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In John 10v17-18 Jesus says, "The reason my Father loves me is that I lay down my life—only to take it up again. No one takes it from me, but I lay it down of my own accord. I have authority to lay it down and authority to take it up again. This command I received from my Father."

Jesus, as we learn from the scriptures had set aside His glory and for our sakes to endure Calvary was made a little lower than the angels for the suffering of death.

But who raised Him? I would appreciate your comments on this and Jesus's comment (above) concerning His life and Him having authority to "take it up again" - what does the 'good book' say? :read:

My take is this:

Christ had authority to be resurrected because he was the only human to die sinless. No other human in history has ever deserved resurrection before. Therefore, he could die with the full expectation of being brought back to life. No other person has had that kind of authority over death.

I think it seems fairly obvious that he didn't resurrect himself though, since dead people are unable to do a thing.

Hi!:hibye: and a great point!

Little point from Acts where Paul was speaking to Jews of Judaea and Jerusalem:

This Jesus God resurrected, of which fact we are all witnesses.

--- Acts 2:32

This seems to fit with Jesus' own words in Matthew 17:22-23 where he says he will be raised up (passive), not will raise himself us (active).
And him saying to His Father:

Father, into Your hands I entrust my spirit.

--- Luke 23:46

It's a good example of trust isn't it - that the first spirit creature to have his spirit return to Jehovah trusted Him to give him his life back. And He did! Helps us build a bit more confidence, doesn't it.

Acts5v29

Good topic for discussion, TP. :thumbup:

John 2:14 In the temple courts he found men selling cattle, sheep and doves, and others sitting at tables exchanging money. 15 So he made a whip out of cords, and drove all from the temple area, both sheep and cattle; he scattered the coins of the money changers and overturned their tables. 16 To those who sold doves he said, "Get these out of here! How dare you turn my Father's house into a market!" 17 His disciples remembered that it is written: "Zeal for your house will consume me."[Psalm 69:9*] 18 Then the Jews demanded of him, "What miraculous sign can you show us to prove your authority to do all this?" 19 Jesus answered them, "Destroy this temple, and I will raise it again in three days." 20 The Jews replied, "It has taken forty-six years to build this temple, and you are going to raise it in three days?" 21 But the temple he had spoken of was his body. 22 After he was raised from the dead, his disciples recalled what he had said. Then they believed the Scripture and the words that Jesus had spoken. [*for zeal for your house consumes me,
and the insults of those who insult you fall on me.*]

Mark 14:55 The chief priests and the whole Sanhedrin were looking for evidence against Jesus so that they could put him to death, but they did not find any. 56 Many testified falsely against him, but their statements did not agree. 57 Then some stood up and gave this false testimony against him: 58 "We heard him say, 'I will destroy this man-made temple and in three days will build another, not made by man.' " 59 Yet even then their testimony did not agree. 60 Then the high priest stood up before them and asked Jesus, "Are you not going to answer? What is this testimony that these men are bringing against you?" 61 But Jesus remained silent and gave no answer. Again the high priest asked him, "Are you the Christ,[Messiah] the Son of the Blessed One?" 62 "I am," said Jesus. "And you will see the Son of Man sitting at the right hand of the Mighty One and coming on the clouds of heaven."

Matthew 17:9
As they were coming down the mountain, Jesus instructed them, "Don't tell anyone what you have seen, until the Son of Man has been raised from the dead."

Matthew 17:23
They will kill him, and on the third day he will be raised to life." And the disciples were filled with grief.

Matthew 20:19
and will turn him over to the Gentiles to be mocked and flogged and crucified. On the third day he will be raised to life!"

Matthew 27:64
So give the order for the tomb to be made secure until the third day. Otherwise, his disciples may come and steal the body and tell the people that he has been raised from the dead. This last deception will be worse than the first."

John 21:14
This was now the third time Jesus appeared to his disciples after he was raised from the dead.

Acts 2:24
But God raised him from the dead, freeing him from the agony of death, because it was impossible for death to keep its hold on him.

Acts 3:15
You killed the author of life, but God raised him from the dead. We are witnesses of this.

Acts 4:10
then know this, you and all the people of Israel: It is by the name of Jesus Christ of Nazareth, whom you crucified but whom God raised from the dead, that this man stands before you healed.

Acts 5:30
The God of our fathers raised Jesus from the dead—whom you had killed by hanging him on a tree.

Acts 10:40
but God raised him from the dead on the third day and caused him to be seen.

Acts 13:30
But God raised him from the dead,

Acts 13:34
The fact that God raised him from the dead, never to decay, is stated in these words: " 'I will give you the holy and sure blessings promised to David.'

Acts 13:37
But the one whom God raised from the dead did not see decay.

Acts 26:8
Why should any of you consider it incredible that God raises the dead?

Romans 4:24
but also for us, to whom God will credit righteousness—for us who believe in him who raised Jesus our Lord from the dead.

Romans 6:4
We were therefore buried with him through baptism into death in order that, just as Christ was raised from the dead through the glory of the Father, we too may live a new life.

Romans 6:9
For we know that since Christ was raised from the dead, he cannot die again; death no longer has mastery over him.

Romans 7:4
So, my brothers, you also died to the law through the body of Christ, that you might belong to another, to him who was raised from the dead, in order that we might bear fruit to God.

Romans 8:11
And if the Spirit of him who raised Jesus from the dead is living in you, he who raised Christ from the dead will also give life to your mortal bodies through his Spirit, who lives in you.

Romans 10:9
That if you confess with your mouth, "Jesus is Lord," and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved.

1 Corinthians 6:14
By his power God raised the Lord from the dead, and he will raise us also.

1 Corinthians 15:12
But if it is preached that Christ has been raised from the dead, how can some of you say that there is no resurrection of the dead?

1 Corinthians 15:15
More than that, we are then found to be false witnesses about God, for we have testified about God that he raised Christ from the dead. But he did not raise him if in fact the dead are not raised.

1 Corinthians 15:20
But Christ has indeed been raised from the dead, the firstfruits of those who have fallen asleep.

2 Corinthians 1:9
Indeed, in our hearts we felt the sentence of death. But this happened that we might not rely on ourselves but on God, who raises the dead.

2 Corinthians 4:14
because we know that the one who raised the Lord Jesus from the dead will also raise us with Jesus and present us with you in his presence.

Galatians 1:1
Paul, an apostle—sent not from men nor by man, but by Jesus Christ and God the Father, who raised him from the dead—

Ephesians 1:20
which he exerted in Christ when he raised him from the dead and seated him at his right hand in the heavenly realms,

Colossians 2:12
having been buried with him in baptism and raised with him through your faith in the power of God, who raised him from the dead.

1 Thessalonians 1:10
and to wait for his Son from heaven, whom he raised from the dead—Jesus, who rescues us from the coming wrath.

2 Timothy 2:8
Remember Jesus Christ, raised from the dead, descended from David. This is my gospel,

Hebrews 11:19
Abraham reasoned that God could raise the dead, and figuratively speaking, he did receive Isaac back from death.

1 Peter 1:21
Through him you believe in God, who raised him from the dead and glorified him, and so your faith and hope are in God.

His Father gave him the authority to resurrect and "give life" to believers -

Daniel 7: 13 "In my vision at night I looked, and there before me was one like a son of man, coming with the clouds of heaven. He approached the Ancient of Days and was led into his presence. 14 He was given authority, glory and sovereign power; all peoples, nations and men of every language worshiped him. His dominion is an everlasting dominion that will not pass away, and his kingdom is one that will never be destroyed.

John 5:21
For just as the Father raises the dead and gives them life, even so the Son gives life to whom he is pleased to give it.

Hope this helps....:2cents:
:peace:

Hi Truthpaste

I will answer you if you answer my question:

Did Jesus put himself to death?

Greetings dear brothers and sisters, may you all continue in the love and grace our Lord and Savior Jesus, and our great God Jehovah:

Dear Acts5v29 you said,

It's a good example of trust isn't it - that the first spirit creature to have his spirit return to Jehovah trusted Him to give him his life back. And He did! Helps us build a bit more confidence, doesn't it.

Jesus certainly had faith and confidence in his Father to resurrect him, and it does certainly build our faith and confidence as well.


Dear sister Willa you said,

His Father gave him the authority to resurrect and "give life" to believers -

John 5:21
For just as the Father raises the dead and gives them life, even so the Son gives life to whom he is pleased to give it.

And so just as our Lord and King Christ Jesus had faith in his Father, we can have the same kind of faith in Jesus our Lord and Savior as did his faithful followers of old.

Regarding this, notice Acts 7:59,

59 They stoned Stephen. He called out: “Lord Jesus, receive my spirit!” (New Simplified Bible)


59 And as they were stoning Stephen, he prayed this, ‘Lord Jesus; Receive my breath.’ (2001 Translation)

In this case it is clear that Stephen exibited faith in Jesus to resurrect him Just as Jesus had faith in his Father to resurrect the Son.

I have always found this scripture interesting as it truly shows our faith must be in Jesus, for as he himself said "If you have faith in me you have passed over from death to life", and so Stephen rightly directed his request to Jesus and not to Jehovah.

I have not had much time to post for many months, but miss all of you, and hope and pray all are well in health and spiritually always.

Christ's' love and peace to all, brother Fred

Ah yes!
John 10v17-18 Jesus says, "The reason my Father loves me is that I lay down my life—only to take it up again. No one takes it from me, but I lay it down of my own accord. I have authority to lay it down and authority to take it up again. This command I received from my Father."

...Jesus had authority to give up his flesh and blood. The only reason his flesh died is because he allowed it. His body lay in the tomb for parts of 3 days, but was his spirit dead?

spirit = energy, which cannot be destroyed or created.

His flesh was raised up for 40 days, and he was Holy.
The Holy spirit was in that body.
Jesus-the-son, with his Fathers authority, could have raised his own dead flesh, or, it can be said that the Father raised it.
No where do we read that the Son, the Spirit, ceased to exist during the entombment.
It was only his flesh that needed to be sacrificed.:heartbeat:

Thanks to 'e-magine' I didn't have to move my lips!

All I would say is that when Jesus was ready, He said, "Father into your hands I commit my Spirit", as we have already heard, as He was without sin He would never have died nomatter what they did to Him. His spirit went up to the Father and then entered His body the third day as He raised it as flesh and bone - "Jesus answered and said unto them, Destroy this temple, and in three days I will raise it up" - John 2v19.

I now look forward to your comments Interpretum :thumbup:

Hi Truthpaste

"I have authority to lay it down and authority to take it up again..."

Jesus "lay it down", but he didn't have to personally do the killing. So Jesus could "take it up again", but he didn't personally have to do the resurrecting.

It was Pontius Pilate who actually did the killing (along with the Roman guards who crucified him), and it could have been the Father who did the raising up.

Or, as you and e-imagine has said, his spirit could have still been alive.

Willa,

I like your style! :D

Way to go, girl! :hug:

So these statements above beg the questions:

By his (Jesus') "spirit", what do you mean???

Is it simply the spark of life with which YHVH embues all living things???

Or, by "spirit" are you suggesting sentience; that the "spirit" was actually Jesus and his body was nothing more than a vehicle that was discarded???

If as stated, "his spirit could have still been alive", did Jesus really die???

Would not this make His sacrifice a sham?



The scriptures repeatedly refer to his death and the shedding of his blood as the basis for an offering before YHVH that would satisfy His righteous standards.

Hebrews 9:15-22 for example, makes this abundantly clear.



Also, consider the word "death"; it is the opposite of "life".

Following the pattern of sacrifices of bulls and goats, the Master laid down His life to clear away the sins of mankind.


I don't recall in any scripture a thought of the bulls and goats, 'spirits still being alive'.


They died, ceased to exist, for a temporary remission of sins.

Jesus died, ceased to exist, for a everlasting remission of sins!!!



By the grace of YHVH, Jesus was given authority to take His precious life up once again, never again to die, always to be our King and Redeemer.


"two lepta", for your consideration.

Love to All,
John

Hi 1 of Mini

Thank you for presenting clarity of truth.

Adam gave his life over to death; by sinning.

Our Master, by not sinning and giving his life over to death; redeemed the human family.

Romans 5:14...

"Nevertheless, death ruled from the time of Adam to Moses, even over those who did not sin in the same way Adam did when he disobeyed. He is a type of the one who would come.
But God's free gift is not like Adam's offense. For if many people died as the result of one man's offense, how much more have God's grace and the free gift given through the kindness of one man, Jesus Christ, been showered on many people!
Nor can the free gift be compared to what came through the man who sinned. For the sentence that followed one man's offense brought condemnation, but the free gift brought justification, even after many offenses.
For if, through one man, death ruled because of that man's offense, how much more will those who receive such overflowing grace and the gift of righteousness rule in life because of one man, Jesus Christ!
Consequently, just as one offense resulted in condemnation for everyone, so one act of righteousness results in justification and life for everyone.
For just as through one man's disobedience many people were made sinners, so also through one man's obedience many people will be made righteous."


Christian love and appreciation,

gogh

...Not so fast Bros.
There are other circumstances to consider in this case. Adam had no pre existence as a sentient spirit being.
The "Logos" entered Mary's womb by Holy spirit. That produced a perfect human equal to Adam. All that was required was a perfect human sacrifice, not the spirit Logos. "Logos", did not have to die, nor could he die, the Logos is immortal.

Howdy EM

Re: "...the Logos is immortal."

1Corinthians 15:45 ...

"This, indeed, is what is written: "The first man, Adam, became a living being." The last Adam became a life-giving spirit."

Our Lord Jesus became a life-giving spirit and was given immortality only after being resurrected by YHVH....(imo).

Hebrews 7:14,,,

"For it is obvious that our Lord was a descendant of Judah, and Moses said nothing about priests coming from that tribe.
This point is even more obvious in that another priest who is like Melchizedek has appeared
who was appointed to be a priest, not on the basis of a regulation concerning his ancestry, but rather on the basis of the power of an indestructible life.
For it is declared about him, "You are a priest forever according to the order of Melchizedek."
Indeed, the cancellation of the former regulation has occurred because it was weak and ineffective
(for the law made nothing perfect), and a better hope is introduced, by which we approach God.
Now none of this happened without an oath. Others became priests without any oath,
but Jesus became a priest with an oath when God said to him, "The Lord has taken an oath and will not change his mind. You are a priest forever."
In this way, Jesus has become the guarantor of a better covenant.
There have been many priests, since they have been prevented by death from continuing in office.
But because Jesus lives forever, he has a permanent priesthood.
Therefore, because he always lives to intercede for them, he is able to save completely those who come to God through him.
We need such a high priest-one who is holy, innocent, pure, set apart from sinners, exalted above the heavens.
He has no need to offer sacrifices every day like those high priests, first for his own sins and then for those of the people, since he did this once for all when he sacrificed himself.
For the law appoints as high priests men who are weak, but the word of the oath, which came after the law, appoints a Son who has been made perfect forever."

Christian love

gogh

Maybe this is going down a different path than I first assumed...? :huh:

I was introduced to the thought that "Jesus didn't have to die" on another forum a few years ago by a brother whom I (love dearly, but) totally disagree with...

I copied this from somewhere on the net and adopted it as "the short 'n' sweet answer"... :yes:

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Q: "Why did Jesus have to die? As a Christian I should know the answer to this but I can’t think of any convincing explanation. No exemplar of any other religion that I can think of ended up getting killed because of his beliefs. Why wouldn't it have been possible for Jesus to spread his message and gain adherents like Mohamed, Moses and Buddha? Does Christianity only make sense by God deciding that Jesus had to be crucified?"

A:This incredibly important question involves a matter central to Christianity, yet effectively answering it is often difficult for Christians. We will take a careful look at the question and lay out the answers offered in Scripture. However, before we answer the question, "Why did Jesus have to die?", it's also important to understand that Jesus clearly understood his mission on earth involved laying down his life as a sacrifice. In other words, Jesus knew it was His Father's will for him to die.
The Messiah's Death was Part of the Plan
Genesis 3:15
And I will cause hostility between you and the woman, and between your offspring and her offspring. He will strike your head, and you will strike his heel.”

He proves his foreknowledge and understanding of his death in these passages from Scripture:
Mark 8:31
Then Jesus began to tell them that he, the Son of Man, would suffer many terrible things and be rejected by the leaders, the leading priests, and the teachers of religious law. He would be killed, and three days later he would rise again. (See also Mark 9:31)
Mark 10:32-34
Taking the twelve disciples aside, Jesus once more began to describe everything that was about to happen to him in Jerusalem. "When we get to Jerusalem," he told them, "the Son of Man will be betrayed to the leading priests and the teachers of religious law. They will sentence him to die and hand him over to the Romans. They will mock him, spit on him, beat him with their whips, and kill him, but after three days he will rise again."
Mark 10: 38
But Jesus answered, "You don't know what you are asking! Are you able to drink from the bitter cup of sorrow I am about to drink? Are you able to be baptized with the baptism of suffering I must be baptized with?"
Mark 10:43-45
"Whoever wants to be a leader among you must be your servant, and whoever wants to be first must be the slave of all. For even I, the Son of Man, came here not to be served but to serve others, and to give my life as a ransom for many."
Mark 14:22-25
As they were eating, Jesus took a loaf of bread and asked God's blessing on it. Then he broke it in pieces and gave it to the disciples, saying, "Take it, for this is my body." And he took a cup of wine and gave thanks to God for it. He gave it to them, and they all drank from it. And he said to them, "This is my blood, poured out for many, sealing the covenant between God and his people. I solemnly declare that I will not drink wine again until that day when I drink it new in the Kingdom of God."
John 10:17-18
"Therefore My Father loves Me, because I lay down My life that I may take it again. No one takes it from Me, but I lay it down of Myself. I have power to lay it down, and I have power to take it again. This command I have received from My Father." (NKJV)

This last verse also explains why it is pointless to blame the Jews or the Romans—or anyone else, for that matter, for "killing" Jesus. Jesus, having the power to "lay it down" or "take it again," freely gave up his life. It truly doesn't matter then, who "killed" Jesus. The ones who nailed the nails only helped carry out the destiny he came to fulfill by laying down his life on the cross.

God is Holy
Though God is all merciful, all powerful and all forgiving, God is also holy, righteous and just.
Isaiah 5:16
But the LORD Almighty is exalted by his justice. The holiness of God is displayed by his righteousness.

Sin and Holiness are Incompatible
Sin entered the world through one man's disobedience - Adam, and now all of us are born into this "sin nature."
Romans 5:12
When Adam sinned, sin entered the entire human race. Adam's sin brought death, so death spread to everyone, for everyone sinned.
Romans 3:23
For all have sinned; all fall short of God's glorious standard.

Sin Separates Us from God
Isaiah 35:8
And a highway will be there; it will be called the Way of Holiness. The unclean will not journey on it; it will be for those who walk in that Way; wicked fools will not go about on it.
Isaiah 59:2
But your iniquities have separated you from your God; your sins have hidden his face from you, so that he will not hear.

Sin's Punishment is Eternal Death
God's holiness and justice demand that sin and rebellion be punished. The only penalty or payment for sin is eternal death.
Romans 6:23
For the wages of sin is death, but the free gift of God is eternal life through Christ Jesus our Lord. (NASB)
Romans 5:21
So just as sin ruled over all people and brought them to death, now God's wonderful kindness rules instead, giving us right standing with God and resulting in eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.

Atoning Sacrifice
Our death is not sufficient to atone for sin because atonement requires a perfect, spotless sacrifice, offered in just the right way. Jesus, the one perfect man, came to offer the pure, complete and everlasting sacrifice to remove, atone, and make eternal payment for our sin.
Hebrews 7:28
For the law appoints as high priests men who are weak; but the oath, which came after the law, appointed the Son, who has been made perfect forever.
1 Peter 1:18-19
For you know that God paid a ransom to save you from the empty life you inherited from your ancestors. And the ransom he paid was not mere gold or silver. He paid for you with the precious lifeblood of Christ, the sinless, spotless Lamb of God.
Hebrews 2:14-17
Since the children have flesh and blood, he too shared in their humanity so that by his death he might destroy him who holds the power of death—that is, the devil, and free those who all their lives were held in slavery by their fear of death. For surely it is not angels he helps, but Abraham's descendants. For this reason he had to be made like his brothers in every way, in order that he might become a merciful and faithful high priest in service to God, and that he might make atonement for the sins of the people.

Only Through Jesus Christ
Only through Jesus Christ can our sins be forgiven, thus restoring our relationship with God and removing the separation caused by sin.
2 Corinthians 5:21
God made him who had no sin to be sin for us, so that in him we might become the righteousness of God. (NIV)
1 Corinthians 1:30
It is because of him that you are in Christ Jesus, who has become for us wisdom from God—that is, our righteousness, holiness and redemption. (NIV)

The Messiah - Savior
The suffering and the glory of the coming Messiah was foretold in Isaiah chapters 52 and 53. God's people in the Old Testament looked forward to the Messiah that would save them from their sin. Though he did not come in the form they expected, still their faith looking forward to his salvation saved them. Our faith, looking backward to his act of salvation, saves us. When we accept Jesus' payment for our sin, his perfect sacrifice washes away our sin and restores our right standing with God. God's mercy and grace provided a way for our salvation.
Romans 5:10
For since we were restored to friendship with God by the death of his Son while we were still his enemies, we will certainly be delivered from eternal punishment by his life.

In Summary, when we are "in Christ Jesus" we are covered by his blood through his sacrificial death, our sins are paid for, and we no longer have to die an eternal death. We receive eternal life only through Jesus Christ. And that is why Jesus had to, and did, die.
Matthew 27:50
And when Jesus had cried out again in a loud voice, he gave up his spirit.
Mark 15:33-39
At noon, darkness fell across the whole land until three o’clock. Then at three o’clock Jesus called out with a loud voice, “Eloi, Eloi, lema sabachthani?” which means “My God, my God, why have you abandoned me?” Some of the bystanders misunderstood and thought he was calling for the prophet Elijah. One of them ran and filled a sponge with sour wine, holding it up to him on a reed stick so he could drink. “Wait!” he said. “Let’s see whether Elijah comes to take him down!” Then Jesus uttered another loud cry and breathed his last. And the curtain in the sanctuary of the Temple was torn in two, from top to bottom. When the Roman officer who stood facing him saw how he had died, he exclaimed, “This man truly was the Son of God!”
[all references NLT unless otherwise noted]
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So, whadya all think, doesn't it make sense? :peace:
:siskiss: