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All Jesus followers are body of Christ. True Jesus followers should not ostrasize any servants just because he or she does not fit in to their groups likings. Why is this trend is rampant in most christian community? It seems that pride is the main reason of this wicked operation. No one is perfect and they all have things to improve. Why are they so prideful to admit their shortcomings and strive to change and grow? Without changing, there is no growth, that's for sure. It is so ridiculous to a simple minded person like me.

hitomi
Rom 15:14 And I myself also am persuaded of you, my brothers, that you also are full of goodness, filled with all knowledge, able also to admonish one another.

Admonish

From the same as G3559; to put in mind, that is, (by implication) to caution or reprove gently: - admonish, warn.

I know that there have been many times I have allowed pride to stand in the way of listening to reproof and warnings from my brothers or sisters. Admonishments I needed to hear, but did not want to admit because it meant change, a cleansing or refining, that hurt to admit I needed.

Are we not thankful, that we are loved so much, not only by our father, but also within the body of Christ, that they would tell us, admonish us, to change self destructive behaviour? Or help us to see, where we had a spot on our garment?

What if we feel the council is unwarranted? That we do not have the problem that we are being admonished for? Pray. For our Father knows all things. Allow Jesus to open our Eyes and ears to his shepherds staff. If we walk with him, he will reveal the truth to us.

With love to all
Lynn
Absolutely true, both of you.

I've found, moreso in the recent past, that when we pray for someone's eyes to be opened to the truth, for instance, that we should also pray the same thing for ourselves. This works! Instead of praying that we be heard, if we pray that we also have our ears 'unstopped' so we can hear - it makes us more accomodating of another's point of view without automatically thinking it's wrong just because it sounds different.

We can't forget to apply the Bible's counsel both ways for it to truly have the desired effect. God has a way - sometimes subtle and sometimes blatant - of showing us what He wants us to change - sometimes through others and sometimes more directly. It's not only about us or them or you or me - it's about all of us who are on this same journey as Christians - together. :grouphug: He wants us together, in unity, for our benefit. And there are so many benefits within this sharing, don't you think? God knows what He's doing - even if we don't get it right away sometimes! lol.

:peace:
I think one of the stupidest barriers to unity within the Body has got to be this foolish requirement to accept the doctrine of the Trinity.

Considered to be an "essential doctrine" of the Christian faith, by the mainstream community. But yet there is NOWHERE in the Bible where is says, "you must believe in the Trinity in order to be saved!"

I have met so many individuals who I could consider Christian, on both sides of the table. It is time this idea is scrapped!!
:angry:

John Wrote:
I think one of the stupidest barriers to unity within the Body has got to be this foolish requirement to accept the doctrine of the Trinity.

Considered to be an "essential doctrine" of the Christian faith, by the mainstream community. But yet there is NOWHERE in the Bible where is says, "you must believe in the Trinity in order to be saved!"

I have met so many individuals who I could consider Christian, on both sides of the table. It is time this idea is scrapped!!
:angry:


John

Believe in the Son and you are saved, believe in the Father and you are saved, and believe in the Holy Spirit and you are saved.

You got to believe in ALL three to be saved my good man!

And another thing, i do believe that to be in the body of Christ that you have to eat his flesh and drink his blood which occurs at communion.

That is how we are in Jesus body and he is in us. See John 6:53-58.

Hi guys,

I guess I should have realised that the trinity doctrine was essential to mainstream Christianity. I was raised a Catholic but it seems so long ago now. Of course, it’s not just a case of some people believing in the Father, Son and spirit and others not believing in them; it’s how we understand them. My old Irish understanding was to see it in terms of a shamrock, three people separated like the sections on the shamrock leaf, and yet together become one leaf. Then the WS told us the Father was God, Jesus was the son of God, and holy spirit is an inanimate force emanating from the Father and available to those whom He wishes to give it.

It is a shame that the understanding of God separates Christians, because the idea that anyone might really grasp the essence of the beings in the heavens and their relationships to each other is unlikely. I think the body of the Christ is a lot smaller than many people might think, and within that smaller number, it is very fragmented. Is it remotely possible that there might be Christian unity on this side of Armageddon? I doubt it; there is just too much enjoyment in the idea of us and them, ‘us’ being the ones who think they are right, and ‘them’ the spiritually ignorant fools.

Regards,
Brendan.

John Wrote:
I think one of the stupidest barriers to unity within the Body has got to be this foolish requirement to accept the doctrine of the Trinity.

Considered to be an "essential doctrine" of the Christian faith, by the mainstream community. But yet there is NOWHERE in the Bible where is says, "you must believe in the Trinity in order to be saved!"

I have met so many individuals who I could consider Christian, on both sides of the table. It is time this idea is scrapped!!
:angry:


I do sooo agree with you John. I was in another forum that became just unbearable because of their insistance that I couldn't be a 'real Christian' without believing in the trinity. " I AM" was a big argument for it, and also the spurious baptism verse - in the name of the Father, the son and the holy spirit - triad proof! It was their job to teach me how important it was to read it into the text whenever the Son of God was mentioned - what Jesus really meant was... I'd had enough of that from the WT telling us what was really meant. I can pretty much tell you all the arguments - it really is involved and it's not about a 'three-headed god' like the WT taught.

However... there were a few on that board that pm'd me to say it didn't matter to them if I believed in the trinity, that what I wrote was of Christ. That was a very small minority tho' - the majority tolerated and treated atheists and Christian-hating Jews better than nontrinitarians. That was hard to swallow! I have been over the 'evidence' a million times and I still don't believe it - but I don't think those who do, lose their salvation for it. How can you hate someone for the little thoughts in their little brains? And really - how would it change the way you act or how you feel about God? Actions speak louder than words - I'd rather love 'em all and let God sort it out in His own time. I stopped trying to prove my point to them - it was a huge thing - it felt like I was trying to justify myself over and over - it really taps into your pride of wanting to be right and I had to let it go. You know, none of us can justify ourselves and prove that we're Christians with only words... Some people feel God answered their prayers in the positive about it... I won't argue with them on that either... it's between them and God.

If I can love you even if(lol) you're a trinitarian - you can love me too, even if I'm not one. Sounds fair to me! What is it that love covers again?... oh yeah, right - :love:

:peace:

Peace to you, Yanni(s) - of course I believe in all three - just don't see the evidence that they are 1) equal, or 2)all to be worshipped the same - no where does the Bible say to worship the holy spirit as something separate from God... just my thoughts, bro. :friends:

Hey Brendan! :wave: I think I'd rather be "one of them - the ignorant fools". It seems that comes up in the Bible over and over, pride is not a righteous quality to our God - but being lowly, humble, and having a broken spirit, totally dependant upon Him, is favorable.

I wish we really could have unity today of the sort you mentioned, but from my experiences so far I have to agree that it doesn't really seem likely. Then again - God's into miracles big time. :D

:friends:Love u!

:peace:
I did not mean to talk about the trinity even though it is part of it.

The reality is that there are many kinds of ostrasism going on in the Christian community. I see it in this forum, too.

h
God Told Me to Write This Column
by Mary Grabar
http://townhall.com/Columnists/MaryGraba...ments=true

"Every morning God wakes me up and whispers in my ear, “Goest thou, Mary, through Cyber Land and write for the people. Spread the truth about the evils of atheism, false churches with racist preachers, the egotists who place faith in man’s own ability, and the dangers of a ruler who would be socialist emperor rather than one who leads with a ‘servant’s heart.’” (God speaks to me in the KJV because I am an English major.)

I jump out of bed, sometimes even jotting down these inspired thoughts on the paper on the bed stand, and happily put on some coffee for the day’s work ahead: what God tells me to do. There have been times in my life when I have not listened to God. As a result, I brought on suffering and unhappiness for myself and others. That was when I was younger and thought I knew better than God. When I catch myself going that way again I ask God for direction. Yeah, He and I are on a first-name basis. Now that I’ve admitted that, I know I should never run for Vice President of the United States, or indeed any kind of office (even if my status as a naturalized citizen should not preclude some).

I know that if word got out about my faith, I would invite concern about my mental abilities. I have never addressed a congregation, but I have been known to speak about my beliefs about what God wills for me and the gifts he’s given me. At this point in my life, I pretty much know that my gifts are limited, that I cannot be “anything I want to be” as the educationists and progressives would have me believe. I know that I have not been given the gift of singing (my son as a newborn laughed at my lullabies) or mechanical gifts (like replacing a tiny halogen light bulb). But I do think He has given me the gift of writing and I try to use that gift and persuade others to follow His plan.

Some people are given gifts of leadership. Some political leaders go to a particular church for political expediency. After they decide they want a career in politics, they sit year after year listening to words of hate about the white race, the United States, and Republicans. Others go to church because they want to take in the word of God. As they sit there listening to the Word of God and learning about right and wrong, they may decide to take that insight and apply it to the way they lead. The church they are in may be a church they’ve belonged to since childhood.

I can understand how they could take what they hear in church and apply it to public policy. For example, I think God tells me too that this nation, founded on Judeo-Christian principles, should not be beholden to Middle Eastern dictatorships for its energy supply. God tells me too that we should protect the innocent, whether they’re in the womb or simply going to work in a New York office tower. I too have found inspiration in church and must confess that when others might think I am taking notes on the sermon, I am really writing down ideas for columns or for my creative writing. I hear things in the sermon that I apply to current events or fictional characters. So while a governor might be thinking about public policy, I’m thinking about what I will write.

I don’t know if I’ll ever be famous enough for CNN to visit my church to find out about me, though. I don’t think they’ll have a “special, exclusive investigative report” about such “shocking beliefs,” like the inerrancy of the Bible and the notion of sin. Most of my colleagues in academia have already ostracized me for holding such views, views that do not require skepticism and a careful measuring back and forth, with sufficient footnote citations from atheistic colleagues.

I don’t think I’ll have to worry about CNN’s Christiane Amanpour thrusting a microphone in my face and asking, “Do you, Mary, REALLY believe that the Bible is the truth, the revealed word of God? I mean, do you REALLY believe that God tells you what to do?” I don’t think I’ll have to worry about a cut to a shot of her facial expression, of benevolent concern as one would expect for a foaming inmate of the Recovery House for Schizophrenics and Religious Fanatics. Nor would I have to worry about her raised eyebrows at my answer, “Well, yes, John Milton, for guidance, called upon the ‘Spirit, that dost prefer / Before all temples the upright heart and pure.’ So why not I?” Nor would I have Anderson Cooper’s furrowed brows, as he says, “Wow, Christiane. Amazing story. That woman has a Ph.D. and teaches college students, yet actually believes in the Holy Spirit.” Unlike other Christians under scrutiny, I would not have to suffer Amanpour, putting on her look that says, “There are some that we progressives just cannot help,” responding, “That’s right, Anderson.” Nor would Erica Hill make her own cute eyebrows jump perkily to show her sophistication.

I don’t think anyone will tape my conversations expressing my beliefs. I don’t think they’ll post them on YouTube. I don’t think I’ll ever get the same scrutiny and opprobrium, as Sarah Palin did in this week’s CNN special for telling her congregation, “’Pray for our military men and women who are striving to do what is right,” “for this country, that our leaders, our national leaders, are sending [U.S. soldiers] out on a task that is from God” and that “there is a plan and that that plan is God’s plan.” Nor would I have such words quoted in the Huffington Post and intended to be held up for ridicule.

The only ones concerned with my religious beliefs (or more accurately that my beliefs do not fall under the acceptable denominations of Muslim, Wiccan, Zen Buddhist, or Gaia worship) are the people who hire college faculty or publish creative writing. They don’t even need a YouTube video, just the fact that I write for this publication and not the Huffington Post, as some of my tenured colleagues and many novelists do, and that I mention God in my columns and try to put forth a moral message in my fiction. For that, I labor as an adjunct instructor at two colleges and have two novel manuscripts waiting to be published. But God tells me to soldier on, nonetheless, and to mock liberal stereotypes about Christians by presenting our conversations in the language of what they think is that of the King James Bible."

Yannis Wrote:
Believe in the Son and you are saved, believe in the Father and you are saved, and believe in the Holy Spirit and you are saved.

You got to believe in ALL three to be saved my good man!


Funny. Try as I may, I just can't seem to find that passage in my Bible.
:read: :dontknow:

Might you be so kind as to point it out?


Did find these though...

"Neither is there salvation in any other: for THERE IS NONE OTHER NAME (Singular) under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved." - Acts 4:12 NASB

"... the NAME of Jesus Christ the Nazerene..." - Acts 4:10 NASB

I think the trinity concept was constructed to help people understand the impossible. Many people see the trinity as a concept superimposed on scripture to not only try to explain the essence and the relationship of the divinities in the heavens but also to make Christianity more familiar to the pagans.

Alexander Hislop’s book, The Two Babylons, focused on the triune gods that first appeared about 3500B.C. in Sumeria. The original set up was said to centre on Nimrod, the great opposer of God. They continued in different guises throughout history and always leaned emotionally to a queen of the heavens. As a Catholic, I mixed Jesus, Mary and Joseph with the Father, Don and Holy Ghost as alternative religious trinities. Oddly enough, Hislop himself never took on board the logical conclusion of his own research to reject the trinity. Nowadays, his research is discredited by many, but other researchers like James George Frazer and Joseph Campbell have spotted the same recurring themes through history.

I’m not sure if the triune divinities were equal to each other in the past. As Jesus is son to God, Horus is son to Osiris, and Isis is a combination of spirit and mother goddess.

The complexity of it all! I read that the Jews were ridiculed for believing in one god. It was viewed as too simple to be worthy of anything but contempt. When the Messiah came, the Word came into the earth as the son of God, and holy spirit witnessed about Him.

Frank Viola’s webpage has a wonderful article about the relationship between Jesus and the holy spirit. It’s here:

http://frankviola.wordpress.com/2008/08/...he-spirit/

Regards,
Brendan.

John Wrote:

Yannis Wrote:
Believe in the Son and you are saved, believe in the Father and you are saved, and believe in the Holy Spirit and you are saved.

You got to believe in ALL three to be saved my good man!


Funny. Try as I may, I just can't seem to find that passage in my Bible.
:read: :dontknow:

Might you be so kind as to point it out?


It's called logic.

If you dont believe in God then you are an atheist.

If you dont believe in Jesus than you are not saved. Acts 4:12

And if you dont believe in the Holy Spirit then you are not led by the Spirit, therefore you not a son of God. Romans 8:14

It's really that simple dont you think?

I believe in ALL three. Dont you?

Yannis,

Why do you ignore the fact that trinitarians believe Jesus is as equal with the Father, and the Holy Spirit is equally God too? You are also ignoring that the triniarians believe if you don't believe in the trinity you are not saved. BB is here because he does not believe we are saved. Ask him if you think I am lying.

h

Quote:
Alexander Hislop’s book, The Two Babylons, focused on the triune gods that first appeared about 3500B.C. in Sumeria. The original set up was said to centre on Nimrod, the great opposer of God. They continued in different guises throughout history and always leaned emotionally to a queen of the heavens. As a Catholic, I mixed Jesus, Mary and Joseph with the Father, Don and Holy Ghost as alternative religious trinities. Oddly enough, Hislop himself never took on board the logical conclusion of his own research to reject the trinity.


Brendan, bro!

Alexander Hislop's "The Two Babylons" was a favorite of mine. I got my copy at a district assembly in 1967 and found it really useful for sorting out pagan doctrines that had slipped into the church. What amazed me was why he didn't seem to notice his own research on the pagan trinities. Blind spot, I guess.

Rez:giverose:

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