow:
What is needed to ask? :dontknow:
Can we ask for others? :dontknow:
Can we block what we ask for? :dontknow:
Is it possible that when we ask, our perception, or beliefs around deservedness and worthiness can effect the outcome? :dontknow:


I am looking forward to your thoughts! Come on...dont be shy!! :thumbsup:


Cheers! :friends:


"He who did not spare his own Son, but gave him up for us all—how will he not also, along with him, graciously give us all things?" -- Romans 8:32

May LOVE be with you!

your bro -- beau! :friends::friends::friends:

I'm on my first cup of coffee, no breakfast and a bunch of meds from the Dr.

I think I got a headache trying to even think a thought past a question. They are so deep and thought provoking that going back to bed seems more appealing. LOL

Love your spirit!

With Christian Love, Debbie

Hey Little beau peep,

In short their are limitations,
and we are a large part of that limit in my opinion.

And An added ? might be
what are all things that he will give? " graciously give us all things"

Great topic. :funnyface:

Hey Debbie!! :clap:


Hows it going, sister? :hug:

Well, if I can suggest perhaps having a go of my breakfast!


First > If you are lucky enough to have a lemon tree, or if they are cheap in your area - have two large glasses of water, with half a lemon squeezed into each. Swig those down, then go for a brisk 20-30 min walk.

Come back home and if possible blend some beetroot, apple, carrots, celery, parsnip, lemon or whatever else you can think of - drink that - about a large glass worth, then do some weight lifting and/or cardio workouts.

Should take about an 30mins to an hour, then for the good stuff! --> Oatmeal!! or Porridge as we call it downunder!

If you arent a fan of oatmeal, I suggest you become one! Its AWESOME stuff, especially when cooked nicely!

Our personal favourite at the moment, is Oatmeal, dates, strawberries, and a banana. Cook it all together, then once cooked add SoyMilk, and you've got yourself an extremely healthy and energy abundant brekky! Ive also read that Oatmeal can lower cholesterol, or inhibit its uptake (or something like that!) and that Oatmeal also has a low G.I, which is great for kids!


Give it a go! :thumbsup:

Thanks matey! I love your spirit, too! You have a lot to offer those around you, including us! Thank you for sharing! :thumbsup:

May LOVE be with you!

your bro -- beau! :friends::friends::friends:

Hi Beau,

There is a humungous gap between the potential of faith, in terms of moving mountains and the lack of evidence of the power of the holy spirit that we generally see today. I think the gap stays true whether we view Jesus’ words as literal or figurative. Maybe the Benny Hinn followers think otherwise. They see miracles where I see skulduggery.

I often think it is because we live in an in-between time, between the time in the first century when the spirit was so powerful and so evident, and the time in the future when the spiritual wheat shine again.

But even if we do live in a period of low spiritual activity, nonetheless things happen. I pray and I get help, even though I miss the mark very badly and quite often. My own experience of life tells me that the Christian life draws persecution to itself, like two different spirits that recognise each other immediately and naturally work against each other. I think if a Christian is not persecuted, they need to get on track because something is not right. We accept that the identifying mark of a Christian is love for the brothers and sisters, however theoretically, but rarely look on persecution as a valid identifier of a Christian life.

There is little opportunity for the spirit to work if we are discreet enough to make our faith safe. Discretion is often viewed as almost a fruit of the spirit because it is advised in the Wisdom books. I think it needs to be viewed within the framework of Jesus’ words, and not converted into a cheap version of the spirit.

Regards,
Brendan.

Hey Franky!! :clap:


Hows it going brother? :thumbsup:

How did you know it was me? The guy at the shop said no one would realise it was me! Unless you get your dresses at the same place too? :thumbsup:

I would imagine there are limitations and have seen and felt those limitations in my own experience, yet I have also had some absolutely amazing experiences too! I am quite certain that our own beliefs - subconscious beliefs - could play a part in whether or not something jumps from Possibility to Actuality.

I agree that we are a large part of the limit -- what I would like to ascertain - is what are the boundaries of our influence and God's influence? Its obvious that God has the biggest part to play - yet there has to be some human influence too.

Why can I pray for something to happen, and it does? :dontknow:

Why can I pray for something to happen, and it doesnt? :dontknow:

Is it around our own worthiness or deservedness of God's gifts that we do or do not receive what we ask for? :dontknow:

What about God's timing? His thoughts are higher than our own, so perhaps we do get what we need, and not necessarily what we want? :dontknow:

Motive - why do we ask? What about the Ecology of what we are asking for? Who is it going to influence? Will others be affected? If so, is that a negative or positive affect? :dontknow:

There are definitely some elements of both human influence and God influence.

In the first scripture used, 'If you can'?" said Jesus. "Everything is possible for him who believes." -- Mark 9:23 -- It is "Belief" that Jesus highlights, and not necessarily Faith, although the two can be said to be closely linked together.

So what is this "Believes" or "Belief" -- is it theological? Im not sure about that. I would say no. Is it subconscious? Im thinking yes.

"If any of you lacks wisdom, he should ask God, who gives generously to all without finding fault, and it will be given to him. But when he asks, he must believe and not doubt, because he who doubts is like a wave of the sea, blown and tossed by the wind. That man should not think he will receive anything from the Lord" -- James 1:5-7

While these verses are talking about Wisdom, in the situation of persecution (v.1-4) - the same principles of Asking, Belief, and Receiving and not giving into doubt are inherent, and also found in other scriptures >

Jesus replied, "I tell you the truth, if you have faith and do not doubt,.....and it will be done. If you believe, you will receive whatever you ask for in prayer." -- Matthew 21:21-22

Jesus words here also put Faith into the mix - so "Belief" can be subconscious (our own thought patterns, limiting beliefs) and yet it is more than that.


So where does man step in, and where does God step in? :dontknow:

Ahhh -- great question! :thumbsup:

"But seek first his kingdom and his righteousness, and all these things will be given to you as well." -- Matthew 6:33

I imagine that the things that He will give, are tied up in Matthew 6:33.

So what are they? :dontknow:

Basic necessities? Fellowship? What about people in hard economic or war torn situations? How do these scriptures come into play? :dontknow:

My own experience of the working of this scripture seems as though it would be very diferrent to someone who lives in Sudan, Iraq or somewhere else similar.

Why is this? Can God only work in areas with strong Belief? :dontknow:

Do we, as citizens of western countries, who arguably have it WAY better than most people on earth - have a large responsibility to sort out our own lives, in order to be of service to Christs Body in other parts of the world? :dontknow:

Graciously give us all things -- this seems subjective and relative to a persons situation, as all things to me, wont be all things to another.

So what are the limits of that? :dontknow:

Or better yet -- what are the limits of God? :thumbsup:

May LOVE be with you!

your bro -- beau! :friends::friends::friends:

There are many issues social or psychological that people refuse to look into. Many people on their death bed look back on their life and really regret not having healed their relationships with some of their friends, or father or mother. Ignoring these important things become a big spiritual problem if you die without solving them.

Those who have been given much will have a lot expected from them. This puts a whole new perspective on praying for more things too.

Hi Beau et all :hibye:

Odd isn't it - we've all met people who pray for a newish car, specifying make and model and price range please. Maybe Jesus was refering to himself - that the Messiah there was a special time (all too short for many) and that faith in him while there really did mean all things were possible. The notion of "faith moving mountains" and "whatever you ask in my name" was certainly true for the apostles, but then.... they did have a special task ahead of them - and they were given authority to heal and cast our demons and all manner of things.

I keep thinking of the apostle Paul with his "thorn in the side"? - whatever it was that he simply couldn't get right - and how he asked our Lord three times to remove it from him. Paul had real faith, yes? But the reply was:

‘My undeserved kindness is sufficient for you; for my power is being made perfect in weakness.’

2nd Corinthians 12:9a...

So... perhaps this qualifies things for us? We're never going to be right on our own - faith or no faith - we actually need God, rather than rely on our own belief - Paul showed that. God can do many things, but only we can show we value Him. He can't get that love and confidence from us except as a gift, and how wellthat gift vindicates His reputation in the Heavens over those who rebelled against Him!

So... perhaps in our taking Jesus' words on this to Paul, we can show our appreciation over his promise that "all things are possible to those with faith" - the notion of our "gaining" - we can show our faith in a greater way by our saying:

"Thank you! - yet by giving such kind words You already strengthen us as much as we need"

- the notion of our "giving", or as Paul put it:

Most gladly, therefore, will I rather boast as respects my weaknesses, that the power of the Christ may remain over me like a tent.

...2nd Corinthians 12:9b

A little like the 24 elders in Revelation who wear crowns, but threw them in appreciation toward the throne of Jehovah (Revelation 4:9-11):

"Thank you for immortality and kingship, but it's nothing without You."

Our feeling of sufficiency perhaps? Our appreciation? Our spiritual maturity...?

Great thread Beau,:clap: wish I'd thought of it!:siskiss:

Acts5v29:hibye: