Paradise Cafe Discussions - A Place For Bible Research And Christian Encouragement

For a religion that claims it teaches what Jesus taught, christianity and its most fundamental doctrines (physical second coming, vicarious atonement of Jesus Christ for us, original sin).

Why did Jesus hardly emphasize at all how important it was that people accept his sacrifice on the cross as atonement for their sins?
What if i didnt want Jesus to die for my sins? Is it justice if he did against my will?
How important does jesus think it is that i solve my own problems and how much is he going to fix for me? How much did Jesus emphasize people solving their own problems?

How can we do the works that Jesus did if we do not become as he is and why doesnt any christian of any sect come near the kind of powerfull preaching that Jesus did let alone do more in any way then Jesus?

The kingdom of God is inside of us? Shall i take a microscope and look for saint peter at the pearly gate inwardly?

What is the difference between talking to an angel in person and praying to one and can we just non-prayingly talk to an angel not in person (in some kind of body)?

Does God love us unconditionally and if he does not is he omnibenevolant?

How much of the bibles statements pertains to the physical world? What is the heaven which shall hold the thunder that announces the second coming of Christ, is it physical? Does the bible speak of the physical world only and if it does why didnt the apostles eat Jesus when they were told to?

If we have any fear, do we have the perfect love of God? And if we do how come give or take all christians have fears atleast until they die.

At which point did Jesus decide his apostles had the absolute truth? If he didnt why do we take the words of the apostles as holy?

Can the truth about God be taught in language only if it can why did Jesus not? And if it can not, is the bible holy or whole?

Was Jesus a mystik?

Does Jesus love everyone and if he does why was he so mean to the pharisees?

What does it mean that Jesus was going to be with us always even though many a christian does not try even to communicate with him?

Does Jesus have the spirit of truth and if he does, he do we know when it is the spirit of truth speaking and when it is Jesus himself and specificly which bible passages are from Jesus speaking and which are from the spirit of truth?

Lots and lots of questions! I think I'll have to break up my answers into more than one message. Here is my take on some of what you are asking:

Acceptance of his sacrifice requires belief in him, it cannot be any other way. And many times he spoke of the importance of that belief: John 3:15-16,36, John 4:10, John 5:24, John 6:27,40,47, 50-51, 54, John 8:24, John 10:27-28, John 11:26, 50...shall I go on?

We haven't been saved against our will, we do have a choice as to whether or not he died for our sins. If we don't want his death to cover us, we simply need to reject the whole idea. John 3:18, John 8:24, John 10:26.

So, what is Jesus going to fix for you? He's fixing your curse of sin Mark 2:17, John 6:38, John 12:27, 47.How much did he emphasize people solving their problems? Jesus encouraged people to solve their own issues all the time: Luke 12:13-14, Matthew 5:23-24, Matthew 5:39-44.

Because if we could do that, we wouldn't be under the curse of sin (because to be like him means to be sinless). If we were not under the curse of sin, he wouldn't have had to die in the first place. But that doesn't mean we can't strive to achieve as much righteousness as we can. Just because we sin doesn't mean we're incapable of doing anything right.

What's the difference between talking to an angel and praying to one? It is the same difference between talking to a human and praying to one. If you are simply talking to the Pope, are you doing the same thing as praying to him? Of course not, those are two completely different modes of communication. Can we speak "non-prayingly" to an angel? I suppose we can speak all we want....it's a matter of whether or not it is against their protocols to respond.

God loves everyone and doesn't want anyone to be destroyed: 2 Peter 3:9. Remember, God is Love 1 John 4:8, and love never fails 1 Corinthians 13:8.
It is not that God loves us conditionally, it's that he allows us our free will. If our free will leads us to reject Christ and lose our salvation, then we must suffer the consequences. God's love isn't taken away, it's our getting what we are due. For example, if you have a child who grows up and does something that the law says is deserving of the death penalty, your love for your child cannot save him or her. The child must simply endure the consequences of his or her own actions. You still love your child completely, but that won't save him or her. Same thing with salvation: The law is the law-- acceptance of Christ is the only way out of the sin curse. God cannot overturn the law anymore than you can overturn the law for your wayward child.

I will go on with the remaining questions in a later post.

Love,
Tami

?????
Do you prefer cows' milk, goats' milk, or....biblical milk?

agape,
James

Hi Spiceant, Lets do a little test?

Lets say you died and now you find yourself before God to plead your case to him. I would think you might say, I am some what of a good person and your a God of Love and Mercy so how about it let me into Eternity with you.

He might say, my Son came to point out how "good" you really are Spiceant.

He said if you have even looked at a woman with lust you have commited Adultery in your Heart. And I call one who does this an Adulter.

He also said that if you have harbored hatred in your Heart toward another person you have commited Murder in your Heart.and I call that one a Murder.

He also said that you are to Love me with ALL you Heart and mind and Soul, did you do that?

Did you know as well that I consider one who steals a paper clip or 1,000,000 dollars the same in charactor I label them " A Thief "

And here is what I have to say about those who do these things.

1 Corinth 6:9,10
Do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived. Neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor homosexuals, nor sodomites,10 nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners will inherit the kingdom of God.


Rev 21:8 But the cowardly, unbelieving, abominable, murderers, sexually immoral, sorcerers, idolaters, and all liars shall have their part in the lake which burns with fire and brimstone, which is the second death.”


So Spiceant do you think you can solve your own problem?
( not my question God's )
Or do you need My Son?

Dear BethelBoy,

You've got a whole lotta doctorine and not much heart in your teaching.

Hoping you'll realize that your path is just as hypocritical and wrong as any WTBTS that we have followed.

Jesus taught love, not judgement or doctorine.

With Christian Love as Always, Debbie

Some excellent points brother.

It would seem that the major problem that most people we meet have is this, they know about Christ but He is anything from a swear word to a less-than-almighty One; in other words He by definition cannot be their Lord. A man cannot be the servant of two masters.

Either Christ is Lord of all, or He is not Lord at all.

Choose you this day whom you will serve......

Hi Debbie, The points I stressed apply to all of us not just Spiceant, the doctrine of the depravity of man is biblically based from the womb forward. My point was you can't Save yourself. If that is some kind of new heresy let me know.

Blessings BB
:happyheart::heartbeat::happyheart:

Dear Bethelboy,

Explain to me how your post is supposed to encourage Spiceant.

I see how she is being told, "BELIEVE, OR YOU WILL DIE!!!"

Seems like a harsh way to explain Jehovah God's justice or why we believe in Jesus's ransom sacrifice.


Dear Spiceant,

Your questions are very deep. I applaud your inquisitive nature. I don't have any answers for you, right now. I would rather meditate about it and get back to you.

With Christian Love, Debbie

While I'm not a big fan of TWOTM way of preaching, sometimes we have to realise just how bad we are, so that we can appreciate just what a amazing thing Jesus has done for us.


Its so easy for us to think that if we're not out there murdering, stealing or sleeping around then we must be ok. We're not. Our righteousness is as filthy rags.

When you're in His presence and you look anywhere but Him, you want the floor to swallow you up, because being in His presence really does magnify our own horribleness, that's why we have to look to Him in all things. Because when we focus on Him, we, and our yukkyness, ceases to matter.

That the Father would credit Jesus' sinlessness and righteousness to us still amazes me.

Without Him, no matter how hard we work, no matter what we do, we are poor, wreched, naked, sinful and condemned. Yet our Father doesn't want that for us, He wants the very best for us. It's not nice to realise how lost we are without Jesus, but realising this does make us realise what an absolutely awsomely wonderful God we worship, who loves us so much that, even while we were in that horrible, sinful state, would send his own son to die for us, to reconcile us to himself.


So I totally understand BB's method, it pulls no punches. I don't see it as a threat, simply as reality.

Oddly, I just don't see how this answers Spiceants questions.

With Christian Love, Debbie

Debbie,

Tell that to Jesus:

Jesus answered, "Do you think that these Galileans were worse sinners than all the other Galileans because they suffered this way? I tell you, no! But unless you repent, you too will all perish. Or those eighteen who died when the tower in Siloam fell on them--do you think they were more guilty than all the others living in Jerusalem? I tell you, no! But unless you repent, you too will all perish."
(Luke 13:2-5 TNIV)

Or what about Jesus' response to the Pharisees in Matthew 23?

I think the best thing for Spice Ant to do is to repent and trust in Jesus Christ alone for salvation. Spice Ant, you need a personal relationship with Jesus.

Matt

Dear Spiceant,

Proverbs 8:30,31

30Then (AO)I was beside Him, as a master workman;
And I was daily His delight,
Rejoicing always before Him,
31Rejoicing in the world, His earth,
And having (AP)my delight in the sons of men.


I find chapter 8 of the book of Proverbs to be beautiful. The chapter shows love by Jehovah, Jesus's creation, and how Jesus loved the sons of man. The ending of the chapter even brings out how Jehovah wants us to seek him. I think that it the most wonderful part about our Creator. He wants us to seek Him and get to know Him. When we look at our Creator's beautiful qualities it cultivates our relationship. When we read about Jesus's likes and dislikes, as he is sharing from his Father's perspective; we then see what wonderful compassionate qualities that they have for us.


Why did Jesus condemn the Pharisees and Saducees?

Because they made up a lot of rules that hurt the people. They condemned people and didn't teach the love of God.

When we search though the new testament we see where holy spirit was given to the lowly, weak, foolish; the ones that the Pharisees would look down upon. The Pharisees would have condemned these lowlifes as being disgusting sinners.

Yet, IT WAS the adulterers, fornicators, murderers, thieves, etc...that were GIVEN the very gift of Holy Spirit. They were forgiven of their sins and 'bought' from the earth.


In similiar fashion, many ministers do the same thing. They teach condemnation. By teaching condemnation they are preaching fear. Fear does not cultivate love. Many ministers today act like the Pharisees. By condemning sinners to the pits of hell, they are holding people back from the kingdom of the heavens.

Jesus preached mercy, not judgement.

James 2:13 "...mercy exhaults triumphantly over judgement."

With Christian Love, Debbie

Yes, but not without repentance.

In the past God overlooked such ignorance, but now he commands all people everywhere to repent. For he has set a day when he will judge the world with justice by the man he has appointed. He has given proof of this to everyone by raising him from the dead."
(Acts 17:30-31 TNIV)

More correctly:

Jesus preached mercy to those who believe, and judgment for those who don't believe.

For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life. For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but to save the world through him. Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe stands condemned already because they have not believed in the name of God's one and only Son. This is the verdict: Light has come into the world, but people loved darkness instead of light because their deeds were evil.
(John 3:16-19 TNIV)

Thanks,

Matt

Wow! I'm sure that sets a fine Christian tone.

This may come as a surprise, but I think Spiceant is asking questions about cultivating FAITH.

So now an individual that desires faith stregthening reasoning should be told, "You need to REPENT...!"

Not a note of judgement coming from that statement, is there? Its exactly that kind of fanatacism that turn people away from loving our Creator. And its exactly the same mentality that was described of the Pharisees.

With Christian Love, Debbie