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Just a few verse to ponder ( no comment )

John 14:26
But the Helper, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in My name, He will teach you all things, and bring to your remembrance all things that I said to you.

John 15:26
“But when the Helper comes, whom I shall send to you from the Father, the Spirit of truth who proceeds from the Father, He will testify of Me.

John 16:7
Nevertheless I tell you the truth. It is to your advantage that I go away; for if I do not go away, the Helper will not come to you; but if I depart, I will send Him to you.

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John 14:26
But the word, the word, whom the Father will send in My name, He will teach you all things, and bring to your remembrance all things that I said to you.

John 15:26
“But when the word comes, whom I shall send to you from the Father, the Spirit of truth who proceeds from the Father, He will testify of Me.

John 16:7
Nevertheless I tell you the truth. It is to your advantage that I go away; for if I do not go away, the word will not come to you; but if I depart, I will send Him to you.


BB:happyheart::heartbeat::happyheart:

Thanks BB!
These scrips go to prove the sentience of the word, and also that he is sent forth, as an envoy from the father, in the name,(authority), of Jesus. Also interesting that the word/logos/helper, is called the "Spirit of the Truth".
Yup! Sounds like Jesus when in the flesh! :happyheart:

36"But the testimony which I have is greater than the testimony of John; for the works which the Father has given Me to accomplish--the very works that I do--testify about Me, that the Father has sent Me.
Witness of the Father
37"And the Father who sent Me, He has testified of Me. You have neither heard His voice at any time nor seen His form.
38"You do not have His word abiding in you, for you do not believe Him whom He sent.
39"You search the Scriptures because you think that in them you have eternal life; it is these that testify about Me;

From begining to end lifes lesson is about our Lord and saviour, whose truths are in us we can only reject them as adam did. IF we love our flesh to much it seems.

So is our Lord a risen achangel? seems unlikely to me
Is our Lord about the first born of all creation? this scripts says yes
"He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of all creation."

when did creation come to life? might be the question we should ponder? back in the garden?


Ecclesiastes 7:8
The end of a matter is better than its beginning; Patience of spirit is better than haughtiness of spirit.

Hi TD, I noticed the spelling of Saviour are you a Canuck too AH?

Just a comment here. Did you know in the Bible the one born first is never the firstborn and the firstborn is never the one born first?

Cain was born first Able was the firstborn.
Ishmael was the one born first Isaac was the firstborn.

Manasseh was the one born first Ephriam is the firstborn
Gen 41:51 Joseph called the name of the firstborn Manasseh:
Jerm 31:9 Ephraim is My firstborn.

Esau was the one born first Jacob was the firstborn
Ex 4:22 “Israel is My son, My firstborn.

Eliab was the first one born David was the firstborn
1 Chron 2:13
Jesse begot Eliab his firstborn
PS 89:26 He shall cry to Me, ‘You are my Father, My God, and the rock of my salvation.’ 27 Also I will make him My firstborn,



Ruben was born first Judah was the firstborn
Adam was the one born first Christ is the firstborn
Israel was born first the Church is the Church of the firstborn

The whole of Scripture God bypasses all first borns.

So His choice is not based on Law ( the one born first had a right by Law ) but by Grace.

So working through these ones who receive the divine inheritance
He now makes His offer available to all. First or last one born. Grace is to all.

Rom 8:3
For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God, having sent his own Son, in likeness of flesh of sin, and for sin, has condemned sin in the flesh,

Col 1
15 He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn over all creation.

18 And He is the head of the body, the church, who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead, that in all things He may have the preeminence.

BB:happyheart::heartbeat::happyheart:

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Hi E I was actually trying to show how it doesn't work by inserting Word into the sentences it makes no sense?:(

BB:happyheart::heartbeat::happyheart:

As much as I would like to ‘e-magine’ this conclusion, e-magine, I can’t. there are too many incompatible scriptures in context to ignore—for me anyway.

My problem is trying to resolve the “person” issue of the ‘Holy Spirit theory’. I still think that the nature of ‘spirit’ resides deep within all thinking, conscious beings including us. I believe that Jehovah created spirit within all such living things including his own son. Otherwise how could Galatians 4:6 (New International Version) say “God sent the Spirit of his Son into our hearts?” other than using His own spirit, the same Holy Spirit given to all who seek the mind of God. There’s no mystery here. The Bible speaks plainly to me in this.

For example, Paul asks, “For who among men knows the things of a man except the spirit of man that is in him?” He also says, “So, too, no one has come to know the things of God, except the Spirit of God.” 1 Corinthians 2:11)

Then in Romans 8:16 (New International Version) he says “The Spirit himself testifies with our spirit (which is also of male gender) that we are God's children,” all of which testifies to me that Holy Spirit is no more of a separate entity than is our spirit. I may be wrong but I can’t see the scriptures are saying anything more.
:heartbeat:
sw

Yes BB,

I have seen God's rational. and I live in the southern part of Ny. pretty far drive.

I just think that it is pertinent to what Adam had lost for us all.
as Col points out he was "the firstborn from the dead"
God picks whomever he choses as special. I am ok with whomever that is. He see's what I cannot

so he was the first Living fleshly creature to my simple mind.
So even thou God considered abraham a friend was he considered to be living? I would say not. as harsh as it may sound.

I am not sure how the "spirit that we can have today is different but aparently it is extremely different as we can receive life now if we believe it seems to me. "happy are those who have not seen and yet believe"
For me personaly I think it is a point to Really understand that our Father loves us and be comfortable in my heart with it. Like when I was growing up it was not the thing for men to say I Love you, or hug or show emotions. And as I have gotten a small glimpse of our Father I am ok with all of the above. it give me a sense of real peace for some reason. I believe that is why Jesus said a comforter would be sent to us.

Wick, :friends:
I know you understand my reasoning as i do yours. If we follow the 2 paths backwards I believe we will find a convergence at the source.
Both understandings can be reconciled at the quantum level. Quantum mechanics explains some things that are otherwise outside our boundaries of common sense. For example, how a "spirit", ( a force or a being), can be in multiple places at the same time, and manifest itself in multiple forms at the same time. Also, how God's spirit, or Jesus' spirit, can be in all of us, and we also have our own spirit. This is called entanglement. Entanglement explains how we are all connected,
and part of something larger, like the trillions of living cells that make up our one body. Everything is made of the same stuff, from the same source. YHWH's Holy spirit can be a sentient being, or a powerful source. It can be concentrated, or spread out. It can communicate with our spirit, and be one with our spirit.

This is why, IMHO, we should not get emotionally charged or dogmatic about one singular view. It is interesting to discuss but not necessary for salvation. Who can know the mind of God? :happyheart:
entanglement def.
http://searchcio-midmarket.techtarget.co...28,00.html

[quote=BethelBoy]
Hi E I was actually trying to show how it doesn't work by inserting Word into the sentences it makes no sense?:(

BB:happyheart::heartbeat::happyheart:




Hi BB,
It does make sense if you keep in mind that "Word" is just another proper name for Logos, the only begotten God (Jn 1:18), and therefore he is the son of God, Jn 1:14. :happyheart:

I am not sure we can nail down the holy spirit.
" It goes where it wants"

Young's Literal Translation John 3:8

'The Spirit where he willeth doth blow, and his voice thou dost hear, but thou hast not known whence he cometh, and whither he goeth; thus is every one who hath been born of the Spirit.'
In the previous verses the word pneuma is translated as spirit.

John 3:6,7 Youngs
that which hath been born of the flesh is flesh, and that which hath been born of the Spirit is spirit. `Thou mayest not wonder that I said to thee, It behoveth you to be born from above;


NWT
8 The wind blows where it wants to, and you hear the sound of it, but you do not know where it comes from and where it is going. So is everyone that has been born from the spirit.”


We must remember that the word both in Hebrew and Greek just means wind. Most Bibles translate pneuma in John 3 verse 8 as the wind. Youngs doesn't. The wind/spirit goes where it wants.

The spirit is not something in a bottle (ha ha pathetic joke), nor is it something that can be constrained or bottled.

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I wonder if when Genesis 3 talks about the 'breeze of the day', when Jehovah could be felt (or heard) to walk around in the garden of Eden, if this might not in fact be talking about a time of day when the holy spirit was active, rather than a climate condition. :funnyface:

Hi hu!
You can correct me if I'm wrong, but I think that the reason "pneuma" can be translated "wind" in English, is because "wind" is an invisible yet powerful force, like
"pneuma", spirit.
I'm sure we agree that Logos is a spirit being, and a most holy one at that, seeing as Logos is the spirit of YHWH. YHWH can animate, or quicken his spirit at will, as he did when the Logos, the "word" of John 1:1, became flesh, and resided among us.