Paradise Cafe Discussions - A Place For Bible Research And Christian Encouragement

There are parts here and there I just read it and thought you might enjoy it. Really nothing to do with the topic in general.

BB:happyheart::heartbeat::happyheart:

Hi Vickey, Just a few comments and a question or two.

I Believe the first resurrection is found in 1 Thess 4 and occurs when The Lord returns to raise the " Just " or those who are " In Christ ".

The Comfort of Christ’s Coming

13 But I do not want you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning those who have fallen asleep, lest you sorrow as others who have no hope. 14 For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so God will bring with Him those who sleep in Jesus.
15 For this we say to you by the word of the Lord, that we who are alive and remain until the coming of the Lord will by no means precede those who are asleep. 16 For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of an archangel, and with the trumpet of God. And the dead in Christ will rise first. 17 Then we who are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And thus we shall always be with the Lord. RES #1.

I never knew that I love to know more on that!!!

As for proving ourselves I think the Bible and Jesus prove our Righteous standing before a Holy God.

Is 64:6 But we are all like an unclean thing,And all our righteousnesses are like filthy rags. ( the Hebrew meaning was menstrual rags )

Rom 3: “ There is none righteous, no, not one; 11 There is none who understands;There is none who seeks after God. 12 They have all turned aside;They have together become unprofitable;There is none who does good, no, not one

All one needs to do is read the first 7 Chapters of Romans to get the clear picture of Condemnation and to haer those beautiful words that open up Chapter 8 1 There is therefore now ( YE HAH!!!)
no condemnation to those who are in Christ Jesus

We are all under the Double condemnation of Death:(

When Adam and Eve sinned against God that day in the Garden they didn't Phyically die, though the curse of death came upon them and all men. But they died Spiritually the instant Adam ate of the friut.

Separated from God

What does it mean to prove ones self to the ultimate?

Much like our Justice system here the " Unjust " await sentencing
at the Great White Throne when the sentence of Eternity away from the presence of a HOLY God is given out. Why for Eternity?
The " unjust " are Eternally Unrepentant.

I think thses say then opposite.

Mt 23:14
Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! For you devour widows’ houses, and for a pretense make long prayers. Therefore you will receive greater condemnation.

PLEASE answer me this??? If the sentence were Annihilation how an the punishement be GREATER for one group than another?

Mk 12:40 ( Lk 20:47 )
who devour widows’ houses, and for a pretense make long prayers. These will receive greater condemnation.”

2 Corinth 3:9
For if the ministry of condemnation had glory, the ministry of righteousness exceeds much more in glory.

( What a statement " The ministry " of condemation in comparison to " The ministry " of Righteousness )

LAST John 5:29 and come forth—those who have done good, to the resurrection of life, and those who have done evil, to the resurrection of condemnation.

Wages are something we earn (not inherit ) each Sin we commit
recorded by God

Rev 20:12 And I saw the dead, small and great, standing before God,and books were opened. And another book was opened, which is the Book of Life. And the dead were judged according to their works, by the things which were written in the books. 15 And anyone not found written in the Book of Life was cast into the lake of fire.

So the " Just " which is by Grace through Faith alone are written in the Book of Life ( They have Names just like Lazarus and unlike the Richman )

You might want to read Romans 6 a little slower isn't verse 7 in the past tense.

7 For he who has died has been freed from sin.

Lets see what verse 1 says. Died to What?

1 What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin that grace may abound? 2 Certainly not! How shall we who died to sin live any longer in it? 3 Or do you not know that as many of us as were baptized into Christ Jesus were baptized into His death?

Baptism is a picture of the Believer identifying themselves with Christ and His death. He made the payment and took the punishment for the Believers Sins. When the Believer is under the water it is a picture of being buried then raise as was Christ to New "Life" the one who was one dead to God because of their sins ( Spiritually ) is now ALIVE Spiritually born again into God's family. Now as a child of God " There is therefore NOW no condemnation for Sin.

The odds are high usually 10 out of 10 people will die in their lifetime

Cool I haven't been called a twerp since grade school!!!

Even the Douay Bible has footnotes saying it is a parable.

( What is being taught in the parable ? )

(
Free from the Law of Sin and Death " In Christ Jesus "

" In Him "

Wayne

BB:happyheart::heartbeat::happyheart:

Hello BethelBoy,

Perhaps you are correct, but it seems that according to the Lord, this correction would occur in his due time, not in the then-present time of his earthly walk.

"12"I have much more to say to you, more than you can now bear. 13But when he, the Spirit of truth, comes, he will guide you into all truth. He will not speak on his own; he will speak only what he hears, and he will tell you what is yet to come."" - John 16:12, 13

Jesus came to fulfill the Law and the Prophets and to show himself as The Way, The Truth...not to dispel or disprove every false doctrine that had gained sway in the previous 1500 years of Judaism.


Agape

SlaveForJah

The disciples could understand things because they had seen the fallacy of some of the superstitions of their culture but they were far from seeing all of their superstitions for what they are. Jesus did not force the truth on anyone, it was everyones their free choice to reject it or to accept it. Jesus knew it was a bad thing to force anything on people and the apostles were not ready to receive everything Jesus had to say. But for everyone who has the ears to hear it is better for them to listen. The bible can be misinterpreted as well as anything else on the earth, the only way is the holy spirit.

Consider these scrips.

John 12:1,2
Matt 26:6......

Why mention that this was the house of Simon the leper and then make a point that Lazarus was reclining with them?
Simon the leper, could not recline with anyone, until cured. If not cured he would die of this ailment.

This may be off the wall, but supposing the man with sores, which the dogs lick, who cannot come into the city gates or go to his home is Lazarus/Simon the leper.

Once cured he may take a meal and recline in his own home: Something the law covenant prevented.

He had to remain outside the city gates if a leper. Lev.13:46

Jesus cures him, brings him back from the dead, then they recline and take a meal together, an evening meal before the death of Christ.

This is a multi-layered parable.

It includes Abraham and his faithful and discreet slave Eleazar.
It also includes Jesus and Lazarus his friend, the resurrected leper, with whom Jesus, the sweet smelling Jesus, takes the evening meal.

Prior to this Lazarus, whose flesh was already rotting on his body would have stank (John 11:39); how much more so, 4 days into death and before his resurrection?

This represents us. We have leprosy of the spiritual kind in that we are in a decaying body we do not want. The sweet odour of Jesus and his death will envelope us when we take the evening meal with Him.

Simon means 'the one who hears'. Lazarus means God has helped.
Simon-Lazarus is one who hears but God has helped.
Simon-Peter is on who hears and God turns into a little rock.

Names mean everything in this era. God will help us all, so we will all be Lazarus, helped by God and basking in the wonderful odour of Christ's sacrifice




Sorry must go to work....more to come

Perhaps we can suppose Lazarus is really Jimmy Hoffa and the Father's house the Teamsters Union:D

Here a few Basic principles of Bible interpetation.

The Principles of Biblical Interpretation

There are certain principles that will help us to accurately handle the Word of Truth. These principles are embedded in the scripture itself. We do not need to go beyond the boundaries of the Bible to discover these laws and maxims that are used to determine the meaning of scripture. The Bible interprets itself (scripture interprets scripture).



Principle #1: The Literal Interpretation Principle

We take the Bible at face value. We generally take everyday things in life as literal or at face value. This is a common sense approach. Even symbols and allegories in the Bible are based on the literal meaning of the scripture; thus the literal meaning is foundational to any symbolic or allegorical meaning.



The golden rule of interpretation is: “When the plain sense of the scripture makes common sense, seek no other sense.” Therefore, take every word at its primary, usual, meaning, unless the facts of the immediate context, studied in the light of related passages and fundamental truths, clearly indicate otherwise.



Principle #2: The Contextual Principle

D.A. Carson has been quoted as saying, "A text without a context is a pretext for a proof text." By "proof text," of course, Carson means the abuse of a single verse or phrase taken out of context to "prove" a particular view. The word "text" is derived from the Latin word, which means to “weave.” The context is that which accompanies the text. The Word of God is a perfect unit. The scriptures cannot be broken; they all hang together, a perfect unity. We must look and consider the verses immediately before, after, and around the passage. We must consider the book of the Bible and the section of the Bible in which the passage occurs. The Bible must be interpreted within the framework of the Bible.


Principle #3: The Scripture Interprets Scripture Principle

We may rest assured that God did not reveal an important doctrine in a single, ambiguous passage. All essential doctrines are fully and clearly explained - either in the immediate context, or somewhere else in the Bible. This principle is best illustrated by what is known as "topical Bible study." There are two essential 'rules' for applying this principle: 1) The context of the two passages must be the same; and 2) The plain passage must be used to guide our interpretation of a less clear passage - not the other way around!



Principle #4: The Progressive Revelation Principle

The Word of God is to be understood from the Old Testament to the New Testament as a flower unfolding its petals to the morning sun. God initiated revelation, but He did not reveal His truths all at one time. It was a long and progressive process. Therefore, we must take into account the then-current state of revelation to properly understand a particular passage. For example, an ]interpretation of a passage in Genesis which assumed a fully delineated view of the "new Covenant" would not be sound. As the saying goes, “The Old Testament is the New Testament concealed, and the New Testament is the Old Testament revealed.”


Principle #5: The Accommodation Principle

The Bible is to be interpreted in view of the fact that it is an accommodation of Divine truths to human minds: God the infinite communicating with man the finite. The Bible was written in three languages: Hebrew, Aramaic, and Greek. The Bible was also created in space, in time, and in history so that man could understand it. The truths of God made contact with the human mind at a common point, the Bible, to make God (and, indeed, all of reality) knowable. We must be careful, then, not to push accommodating language about God and His nature to literal extremes. God does not have feathers and wings (e.g., Psalms 17:8); nor is He our literal Father in the same sense our earthly father is.



Principle #6: The One Interpretation Principle

Every verse in the Bible has only one interpretation, although that verse may have many applications. The one correct interpretation is that which mirrors the intent of the inspired author.


Principle #7: The Harmony of Scripture Principle

No part of the Bible may be interpreted so as to contradict another part of the Bible. The Christian presupposes the inerrancy and harmony of Scripture as a necessary result of a perfect Creator God revealing Himself perfectly to Mankind. Proper application of hermeneutical principles will resolve apparent conflicts. The key here, of course, is the word "proper," for exegetical fallacies can easily result from a zealous but ill-informed attempt to "save" Scripture from an apparent contradiction.



Principle #8: The Genre Principle

Genre is a literary term having to do with the category or "genus" of literature under consideration. Proper interpretation must take the general literary category of any given passage into consideration. Are we dealing with poetry or prose? Are we dealing with history or prophecy? It is important that when we interpret the Word of God, we understand as much as possible the author's intent. For example, if the author is writing history - the genre of the Pentateuch of Moses - it would not be proper to interpret a single reference (such as the speech of Balaam's ass) as a poetic personification, unless a variety of contextual markers compelled us to do so.



Here are some books of the Bible and their respective genres:



Psalms - Poetry
Proverbs - Wise Sayings
Isaiah - History and Prophecy
The Gospels - Biography and History
The Epistles - Teaching and Doctrine
Revelation - Eschatology and Prophecy

Principle #9: The Grammatical Principle

The Bible was originally written in three languages: Hebrew, Aramaic, and Greek. While we have several highly accurate translations of the Bible in English, all translation involves a certain amount of interpretation on the part of the translator. Thus, the study of word meanings, grammar, and syntax of the original languages is important for a proper understanding of Scripture. This doesn't mean that every student of the Bible must learn Hebrew or Greek. There are a number of tools available - lexicons, Bible dictionaries, detailed exegetical commentaries - that can provide a deeper understanding of crucial passages.



Principle #10: The Historical Background Principle

The Bible was composed in a specific culture at a particular point in time. While they are universal in application, the truths in the Bible can most fully be realized only when taking the surrounding culture and history into account. For example, when Jesus is called "the first fruits" (1 Corinthians 15:20), we may have some understanding of this title from the Old Testament, but a study of Jewish religious practice in the first century can provide a deeper understanding of why Paul chose this title in this passage, as opposed to another title with the same general meaning of "first."


Here is a great online free course on hermeneutics.


http://www.growingchristians.org/cfgc/he...utics.html


" In Christ "


BB:happyheart::heartbeat::happyheart:

didnt jesus say anything about how we should derive the truth from the word of God?

The parable of the “Rich Man and Lazarus” is often used to support the doctrine of eternal torment. However, parables are not literal statements of doctrine, and cannot be used as such. They are comparisons, illustrations of spiritual truths. To understand the parables, we must first understand the context in which they were spoken. In this particular case, it was a series of encounters with the hypocritical Pharisees. Jesus probably adapted a common folk story to teach a striking and pointed lesson: there will soon be a reversal of spiritual fortunes (see Interpreter's Bible, p. 290; Peake's Commentary, p. 837). The Pharisees will fall from God’s favor, and the outcasts of Jewish society who accept Jesus Christ, pictured by Lazarus, will receive great spiritual blessings.

The parable taught a lesson that applied then and is the only parable where a person is named. The significance of this, often missed by commentators, becomes apparent a short time later when Jesus raises his friend Lazarus from the dead. True to the parable’s lesson, the Pharisees still did not believe (John 12:9,10), just as they did not believe when the Lord himself was resurrected. This parable teaches the folly of pursuing worldly prominence, and predicts an imminent change of spiritual fortunes. It does not teach the God-dishonoring doctrine of eternal torment.