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Full Version: The Mystical Body of God
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There is always a certain amount of tension over the nature of God between Trinitarians and JWs, past and present. It should be funny really, that we think we can expound well on the nature of God. Then we have the added difficulties of describing the essential qualities of Christ and the spirit.

I often think one of the problems in engaging fully in this topic is the fear of mysticism, because of its connection to Eastern thought. I’m convinced that the WS, at least on the surface, had no tolerance for esoteric thought at all. What was hidden was heathen to them, perhaps. Or maybe their secret was to pretend to hate hidden things, while working on their real agendas behind the scenes. I can only guess.

But there are sacred secrets in the scriptures, and there are mystical concepts. Not everything is unknowable, I guess. John 17:3 says that everlasting life comes from knowing God and Christ, so we must be able to get our heads around these divine creatures in at least one way. I think that way is where their personalities are concerned, and not their essences. Lots have been written about the divine nature of God, and how His Son, although begotten, is divine as well.
Holy spirit is not so easy to define in character or essence. The WS have made it simple – the spirit of God is His inanimate force. They see no personality, no character there, only power. When some Bible versions say ‘he will teach you all things’, he means it to them.

Western Christian thought allows for the concept of mysticism in the body of Christ. It is a sacred secret, like the union of a man and a woman but more significant. It produces oneness in the body, whether male or female, Jew or Greek etc. But do we see it as a mystical union, where many become subsumed into one? How close is this concept to the Eastern alternative of all humans containing an element of the divine, and they become subsumed over time into the cosmic divinity? Is this a bridge too far? Should we stop at the union of the body of Christ, and not extend it through to the union of all in all?

If the idea of unity can be looked at this way and considered scripturally valid, is it tough to transfer this understanding to the relationship of the Father and the Son. Whether they are the begetter or the begotten, they are united as one. ‘I and the Father are one’. Or are we to understand this unity as unity of purpose, and extend that logic back to the body of Christ?

And we still haven’t discovered the essential nature of the holy spirit. One brother referred to it as ‘Jehovah by remote’, meaning that both God’s power and personality were extended across the divide to further His plans and help and teach His people. It would not be difficult to concede unity of thought and essence to God and holy spirit in this case. Then add the unity between Christ and His Father. Lastly, add the unity of the body of Christ. All are one – very mystical!
Hi brandan, We are so on the same page. I am a Panentheism believer, That the Universe is God but God is more then the Universe. This also coincides with the Unified Theory that believes that all things are made with the same energy (G0D). This reminds me also of the JW belief that a persons (nephish) spirit returns to Jah when he dies.
I think that's true because we are all made of, and part of, God.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Panentheism
thoughts?
:funnyface:

Hi Brend...

Yes, God's body and spirit are mystical, (mysterious). The EAstern religions don't teach that God has a central body, but rather that he's omnipresent.. (in everywhere and everything). I do think God has a central body, however because he has a mind. Where there is a mind there has to be a body, right? That kind of body is too hard to understand. Since God is a spirit and he has a spirit, the spirit and the body must be connected as one, like an arm and a body, Jehovah refers to his spirit, as his breath. In many places in Ps. and Is. God refers to his arm, as acccomplishing his purpose for him. His arm could either be Michael/Jesus or the holy spirit. Which do you think it is? Michael/Jesus accomplishes everthing while being filled w/ the spirit of God. so in a sense, they would be an extension of him, yet still an individual personage of their own being, right?

Here's a thought. Spirit in it's very nature seems to need a person, angelic or flesh to make it animated. So, perhaps that's why God used Jesus for the creation work and didn't just do it himself. Also that is why he has angels assigned to do his work and people as well. I think I'm right on this. What do you say? Again when we die, our spirit goes out and can not do anything until it inhabits a body. Same difference.

You were talking about the Eastern thought of all of us having God's spirit in us. God did breathe the breath of life into us. Was that his spirit? What do you think? The thing is this: Holy spirit is something one prays for and works to obain. Not something we have already. The breath of life may be a different thing then the Holy spirit. Then there is another spirit that came @ Pentecost that Jesus said would be his spirit combined with God's. Do you see a oneness as though all had the same spirit? Guess, this is not here yet. This is something that will evidently be here on the New Earth. Maybe it's like 'the tent of God being w/ mankind.' In John 17, Jesus said: May we all be one as himself and the father are one.. :grouphug:
I believe the Holy Spirit is what is says...a spirit. This Spirit, is the Spirit of Truth, which is Wisdom ( a real Holy entity) that helps you and inhabits us when we are examined by the Father and through his mercy he finds us worthy to send the Holy Spirit to us, to comfort and teach us secrets he wants us to know.

This is a tremendous privilege--to be God’s children and to have His holy spirit influencing in us, and teaching us. No man can know Him or Jesus Christ unless he is taught of God, and this is the main reason Jesus died for us is so that it would be possible for the Holy Spirit to come into us to teach us, his sacrifice allowing it possible for such a Holy Spirit, (the attendant of the Father's Holy Throne) to occupy imperfect flesh. But you must really desire the Holy Spirit sincerely. Because even though Jesus did die for us, Wisdom still cannot enter us, unless we repent from all sins, and cleanse ourselves from within and without, for nothing stained can attain the Holy Spirit inside them.

Attaining Wisdom (Holy Spirit) the sacred source of blessing from the Father , should be the main purpose in our lives. Wisdom is mobile beyond all motion , and She (is feminine) penetrates and pervades all things by reason of her purity. For She is an aura of the might of God and a pure effusion of the Glory of the Almighty, therefore nothing stained enters through her gate. She is the splendor of eternal light, the spotless mirror of the power of the Father, and the image of his goodness. Wisdom is the one who the Father sends into holy souls from age to age. She produces friends of God and Prophets. For there is nothing God loves, be it not one who dwells with Wisdom. For She is fairer than the sun, and surpasses every constellation of the stars. She adds to nobility the splendor and companionship with the Father, even the Lord of all loved her, for she is the instructress in the understanding of God, the selector of his works.

Solomon asked God in prayer , ""God of my fathers, Lord of mercy, Give me Wisdom, the attendant at your throne, and reject me not from among your children. For I am your servant, the son of your handmaid, a man weak and short-lived and lacking in comprehesion of judgment and laws. Indeed, though one be perfect among sons of men, if Wisdom , who comes from you , be not with him, he shall be held in no esteem. You have chosen me king over your people and magistrate for your sons and daughters. You have bid me build a temple on your holy mountain, and an alter in the city of your dwelling place, a copy of the Holy tabernacle which you have established from of old. Now with you is: Wisdom, who knows your works, and was present when you made the world, who understands what is pleasing in your eyes, and what is comformable with your commands. Send her forth from your holy heavens and from your glorious throne dispatch her, that she may be with me and work with me, that I may know what is your pleasure. For she knows and undertsands all things, and will guide me discreetly in my affairs and safeguard me by her glory, for what man knows counsel, or who can conceive what you intend , or who ever knew your counsel, unless you had given Wisdom, and sent your Holy Spirit from on high? And thus the paths of those on earth made straight, and men learned what was your pleasure and were saved by Wisdom."

I am a living witness that Wisdom is real, She is with the Father and Son, and can also live now within us and teach us what is pleasing to the Father, and know what living within his kingdom now truly means. She reveals the hidden secrets. Jehovah has sent her to me and she is the most beautiful and loving expression of the Father's Glory.

More than anything else seek Wisdom.

Love,
New Heart
Hi New Heart1
Very nicely writen. I espically like, "I believe the Holy Spirit is what is says...a spirit. "
The Holy Spirit is first and foremost, a spirit, that is Holy.

Dictionary.com Unabridged (v 1.1) - Cite This Source - Share This
spir·it /ˈspɪrɪt/ Pronunciation Key - Show Spelled Pronunciation[spir-it] Pronunciation Key - Show IPA Pronunciation
–noun 1. the principle of conscious life; the vital principle in humans, animating the body or mediating between body and soul.
2. the incorporeal part of humans: present in spirit though absent in body.
3. the soul regarded as separating from the body at death.
4. conscious, incorporeal being, as opposed to matter: the world of spirit.
5. a supernatural, incorporeal being, esp. one inhabiting a place, object, etc., or having a particular character: evil spirits.

It each of these primary definitions, "spirit" is associated with a conscious being, though seperate from flesh. :happyheart:
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