Hi friends. In the past couple of months, this theory had been congealing in my mind. I would welcome your ideas. I believe that the Logos is the Holy Spirit, who became flesh in the man Jesus.
No Trinity discussion please.
Jn1:14, 14 So the Word became flesh and resided among us, and we had a view of his glory, a glory such as belongs to an only-begotten son from a father; and he was full of undeserved kindness and truth.
We know that the Logos is (a) spirit, and that the HS is holy, being the only begotten son of YHWH, and, the Logos was incarnated as Jesus, Jn 1:14. So the question is, is the HS (the) Logos? I think yes.
After Pentecost, HS was given to Jesus' faithful. The HS is referred to as the "helper" in Jn. :16:7. The Helper is also call "the spirit of the truth", Jn.14:17, and Helper is also said to teach. Notice Jn 14:26,
26 But the helper, the holy spirit, which the Father will send in my name, that one will teach YOU all things and bring back to YOUR minds all the things I told YOU. Earlier, in the same conversation Jesus was having with his apostles at Jn 13:13, Jesus said,
"13 YOU address me, ‘Teacher,’ and, ‘Lord,’ and YOU speak rightly, for I am such."
In fact, in Ch 16, everything Jesus says about the HS, could also be said about Jesus.
Jn 16:13, "13 However, when that one arrives, the spirit of the truth, he will guide YOU into all the truth, for he will not speak of his own impulse, but what things he hears he will speak, and he will declare to YOU the things coming."
Doesn't this sound exactly like Jesus?
In Jn14:23 Jesus said the following,
"23 In answer Jesus said to him: “If anyone loves me, he will observe my word, and my Father will love him, and we shall come to him and make our abode with him"
Isn't this exactly what the HS will do also.? :happyheart
Holy Spirit is a something. A Something that can be given to those that ask for it.
Luke 11:2...
"So he told them, "Whenever you pray you are to say, 'Father, may your name be kept holy. May your kingdom come.
Keep giving us every day our daily bread,
and forgive us our sins, as we forgive everyone who sins against us. And never bring us into temptation.'"
Then he said to them, "Suppose one of you has a friend, and you go to him at midnight and say to him, 'Friend, let me borrow three loaves of bread.
A friend of mine on a trip has dropped in on me, and I don't have anything to serve him.'
Suppose he answers from inside, 'Stop bothering me! The door is already locked, and my children are with me in bed. I can't get up and give you anything!'
I tell you, even though he doesn't want to get up and give him anything because he is his friend, he will get up and give him whatever he needs because of his persistence.
So I say to you: Keep asking, and it will be given you. Keep searching, and you will find. Keep knocking, and the door will be opened for you.
For everyone who keeps asking will receive, and the person who keeps searching will find, and the person who keeps knocking will have the door opened.
"What father among you, if his son asks for bread, would give him a stone, or if he asks for a fish, would give him a snake instead of the fish?
Or if he asks for an egg, would he give him a scorpion?
So if you who are evil know how to give good gifts to your children, how much more will the Father in heaven give the Holy Spirit to those who keep asking him!"
Our Master Jesus, being given all authority, is the one positioned to offer/give Holy Spirit to those asking for it. (imo).
Evidence of being given Holy Spirit is the fruitage Holy Spirit produces...
Galatians 5:22...
"But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness,
gentleness, and self-control. There is no law against such things.
Now those who belong to Christ Jesus have crucified their flesh with its passions and desires.
If we live by the Spirit, let us also be guided by the Spirit."
Can ya'll dig it...?
groovy baby...
:friends::hug::drinking:
Christian love,
gogh
Hi gogh! thanks for your input. I know what you're saying. That if Jesus can give HS so that the HS can be in us, it sounds like the HS is something other then himself. But he also said that {HE} will be in us. Jn14:20, (Interlinear and others).
I think that Jesus being in us is the same as the HS being in us.
I realize that this is not conclusive, but we must look at all possibilities.:detective:
Howdy e-m
Satan entered into/went into Judas.
Luke 22:3 "But Satan went into Judas called Iscariot, who belonged to the circle of the twelve."
John 13:27 "After he had taken the piece of bread, Satan entered him. Then Jesus said to him, "Do quickly what you are going to do!"
Therefore having holy or wicked spirit within/in us will manifest itself by the decisions we make and in turn produce fruitage (good or bad) of that spirit........thus showing what (not who/whom) holy spirit is (and is not....grin)
greetings
gogh
I'm curious e-magine,
Do you post information on Wikipedia?
Thank you in advance for your reply.
With Christian Love, Debbie
Hi Deb,
...No.
now I'm curious??
I had once seriously considered this too, EM. I dismissed the thoughts, but they pop-up from time-to-time - brain "niggles" I think that's called. ;)
There are so many questions ---- was there a time when Ye'shua did not possess or embody the Holy Spirit? Perhaps from the moment of his conception in Mary, during his early human life, and before his baptism? If so - where was it?
....paraclete....
Many questions, so few concrete answers...:thinking:
:peace:
Dear E-magine,
Because I have never heard of the word logos before. I googled the word and clicked on the wikipedia site. There was a sentence about Jesus as Logos/holy spirit reincarnated. I just wondered if you posted something tlike that or if you were learning from something like that.
You all realize (living in the south too long) that holy spirit was in existance before the new testament, don't ya?
With Christian Love, Debbie
:friends:
Hello Emagine:
I really liked what you said and I would like to arouse some more thoughts.. Let's put the HS in John 1:1 and see how it sounds.
In the beginning was the HS and the HS was w/ God and the HS was God. He was w/ God in the beginning. Through him all things were made. vs. 14 The HS became flesh and made his dwelling among us.
So, I'm wondering since Jesus had the fullness of the spirit dwell in him. Do you think in Col. 1:16 it may be talking about the HS? "For by him all things were created, things in heaven ...all things were created by him and for him."
And what about the master worker called 'wisdom' in Prv. 8:12 - 36? The JW's say it's Jesus/Michael. But as I read it over it sounds like it's the HS or the Logo. What do you say?
So then when God said "Let us made man in our image", he was talking to the HS or himself sort of, right?
Now, because Jesus is called the first born of all creation, and the only begotten son, do you think it's because he was talking about the HS that dwelt fully in him? When it says, God sent his first born into the world, then is he talking about sending the HS into the world? This has large ramafications that you are saying? Now could it also mean that when Jesus said, 'Before Abraham was, I was', could he be talking about the HS.
Also, when Mary was overshadowed by HS and concieved by the HS, could this mean that instead of Michael the arch angel entering the fetus, that the holy spirit entered her and became flesh? hmmmm.
This could also mean that Jesus may not have had a pre-human existence as a spirit creature, by God's side. . Okay this is getting out of control.. any comments?
Because I have never heard of the word logos before. I googled the word and clicked on the wikipedia site. There was a sentence about Jesus as Logos/holy spirit reincarnated. I just wondered if you posted something tlike that or if you were learning from something like that.
You all realize (living in the south too long) that holy spirit was in existance before the new testament, don't ya?
Hi Debbie :wave:
Logos is the Greek word for 'Word' - Jesus Christ is the Word of God - like when the Father speaks, the Son does the vocalizing.
John 1:1. Yes, the Logos also existed way before New Testament times - from "the beginning".
I wouldn't take anything Wikipedia says as 'gospel truth' - it can be edited and added to by anyone with an agenda.
Btw - y'all's cool - I love "y'all"!
We're just tossing around ideas, sis. Like I said, I once seriously considered the possibility... but the refutations being brought forward now are the reasons I dismissed it then. It's good to revisit the subject and talk it out amongst friends.:friends:(without treating anyone like they're overly nutty... we're all a bit nutty, or maybe I should just speak for myself - I'm a bit nutty, just a bit, lol.:funnyface:)
Love to all:grouphug:
:peace:
:friends:
Hello Emagine:
I really liked what you said and I would like to arouse some more thoughts.. Let's put the HS in John 1:1 and see how it sounds.
In the beginning was the HS and the HS was w/ God and the HS was God. He was w/ God in the beginning. Through him all things were made. vs. 14 The HS became flesh and made his dwelling among us.
So, I'm wondering since Jesus had the fullness of the spirit dwell in him. Do you think in Col. 1:16 it may be talking about the HS? "For by him all things were created, things in heaven ...all things were created by him and for him."
And what about the master worker called 'wisdom' in Prv. 8:12 - 36? The JW's say it's Jesus/Michael. But as I read it over it sounds like it's the HS or the Logo. What do you say?
So then when God said "Let us made man in our image", he was talking to the HS or himself sort of, right?
Now, because Jesus is called the first born of all creation, and the only begotten son, do you think it's because he was talking about the HS that dwelt fully in him? When it says, God sent his first born into the world, then is he talking about sending the HS into the world? This has large ramafications that you are saying? Now could it also mean that when Jesus said, 'Before Abraham was, I was', could he be talking about the HS.
Also, when Mary was overshadowed by HS and concieved by the HS, could this mean that instead of Michael the arch angel entering the fetus, that the holy spirit entered her and became flesh? hmmmm.
This could also mean that Jesus may not have had a pre-human existence as a spirit creature, by God's side. . Okay this is getting out of control.. any comments?
Hi N T!
Thanks for you consideration of this. I could answer yes to all of your postulations except the last one. It is the Logos that became Jesus as stated in John 1 and Hebrews 1. It's just that I'm thinking that the Logos is the Holy Spirit also. It's taking me awhile to get past my WT indoctrination that the H S is God's active force, but once I did, things are falling into place. This does not support the Trinity doctrin which states that all 3 are co equal and co eternal.
The truth of being able to sin against the HS is one of the more salient points to ponder.:happyheart:
8Although he was a son, he learned obedience from what he suffered 9and, once made perfect, he became the source of eternal salvation for all who obey him 10and was designated by God to be high priest in the order of Melchizedek.
Once he learned how to reflect our Father who is in Heaven while being bound in the flesh. His earthly vesel seemed ready to be filled at baptizsm is the way it always seems to me. The Spirit came down in the form of a Dove. in then indwelt in him. I think it is the same with us althou we may not recieve it in full at this time like he did.
IT also seems to me that it is able to be duplicated. and given out to as many as are going to get it. They will reside with us.
I have always believed it gets passed on throu contact of some sort.
I guess I will see if that is true with time.
Hope that isn't a side track
Hi Td!
I believe we are on the same page! Even if the H S is a person, it is still possible for a part of him to be poured out onto individuals. H S /Logos is a spirit, and not bound by physical limitations. Just as it can be said that Jesus is in us, and we are in Jesus.
John 14:20, Interlinear and most translations. :heartbeat:
Yes E,
IT seems to me to be all one in the same theme, IF adam would have chosen to allow the HS to be an active part of his life he would have given us all life instead of death. as we would already understand how the connection to our Father really is. Ti would be a part of each and evry one of Adams children. Now it has been Handed to Jesus. and he has become lifes water to any who may choose to look for the stream and we will get to the source also at some point
Hi smoldering Wick!
Your post on one of the Trinitarian motivated threads:
Quote:
Romans 8:11 (King James Version) says: "But if the Spirit of him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you, he that raised up Christ from the dead shall also quicken your mortal bodies by his Spirit that dwelleth in you."
No need to flood us with more, Wayne. Go back to the quote! Does it not say "the Spirit of him" and "his Spirit"?
It sure does because the HS is God's Spirit and since we are told that God is spirit ( a spirits spirit?) Just the fact that HS has a seperate identity from God would make it clear He is a seperate being.He also is known as the Spirit of Christ.
After considering the level of illogic in this thread I hereby resign, but leave this quote as typical of Trinitarian reasoning. It actually didn’t occur to me until later that the thread was launched by a Trinitarian whose intent in the beginning was deliberately sly and who even now asks questions in pretence of innocence in order to trap the unwary into preconceived arguments deliberately loaded and inflammatory, not unlike, ‘Is it really so you are not to eat of every tree, blah, blah blah,’ as if the perp didn’t already know. un quote SW.
SW, when the HS is referred to as (God's), it does not necessarily mean that the HS is a part of God, emanating from him. It means that the HS is his as to ownership. The Logos was begotten by YHWH, therefore, the Logos belongs to YHWH as to ownership.
The expression, "God's spirit" means the spirit belongs to God, not that it is God.
So it is easy to get confused over the meaning of the word "God's"!
Does it mean something external whose ownership belongs to God, or something that is emanating from God?
Jn. 16:13Â However, when that one arrives, the spirit of the truth, he will guide YOU into all the truth, for he will not speak of his own impulse, but what things he hears he will speak, and he will declare to YOU the things coming. 14Â That one will glorify me, because he will receive from what is mine and will declare it to YOU. 15Â All the things that the Father has are mine. That is why I said he receives from what is mine and declares [it] to YOU.
The H S/Logos belongs to YHWH and is, or became, Jesus' spirit, because the Logos/spirit became flesh, Jn 1:14. :happyheart: