Paradise Cafe Discussions - A Place For Bible Research And Christian Encouragement

Greetings Yannis,

"And if you dont believe in the Holy Spirit then you are not led by the Spirit, therefore you not a son of God." Romans 8:14

I don´t know which Bible you use, but mine read at Romans 8:14 as follows: "...because those who are led by the Spirit of God are sons of God."

Hmmm. Don´t know whether I should take it as saying that we should believe in the Holy Spirit?

:heartbeat:

AR

Hi AR
I wasnt saying that was a direct quote from Romans as there werent any quotations surrounding my comment.

I dont see the confusion. Common sense tells us that the ungodly who dont believe in the Holy Spirit arent led by the spirit, so naturally, those who believe in the Holy Spirit are led by the Spirit.

Are you saying you dont know if you should believe in the Holy Spirit or not?

Hi Rez,

You were 20 years ahead of me! They must have had more respect for the rank and file then, to distribute the book at an assembly. I saw a reference to it in the Watchtower in the 80s and went out and bought it. When the book study conductor found out I had the book, he looked very concerned and told me that it was a book best left to the GB to read. I was told that we can rely on them to find the appropriate pieces and give them to us as they see fit. To read it on your own was too spiritually dangerous! I don’t think I realised at that time how insulting that was.

WCL, Brendan.

Insulting?!!! Good grief! Shades of the Catholic approved book list which we JWs used to laugh at.:readthis: :rofl: Now we just get "approved bits" of books. How funny is that!:funnyface: Not!:shocked:

.....sorry....super cranky tonight:D

Hi all,

A transcription of a talk given at the Northwest Bible Conference, October 2002, by Lewis Hrytzak, about the body of Christ:

http://www.paradisecafediscussions.net/s...p?tid=2809

Enjoy :)

Philia, LT

Here is a link to download The Two Babylons By Alexander Hislop in PDF format.

http://ia300035.us.archive.org/1/items/t...sluoft.pdf

Warm Christian Love
Bangalore

Hi Bangalore,

That's it - give it away free - we had to pay HARD CASH for it!!! :rant:

Brendan.

Ahhh...but we can read ours when the computer crashes....:computerpunch:

:read: :whistle:

Yeah hard copy rules, hard drive drools!

Oops, couldn't write this without computer :confused:

But you could print out the stuff you wish to read when the computer crashes.

Warm Christian Love
Bangalore

:help: :readthis:

Just my two sense....

In the OT the spirit was rendered as Jehovah's spirit.

In the new testament the spirit is considered holy spirit.

Although the same spirit, it is now shared with Jesus.

Let's say that someone is called by Jesus to be his follower. This individual has to preach and teach about our Heavenly father and faith in his ransom provision. Perhaps this individual knows very little of the written word but has faith. Would this individual lose his reward because he thought that God sent his son to him in order to preach about God's mercy and kindness and DIDN'T KNOW about holy spirit?
We know that the spirit is what directs us. Just because we have the bible to help teach us with the holy spirit. I just don't think that knowing what the spirit is, is truly necessary. If you follow the Christ, you could be listening to the spirit without 'knowing' exactly what it is.
On the other hand, we are baptized in name of the Father, and the Son, and the Holy Spirit. By the way, I received my spiritual calling before baptism. The holy spirit flowed over me, comforted me, and stayed with me for days telling me my commission BEFORE I was baptised. Personally, I sit and ponder quite frequently, meditating on whether I am under the 'right' spirit. Satan always wants to grab the center of attention. I can't wait until he's locked up. I wish (for lack of a better word) that we could talk Jehovah and Jesus into throwing away the key! (humor).

With Christian Love, Debbie

Same with me, Debbie, except that my baptism was delayed for 7 months even though I asked to be baptized the very next day after my experience with the holy spirit. The WT was just starting to get ready to put people through questions before baptism (The Lamp book was released at the district assembly--1967--where I was baptized and it contained the first lot of questions.) and, of course, people were encouraged to take this step of baptism at assemblies....never mind finding the nearest body of water and baptizing "without delay".

I think there is a period of vulnerability when one first has this teaching by holy spirit and that is why 1 John 4:1 says:

"Beloved ones, do not believe every inspired expression, but test the inspired expressions to see whether they originate with God, because many false prophets have gone forth into the world."

In the original Greek it says to "test the spirits". The NWT is putting a spin on this scripture by translating "spirits" as "inspired expressions" because there really are spirits that are trying to influence and mislead us, especially when we're new and inexperienced. If Satan did it to Jesus he certainly will do it to us.

While we are newly receptive to the holy spirit, Satan likes to get in there and masquerade as an "angel of light" and try to foist on us some error or other. These things MUST be sorted out using the scriptures along with prayer.

Another thing we need to be aware of is that Jehovah does not do all the work for us. I like the way Paul put it at Acts 17:27

" . . .for them to seek God, if they might grope for him and really find him, although, in fact, he is not far off from each one of us."

The word translated "grope for" is:

So it isn't all handed to us on a silver platter is it...;)

Love to you, Debbie, and all the body of Christ!:grouphug:

Rez

Do you know what I am really appreciating about this site? In general its a positive place to visit and learn and share.

Thank you for the PM's, too. I used to be able to respond more. I just am not in such a luxurious position, right now. Besides, this is my second forum to really become a member and participate. The last forum had many conspiracy thoeories and people who will share helpings of food from the table of demons. I did get caught 'in the spirit.' Jesus did not let me totter off the edge though (yeah!!). And before I knew it I was compelled against the group that was spiritually fornicating. My husband said my eyes glowed. (He isn't desperately and obsessively spiritually inclined like myself, but he did recognize something poignant-his comment also gave me joy and encouragement).

Then a few months later, the situation flared up again with a group coming after me. This is when I really learned about Satan being ready to goad and interfere. I learned more about my personal emotions and self interests. I learned some areas of improvement that I needed to address.

This whole thing is kind of scary. I want to do well. I've made so many mistakes. I think I'm doing better, but sometimes its like a hurricane or tornado that happens in not only reality. Its a spiritual natural disaster and my family just doesn't always understand. Some choice I make can effect what the family can't see. Can anyone relate with these feelings?

Groping is an excellent word! Why is it sometimes that I KNOW I am OK. And why is it sometimes SO HARD to take a new step? I HAVE to have action, don't I? What amount of pressure should I feel? When am I worrying too much? I have a mountain of problems over the next couple of weeks. Please help encourage Jehovah and Jesus to compel me to walk the fine Christian walk through these immediate upcoming trials. I honestly frighten myself and beat myself up.

Do you know what I find the most encouraging? The common denomintor here is to believe to Jehovah and Jesus's glory, without the suspicion or rejection. This is so great.

Just a quick thank you to you all.

With Christian Love, Debbie

Hey Sis,

I know it is very comin to have the anxious feelings, Seeking to do the right thing in this world takes lots of effort and lots of patience it seems. we are always presented with a blurry vision. I think it is to help us rely totally on our savior. at least that is the way I take it.

The way life is going for most I would say that we have another landmark in history before us.
Things are just terribly tough and for each in our own area we are effected differently.

So I tooo agree it is a nice place to come for some encouragement.
while some of us are down others have the positive thoughts for the day and vice versa..

We are never alone in this struggle..

Peace to u all
May God grant us serenity. I am sure he really knows how much we all need it.