Paradise Cafe Discussions - A Place For Bible Research And Christian Encouragement

Food for thought -

Is it possible to come to a knowledge of the Truth without understanding biblical Greek or Hebrew?

Moreover ...

Is it possible to come to a knowledge of the Truth if you are illiterate and unable to read any language?

Romans 8

26 And, in like manner also, the Spirit doth help our weaknesses; for, what we may pray for, as it behoveth [us], we have not known, but the Spirit himself doth make intercession for us with groanings unutterable, 27 and He who is searching the hearts hath known what [is] the mind of the Spirit, because according to God he doth intercede for saints.

Youngs

The reading and writing are useful for memory and fact storing, but many cultures used word of mouth, and the mnemonics in the psalms suggest this.

This is like asking 'can you come to know God without access to a computer'.
Of course you can, and of course you knew I would reply.

vicky

Does a bear (fill in the verb of your choice) in the woods? :D

How can birds fly without a knowledge of aeronautical engineering?

God designed them, as we were made to know he loves us.

If we accept that illiterate people and those with no knowledge of Hebrew and Greek can come to an accurate knowledge of truth, surely they could never be as spiritually mature as academic Christians? :read:

You naughty little leprechaun!! :) ;)

Is it academics that make one a mature christian?

Pro 8:1 Listen! Wisdom is calling out. Reason is making herself heard. :2 On the hilltops near the road and at the crossroads she stands. :3 At the entrance to the city, beside the gates, she calls: :4 "I appeal to all of you; I call to everyone on earth. :5 Are you immature? Learn to be mature. Are you foolish? Learn to have sense. :6 Listen to my excellent words; all I tell you is right.

If that was the case, and the truth could be attained by knowlege of a language or even of a book, would not the scholars posess all the wisdom of God. And yet, we see the one way to attain truth, and for those who love him, he leads to that fountain, for how could our Lord be confined my a human limitation of literacy.

1Co 2:1 When I came to you, my friends, to preach God's secret truth, I did not use big words and great learning.
1Co 2:2 For while I was with you, I made up my mind to forget everything except Jesus Christ and especially his death on the cross.
1Co 2:3 So when I came to you, I was weak and trembled all over with fear,
1Co 2:4 and my teaching and message were not delivered with skillful words of human wisdom, but with convincing proof of the power of God's Spirit.
1Co 2:5 Your faith, then, does not rest on human wisdom but on God's power.
1Co 2:6 Yet I do proclaim a message of wisdom to those who are spiritually mature. But it is not the wisdom that belongs to this world or to the powers that rule this world---powers that are losing their power.
1Co 2:7 The wisdom I proclaim is God's secret wisdom, which is hidden from human beings, but which he had already chosen for our glory even before the world was made. :8 None of the rulers of this world knew this wisdom. If they had known it, they would not have crucified the Lord of glory.
1Co 2:9 However, as the scripture says, "What no one ever saw or heard, what no one ever thought could happen, is the very thing God prepared for those who love him." :10 But it was to us that God made known his secret by means of his Spirit. The Spirit searches everything, even the hidden depths of God's purposes.
1Co 2:11 It is only our own spirit within us that knows all about us; in the same way, only God's Spirit knows all about God. :12 We have not received this world's spirit; instead, we have received the Spirit sent by God, so that we may know all that God has given us. :13 So then, we do not speak in words taught by human wisdom, but in words taught by the Spirit, as we explain spiritual truths to those who have the Spirit.

:heartbeat:
Lynn

Hi Derek,

But what about John 17:3, where eternal life comes from talking in knowledge of God and His Son? What if you were bad at algebra or science or even your own native language, how would you cope with learning spiritual things? You'd never get higher than a D in anything, and I'm sure we are expected to get a better grade than that in the final test, I mean judgement!

Regards,
Brendan.

John 17:3

(ASV) And this is life eternal, that they should know thee the only true God, and him whom thou didst send, even Jesus Christ.

(ISV) And this is eternal life: to know you, the only true God, and the one whom you sent-Jesus Christ.

...

Hi Peeps!
The
"truth"
came to me when I was about 6 years old. I was a poor reader then.
Since that time, i have read and learned many things, none of which has added one tittle to what I already knew by Holy Spirit. In fact, acidemia has only muddled my mind, and has lead me on paths away from truth. After 61 years of learning, I now, with concerted effort, strive to seperate what I have learned, from what I knew without learning at age 6. Holy Spirit speaks to us without words, if we can close our eyes, and our ears, and turn off our mind's thoughts, and just be quiet, and still for a while. :heartbeat:

"Come to a knowledge of the truth" - ewww I hate that sentence. You don't want "a knowledge" you want a deep, intimate, one-one-one, close, beautiful relationship with the one who is the truth.

I don't have "a knowledge" of my husband. Lots of people do but they don't have any sort of depth of relationship with him.


Encountering God and getting to know him is free to everyone, young, old, educated or not.

Hi Guys,

Now we all realise that the words ‘doctrine’ and ‘doctor’ are related, and the word ‘doctor’ used to refer to a person well-qualified in any branch of learning, so learning your scriptures is essential to learning about God. I reckon if a person can’t quote liberally from the minor prophets, for example, their goose is cooked come Judgement Day!

Regards,
Brendan.

Hay Brendan!! :friends:
Though your tongue is firmly poking out your left cheek, I hear you loud and clear! ;)

Malkah, ....Nice analogy!

You and I are joined at the hip on this, Lynn. :clap:Hearts express love and confidence in God, and knowledge - if used beneficially - helps guide understanding, but the heart is the important thing. Before there were scriptures or even a Hebrew nation, there was love of God.

The phrases on "accurate knowledge" and "taking in of knowledge" were absolutely essential parts of the scriptures, primarily because the setting of the Christian congregation was the Jewish system from which it sprang, and which was trying to squash the truth about Jesus Christ. That knowledge would help Christ's congregation to flourish, rather than fall into neglect, and release people from the onerous weight of the Law - show Christ's principles that were based on love.

But there are too many fine hearts out there who are very poor thinkers, whose prayers are sincere and genuine and an absolute delight to hear! - I don't think they will be "for the chop" on judgment day. Besides, wouldn't we all swap a little of our knowledge of prophecy (if we have any) for a little more sincerity in our worship, because we want to show our love - rather than our "wisdom" - to God?

I'm with you Lynn!:thumbsup:

Acts5v29

P.S.
All the same Brendan, knowledge can prove to be uplifting at times, can't it.

I don't think I was more than 3 or 4 years old when I would walk into my Catholic Church, take a look around, and clearly recognize that the place had nothing to do with the God who created me...

I also recognized the beauty, complexity and love evident in creation, and completely understood that everything bad in the world...from noisy smoke-emanating jets passing overhead to the Q8 bus around the corner belching black smoke to the greed and corruption that causes all pollution, that somehow God's creation was being held hostage by forces completely alien to the creator....

A few years later the Watchtower came along and, after the initial "enlightenment" that was really what I already knew, that's when the confusion began....

So I can definitely relate to what all of you are saying.....

:heartbeat:
Jesh