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Jesus then said: “Pay back Caesar’s things to Caesar, but God’s things to God.”
Would you pay income taxes even when you discover there is no law stipulating you have to pay ?

The income tax money goes to pay for defense and the expansion of corporate America.

Russo Film Exposes Criminal Banking Syndicate That Rules America
In 1913 America was a free country. Then a band of powerful bankers achieved their fathers' and great grandfathers' goal. America has never been the same. Soon the world will not be the same.
Aaron Russo expertly exposes the traitorous Federal Reserve Act and the fact that there is no law that stipulates American citizens have to pay income taxes. The ratification of the 16th amendment, also known as the "Tax amendment", represents a fundamental undermining of Constitutional law in America. It is the greatest hoax ever perpetrated against the American people by the elite private banking institutions that have usurped government as an arm of their overall control mechanism.
Russo presents interviews with an impressive range of government officials, IRS special agents , FBI officers, Politicians and tax attorneys who have researched and subsequently campaigned against the Federal Reserve Act and thus reveals why the IRS is an illegal foundation.
The income tax does not meet either criteria of Constitutionally legal taxation in America, that is direct apportioned tax or indirect uniform tax. The IRS claims that the 16th Amendment allowed for a third form of taxation, however, the Supreme court ruling on the amendment states that it allows for no new forms of taxation. More supreme court cases in the same period confirm the same conclusion. The 16th Amendment did not allow the Federal Government to levy a new tax, thus there is no Constitutional basis for the income tax.
The findings of the Grace Commission, a Blue-Ribbon panel appointed by President Ronald Reagan found that:
"One hundred percent of what is collected is absorbed solely by interest on the federal debt. All individual income tax revenues are gone before one nickel is spent on the services taxpayers expect from government."
Education, health and community up keep is paid for out of state and local property taxes, gas taxes, liquor taxes, you name it. Proceeds from the income tax do not pay for these things.The income tax money goes to pay for defense and the expansion of corporate America. In essence everyday American people are funding expansionist wars and the playboy lifestyle of the financial institutions that then further profit from that activity and become ever more powerful.
The income tax is the tool of totalitarianism. It is the means by which the corporate controlled government manipulates the people on a mass scale and locks them into servitude. If the people do not know what their rights are then an agency that knowingly breaks the law is not going to tell them.
The banks now control America. They print the currency and tell the people what it's worth. They have the legal right to counterfeit money. This coup d'etat of benign open and accountable government by elitist private interest represents the tipping point from freedom and the long slide towards fascism. Since the government's primary goal stopped being the welfare of the people it has ceased to exist as a legal entity.
This is exactly what Thomas Jefferson warned the American people may happen. Jefferson said:
"If the American people ever allow the banks to control the issuance of their currency...the banks and corporations that will grow up around them will deprive the people of all property, until their children wake up homeless on the continent their fathers conquered."
Russo, the award winning filmmaker who produced "The Rose" and "Trading Places", confronts the IRS in Washington and is quickly reprimanded by Homeland Security. He discovers that those who have stood up to the income tax slave system and simply asked the question "where is the law?" have been slandered and personally attacked because to reduce the issue to a rational debate would immediately expose the truth behind the entire scam.

Russo discovers that this has not come about by accident it is a planned and coordinated agenda. The younger generations have no concept that they have been drawn into a trap from which they cannot escape. The middle class is being systematically and purposefully wiped out, leaving behind a population on the brink of serfdom. The purchasing power of the dollar has been destroyed BY DESIGN, leaving behind a cost of living only affordable to those who profit from the system.
New laws passed through Congress seek to further enslave people by making it harder to declare bankruptcy while at the same time allowing the banks to charge huge amounts of interest. thus both parties, working with the banks, legally enslave the nation.
The people of America are being fed upon by the elite and devoured alive and they barely even recognize it. It is the perfect crime, the pinnacle of criminal capitalism
It is with this in mind that Russo delves deep into the big brother control agenda and places it succinctly within the context it needs to be understood in. What is being sold to the American people today as patriotism is fascism, and it is part of the same overall agenda to rape the people financially, spiritually and mentally. This is the only place to go to get more out of America. If you can literally control the movements people make and the actions they take then you own their world.
You need to see this film now. In one hour and forty nine minutes Aaron Russo spells out what is at stake and what happened when the American people stopped questioning and started trusting their government.

http://infowars.net/articles/january2007...7Brown.htm
http://infowars.net/articles/October2006...6Russo.htm

Full movie AMERICA: FREEDOM TO FASCISM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zsZO6G7dfpI

Howdy Mark

Romans 12:17…

“…..Provide fine things in the sight of all men. If possible, as far as it depends upon YOU, be peaceable with all men.”

Christian love,

gogh

Being the Son of God, Jesus himself was exempt from paying taxes really. However, he pointed out that he would still pay the governmental taxes so as not to stumble anyone, even though he wasn't required to pay:

(Matthew 17:24-27) 24 After they arrived in Ca·per´na·um the men collecting the two drachmas [tax] approached Peter and said: “Does YOUR teacher not pay the two drachmas [tax]?” 25 He said: “Yes.” However, when he entered the house Jesus got ahead of him by saying: “What do you think, Simon? From whom do the kings of the earth receive duties or head tax? From their sons or from the strangers?” 26 When he said: “From the strangers,” Jesus said to him: “Really, then, the sons are tax-free. 27 But that we do not cause them to stumble, you go to the sea, cast a fishhook, and take the first fish coming up and, when you open its mouth, you will find a stater coin. Take that and give it to them for me and you. . .

Therefore, I take this example to mean that, even though we may not have certain requirements towards taxes since we are citizens of God's Kingdom, it is still important that we do not stumble others, and thus it's better to pay the tax as Jesus did.

If some “gangsters” came to your door and asked for “Protection” money, would you pay it?

Hello Mark, the people here could never understand what you are asking, for I have known about this since 1992 and I have NEVER had any brother begin to understand this. Remember, Jesus told Peter to pay the ‘tax’ as not to ‘stumble’ him, he never said because we had to, why didn’t they pay it before they had to track them down and call them on it? And when Jesus did the thing with the coin, he said “Pay Caesars things to Caesar”, people think because the coin has “Caesars’-mug” on it, that it belongs to Caesar, as if because of that, we have to give it back to Caesar. But it was a trick, so Jesus wouldn’t have to just say, yes, pay the tax, or not. Remember they walked away “amazed”, there is nothing amazing about, ‘just pay the tax’. The Government only has their name on the money to certify it, not because it belongs to them. It belongs to the one who earned it, in trade for their God given energy used in work to get it.

The Brothers never understand the “constitution” for The united States of America. The word ‘Constitution’ is the same as ‘Contract’, and a contract is the same thing as a ‘Covenant’. Jehovah had a “Constitution” with his people, and his people did not obeying it. Today, we have a “Covenant” with our servants in office, and they are not obeying it! They have a “contract” with us, to obey the Law, and our servants do not obey the Law, they turn it around on the people, and Tax us for our ignorance, and in fact, we don’t appreciate our Freedom and will put the chains on our own feet and march to the box cars willingly! “My people are destroyed for lack of knowledge” Hosea 4:6, (KJV)

Don't forget that there is good and bad that comes with taxes..

I know it dependes on your location.

But    roads, safety "fire, ambulance, plows"
schools, community play grounds, parks, state parks, animal control, community events,

These are just some things that are a benifit .

The problem I personally see is the corruption that bleeds people of their hard earned money to line others pockets. among other things.
Like I said good and bad.

Just as I thought, you haven’t a clue…

Merriam-Webster:
Main Entry: con·sti·tu·tion
Pronunciation: "kän(t)-st&-'tü-sh&n, -'tyü-
Function: noun
1 : an established law or custom : ORDINANCE
2 a : the physical makeup of the individual especially with respect to the health, strength, and appearance of the body <a hearty constitution> b : the structure, composition, physical makeup, or nature of something <the constitution of society>
3 : the act of establishing, making, or setting up
4 : the mode in which a state or society is organized; especially : the manner in which sovereign power is distributed
5 a : the basic principles and laws of a nation, state, or social group that determine the powers and duties of the government and guarantee certain rights to the people in it b : a written instrument embodying the rules of a political or social organization

I believe that Jesus was implying that paying the tribute or tax is an honorable thing to do. What someone or something does with what they receive is on them; but Christ's followers should be honorable.

If your boss knew that you wasted a large portion of your paycheck, would she be obligated to withhold a portion of it? Pay the tribute. Once paid, you are off the hook.

:shocked:

gus

p.s. Ron, please try to be more respectful of the friends posting here.

"It belongs to the one who earned it, in trade for their God given energy used in work to get it."

Yes...and the government does a lot more for you than create weapons of war. It has expended energy and earned at least part of the tax money in question. That is the part you pay.

Sorry Gus Ol' Buddy, but it would appear that you don’t have a  “Clue” either… I am not “trying” to be disrespectful friend, just very (in your face) honest!
You said…
“Yes...and the government does a lot more for you than create weapons of war. It has expended energy and earned at least part of the tax money in question. That is the part you pay.”

Do you know what the ‘Government’ is? The Government is The Constitution. (Not Bush or Hillary, the're only people elected to office)
Do you know what a ‘Dollar’ is? A Dollar is a Unit of measurement, a certain measurement of ‘silver coin’ is a Dollar under the LAW! The constitution defines what is supposed to be money, (And that green stuff you think is money, is not money, under the Law) and the only way that this Law can be changed, is by amendment!  Not by writing other laws. Our elected servants have rebelled against the supreme law of the land, and took it upon them selves to break the law, and give their delegated responsibility over to a ‘World Bank’. Yes the same folks who bring us the United Nations. (And these World Bankers charge us for the use of our own money, and that my friend is a sin.) The Founding Fathers designed our country to be FREE, they said… “The power to tax is the power to destroy”. We never had an ‘Income Tax’ until 1913, which means when my Grandfather got his pay check, he got the whole sum without any deductions withheld. How do you suppose they got along without an Income Tax all those years Gus? I am not going to tell you, that will be your assignment to find out, if you even care?   I know, no one here has a clue what I am talking about. But John F. Kennedy sure did, he tried to take away this Un Constitutional power from the Federal Reserve, and give it back to the Treasury Dept by Executive Orders, and look were it landed him?   Under an eternal flame, which is the symbol of Lucifer himself, the light bearer

Maybe so, Ron. I have been called worse than "clueless" before.

Nobody said all government was good government, or fair government. I suppose Jesus was fairly clueless too when he recommended paying the tribute to everyone's hero, Caesar. Or maybe, the kind of government didn't matter. Maybe it's just the right thing to do.

We can nitpick at this all day; but the fact is there are real people who work for the government who expend energy in service to you and they should probably be paid.

Believe me....I have examined Libertarian ideals and was a member of the Constitution Party. I know that there was no federal income tax before 1913; and I know that it's impossible to justify one now, based on the Constitution of the United States. Nevertheless, we have what we have. You can certainly stop paying your federal income tax if you'd like. Do it! Run it up the flagpole to the US Supreme Court! I wish someone would! And while your cooling your heels in Leavenworth Federal Penitentiary (Brant, Matt and Lynn would be happy to visit you there, I'm sure), maybe you can meditate on Jesus' words a little more...and just maybe you'll come to realize what I did a few years back: taxes matter about as much as death...they don't.

Another clueless post from:
gus

Are you saying Gus, you wouldn’t come visit me too? I’d like it if you did, and I am glad to find out you know about what I am ‘talking about’! Then you know it is a can of worms to try to explain this to someone with the usual JW training. I wish everyone would reexamine the account of Jesus with the Pharisees.

Then the Pharisees went their way and took counsel together in order to trap him in his speech. 16 So they dispatched to him their disciples, together with party followers of Herod, saying: “Teacher, we know you are truthful and teach the way of God in truth, and you do not care for anybody, for you do not look upon men’s outward appearance. 17 Tell us, therefore, What do you think? Is it lawful to pay head tax to Caesar or not?” 18 But Jesus, knowing their wickedness, said: “Why do YOU put me to the test, hypocrites? 19 Show me the head tax coin.” They brought him a de•nar´i•us. 20 And he said to them: “Whose image and inscription is this?” 21 They said: “Caesar’s.” Then he said to them: “Pay back, therefore, Caesar’s things to Caesar, but God’s things to God.” 22 Well, when they heard [that], they marveled, and leaving him they went off.

The Pharisees “marveled”, some translations say they were “amazed”. What was so “marvelous” about this demonstration? We know the people there did not like the Roman occupation. We also know the Pharisees were trying to trip up Jesus in front of these ones. Jesus, and educated people know that the Roman inscription doesn’t indicate ownership, only governmental certification that it is not counterfeit. When he said…
“Pay back, therefore, Caesar’s things to Caesar, but God’s things to God.” The people understood the coin did not belong to Caesar, but they owe everything to God. And Jesus very wisely got out of the trap; they were trying to get him to say ‘NO we don’t owe the Roman’s anything for their occupation.’

Interesting - I will take a look at these links as I have never heard this particular take on the income tax conspiracy theory.

I am actually a civil servant and will attest to the fact that a lot of money and resources are wasted. The government does indeed spend money on things that I personally disapprove of. Nevertheless, I will still pay my income tax because I have to. That goes for the state taxes too.

There are, however, a lot of necessary things that the government does and stil does well. I remember reading that the largest source of revenue for the US government prior to 1913 was customs tarrifs. Perhaps there is a sufficiently large source of revenue aside from income taxes, which are actually pretty regressive, since earned income is taxed at a much higher practical rate.

I would prefer a consumption tax - I think that would be a lot fairer and if you didn't want to pay it you could alter your consumption. Are you opposed to all tax or just this one?

Blessings

Son Of Korah

I would visit you too, Ron. It would just take me longer. Brant, Matt & Lynn live just down the road from Leavenworth, KS. I've been there before. The countryside is beautiful! Just think...if you stopped paying taxes, you could have a pretty decent view.

I have developed a "logic" behind paying taxes to something as large as the US government which does some things poorly, some things well, and wastes more than it should (as SOK points out). I'm a civil servant too, work hard, accomplish much, and appreciate the taxpayer as my boss. I can choose how I believe my own taxes are being spent; and I choose to compensate the government for the good stuff it does...and I'm content with that.

gus

Son of Korah had it right when he said…
“I remember reading that the largest source of revenue for the US government prior to 1913 was customs tariffs”.
That is right! When ever someone would bring in “cheaply made foreign products” they would have to pay the difference in a tariff, which protected American business at the same time paid for government services. Now with what they call “free trade”, (Free trade is only ‘free’ to the foreign owned business, not us!) the American people are paying for government.
Remember the so called “Separation of Church and State”? Before the Government grew so big by trying to be everything for every body, the “Church” took care of “poor people”, and thus it was really God doing it. Now with the so called “welfare state”, government is trying to replace God in taking care of the poor people, but really only growing bigger by taking money by force from one group, and then giving it to another. (not before taking their cut first though) Every one thinks that “Government Has All the Money”. No. The Government doses not have any money! The only money they have is the money they get after they Tax the American people. The Government is not a Business. They do not produce anything to earn profit. (We still have the same percentage of poor people now, even after their “Great Society”)
As Christians living in a free land where the power to tax was taken away by force from the King of England, and laid in our own hands, we have a responsibility to know how Government works, where the money comes from, and how governments services get paid. Of course if we rely on others (as in worldly people) to do our dirty work for us, we should expect to get the Government we deserve.
Do you think it is only for our convenience they withdraw withholdings from our paychecks? No, for if they did not, and we all had to sit down and write a check at the end of the year for what they want in taxes, there would be another ‘Boston Tea Party”! (Oh, sorry, I have to take that back, I almost for got who I was talking to)

Hey! What ever happened to Mark who started this anyway???

Hi OLRono

Here I am !

As far as I am concerned NO Tax Law = NO pay Tax.

We are taxed to the hilt in every conceivable way here in the UK and if there was no law demanding income tax then I would not pay it.