Paradise Cafe Discussions - A Place For Bible Research And Christian Encouragement

Full Version: In the Forehead or the Hand?
You're currently viewing a stripped down version of our content. View the full version with proper formatting.
I have not been to the Cafe for a while.

Needed to respond to many emails being received about a video on youtube/google video/my blog.

It is a video I made approximately 8 months ago when I purchased my first web cam.

The video explains how the number 666 is calculated and is directed more towards a cosmoplolitan audience rather than targeting Jehovah's Witnesses.

Many emails I received said that if "God's Spirit Directed Organization" really is the wild beast then why don't Jehovah's Witnesses have a mark on their forehead or right hand.

It is a good question and therefore I made a video response which answers it.

Yes, I also plugged the book however, invited people to the Paradise Cafe so hope it reconciles any concern that my motives are mercenary.

Here is the video which explains how ALL Jehovah's Witnesses receive THE Mark on either their forehead or hand:

Jehovah's Witnesses - The Forehead or Hand? <---- Click


In Christ

ablebodiedman
HI brother,

I just wanted to note thatsome of your conclusions may be incorect.

in your video you said you are trying to warn the chosen, who have recieved the mark.

clearly they cannot recieve the mark even thru deception!?

"And I saw (G)the souls of those who had been beheaded because of their (H)testimony of Jesus and because of the word of God, and those who had not (I)worshiped the beast or his image, and had not received the (J)mark on their forehead and on their hand; and they (K)came to life and (L)reigned with Christ for a thousand years. "

Peace

Totaldismay Wrote:
HI brother,

I just wanted to note thatsome of your conclusions may be incorect.

in your video you said you are trying to warn the chosen, who have recieved the mark.

clearly they cannot recieve the mark even thru deception!?

"And I saw (G)the souls of those who had been beheaded because of their (H)testimony of Jesus and because of the word of God, and those who had not (I)worshiped the beast or his image, and had not received the (J)mark on their forehead and on their hand; and they (K)came to life and (L)reigned with Christ for a thousand years. "

Peace



Hello Totaldismay,

I agree with the scripture.

I do not think it was possible to receive "The Mark" until the babtismal vows were revised and so some have died loyal without having been put through this test.

Some of them were disfellowshipped for identifying other transgressions within the organization even prior to this and so gave evidence they were not willing to worship the wild beast.

I also think some of them have membership in or visit this forum.


regards


ablebodiedman
'

OK SO I am back,

I think your words did not come across the way your mind meant them. you are more clear in your reply to me here then your video.
OR maybe I just thought you said the annioted ones recieved the mark.


Peace.
Forgot to post the video which should first be watched before the one concerning the mark on the forehaed or right hand.


It can be found here:

Calculate the Number of the Beast - 666 <---- Click

regards


ablebodiedman
I have thought of these "marks" as indicative of physical ("right hand"), mental ("forehead"), or both allegiance to the beast.
:assimilation:
Hi John,
I have a similar thought. I used to think the marks are received through our actions (the hand) and our thoughts (the forhead, symbolising the mind).

What do you think?

:heartbeat:

AR

John Wrote:
I have thought of these "marks" as indicative of physical ("right hand"), mental ("forehead"), or both allegiance to the beast.
:assimilation:


Hello John,


The Baptism also acheives that.

It is a physical demonstration of alliegiance.

It is also a mental one.

The person has to show signs they understand what they are commiting to before they undertake the physical manifestation of their mental thoughts.

Regards

ablebodiedman

I would say it may appear to be a physical demonstration.
And as for the mental, that cannot be deduced. as heart/mind my be wholey devoted to God and they are mislead by false hoods.

Just an observation.

I personaly see obedience even in the face of a real truth as a factet of mental alegiance.

So that leaves the ? in my mind is it enough for it to appear as thou they are serving the beast? " I am not sure it applys to JW's only BTW" Like an act of obediance like Satan wanted! or if it has to be full comitment?

ablebodiedman Wrote:

John Wrote:
I have thought of these "marks" as indicative of physical ("right hand"), mental ("forehead"), or both allegiance to the beast.
:assimilation:


Hello John,


The Baptism also acheives that.

It is a physical demonstration of alliegiance.

It is also a mental one.

The person has to show signs they understand what they are commiting to before they undertake the physical manifestation of their mental thoughts.

Regards

ablebodiedman


I would say that THAT would depend upon the person's sincerity. In the Organization, I would bet that the vast majority are pretty much coerced into so-called "baptism".

"Action speaks louder than words", I think it is by the individuals' lives, not by that one-time event.

How many people do we all know of (rhetorical question) that physically leave the organization, but mentally and emotionally, the organization HAS NOT LEFT THEM? :paranoid: Many times without even they themselves realizing it.

John Wrote:
[I would say that THAT would depend upon the person's sincerity. In the Organization, I would bet that the vast majority are pretty much coerced into so-called "baptism".

"Action speaks louder than words", I think it is by the individuals' lives, not by that one-time event.

How many people do we all know of (rhetorical question) that physically leave the organization, but mentally and emotionally, the organization HAS NOT LEFT THEM? :paranoid: Many times without even they themselves realizing it.



John,

I would change your wording just a little:

"I would bet that the vast majority are pretty much misled into so-called "baptism".


"Action speaks louder than words", I think it is by the individuals' lives, not by that one-time event.

I think it is both.

Each individual Jehovah's Witness lives their lives according to the rules made by the WTBTS instead of obeying Jesus Christ.

It makes it very easy for Satan to cleverly mislead them.

Leaving the organization puts the person in a very cramped place. Many now have to live their lives being seperated from close family and friends so yes they probably think about the organization and it's effect on their own lives every day.

The decision is not an easy one without consequences.

It does however, give extraordinary evidence the individual refuses to let anyone undermine their own integrity and remain loyal to Jesus Christ.

At least however, they are no longer in a situation where they are coerced into venerating mere men, worshipping the wild beast.


regards


ablebodiedman

ablebodiedman Wrote:
At least however, they are no longer in a situation where they are coerced into venerating mere men, worshipping the wild beast.


Amen! :thumbup:

John Wrote:
I have thought of these "marks" as indicative of physical ("right hand"), mental ("forehead"), or both allegiance to the beast.
:assimilation:


Reminiscent of the scripture-carrying cases that some Jews wear?

Acts5v29

Acts5v29 Wrote:
[quote=John]
I have thought of these "marks" as indicative of physical ("right hand"), mental ("forehead"), or both allegiance to the beast.
:assimilation:


Interesting comment Acts5v29, I personally do think it will be physical, I think it will be part of a monetary system which will also indicate allegiance to 'the beast' - who in my opinion may well be alive today and waiting for that time when he will be welcomed as the 'man of peace' - of course he will be anything but, as 3 in 4 people will be wiped off the face of the earth in that dreadful 'Day of the Lord' as Joel, Revelation, Daniel & Ezekiel (and many others) indicate so clearly.

So what about the technology to bring in such a 'mark' as mentioned in Revelation 13?

This is one of thousands of reports on what is being used today.....

"Fearful about how RFID tags might be used on people, state Senator Joe Simitian, D-Palo Alto, has proposed legislation limiting the use of the human device called a VeriChip. Both houses of the California Legislature have approved a Simitian bill that would prohibit forcing people to have chips implanted. As of early this week, the bill remained on the governor's desk awaiting his signature" - please take a look at the full article which covers the present use of microchips in pets, as we know anything that will be used with humans is tested on animals first! - here is the link >> http://www.pacificsun.com/story.php?story_id=1314

Truthpaste Wrote:
Interesting comment Acts5v29, I personally do think it will be physical, I think it will be part of a monetary system which will also indicate allegiance to 'the beast' - who in my opinion may well be alive today and waiting for that time when he will be welcomed as the 'man of peace' - of course he will be anything but, as 3 in 4 people will be wiped off the face of the earth in that dreadful 'Day of the Lord' as Joel, Revelation, Daniel & Ezekiel (and many others) indicate so clearly.

So what about the technology to bring in such a 'mark' as mentioned in Revelation 13?

This is one of thousands of reports on what is being used today.....

"Fearful about how RFID tags might be used on people, state Senator Joe Simitian, D-Palo Alto, has proposed legislation limiting the use of the human device called a VeriChip. Both houses of the California Legislature have approved a Simitian bill that would prohibit forcing people to have chips implanted. As of early this week, the bill remained on the governor's desk awaiting his signature" - please take a look at the full article which covers the present use of microchips in pets, as we know anything that will be used with humans is tested on animals first! - here is the link >> http://www.pacificsun.com/story.php?story_id=1314


Hello Truthpaste,

Christian Greetings. Upon reading your post, it called to mind a discussion in which I was involved several months ago on another board. I'd like to offer some of my comments from that thread here. I will quote one of the posts from that thread, and hopefully the thoughts will be of some comfort to you.

SlaveForJah Wrote:

Gabriel Wrote:
Then what is this Mark that the scriptures speak of? I diffenately dont think that its symbolic or figerative in anyway. The scriptures has made it quite clear that "ALL WILL BE UNDER COMPULSION TO TAKE THE MARK or they will neither be able to buy nore sell" Rev 13:16-17 Does this not indicate that their will be a litteral forcing with severe conciquences for those who do not comply? Very interesting enough though, THE MARK that Jehovah uses to mark THOSE WHO ARE HIS is a spiritual mark when he commissions ezekial to walk through the city and mark those who are groaning and sighing over all the detestable things that were happening on their foreheads.

It appears that Satan think in very litteral terms of what Jehovah uses as symbolic Almost as though whatever Jehovah does, his (satan's) attitude is "I can do it better" He has taken all of his skill and crafty acts and geared them to the more concrete, knowing that humans have the tendacy to want to see with eyes of flesh rather than eyes of faith, therefore he uses that to his advantage. Well, what is the point to all my blubering? This mark, in whatever shape or form that it takes, will be a very real, a very physical mark that will be placed on all those who are promoters of this satanic system. At this point, The Demons are only awaiting word from the their masters as to what form this mark will take.


Hello again Gabriel, Warm Greetings in Christ.

Let's examine a few key points as to the identity of the Mark of the Beast. First, you draw the correct contrast and correlation between this Mark and the Mark that is given by the Man with the Secratary's Inkhorn. You have also correctly stated that the Secratary's Mark is a SPIRITUAL Mark. Just as a viewpoint question, why would the Mark of the Beast be other than Spiritual, if it is a corresponding mark of SPIRITUAL allegiance?

"14 And it misleads those who dwell on the earth, because of the signs that were granted it to perform in the sight of the wild beast, while it tells those who dwell on the earth to make an image to the wild beast that had the sword-stroke and yet revived. 15 And there was granted it to give breath to the image of the wild beast, so that the image of the wild beast should both speak and cause to be killed all those who would not in any way worship the image of the wild beast.

16 And it puts under compulsion all persons, the small and the great, and the rich and the poor, and the free and the slaves, that they should give these a mark in their right hand or upon their forehead, 17 and that nobody might be able to buy or sell except a person having the mark, the name of the wild beast or the number of its name." - Revelation 13:14 - 17

The Beast MISLEADS those who dwell on the earth. This is done by signs...reminiscent of the powerful works and signs that the Man Of Lawlessness would perform, also to mislead. Those who would not WORSHIP the Beast or its Image are placed under its authority to be killed. These are spoken of again in Revelation Chapter 20 as "those who had worshiped neither the wild beast nor its image and who had not received the mark upon their forehead and upon their hand. And they came to life and ruled as kings with the Christ for a thousand years." Again, a SPIRITUAL thought. This is referring to the 144,000. The 144,000, are chosen from Pentecost 33 onward. In order for them to refuse the Mark from 33 until Armageddon, the Mark would have to be something that would be in existence all throughout that time.

Those who accept the Mark are said to be put "under compulsion" to take the Mark. "Compulsion" is quite a different thing from "being forced." If the Mark were merely a physical thing, "forced" might make more sense, but since it is compulsory, it involves choice. Jehovah could not justly punish those who took the mark unwillingly, through force. Those who accept the Mark will do so WILLINGLY. Jehovah is looking for those who will WORSHIP in SPIRIT and TRUTH, thus, the Mark is tied into the WORSHIP of the beast. Take for example the Nazi Concentration Camps and our brothers and sister in both the Jehovah's Witnesses and the Bible Students groups, who were made to wear Purple Triangles. These indentifying marks were not merely compulsory, but forcibly worn...our brothers and sisters had no choice. If the Mark of the Beast were at issue during this trial, as I suspect it may have been, it had little or nothing to do with the Purple Triangles. The "Mark" issue or choice that those brothers had to make was whether or not to sign the paper renouncing their faith in Jehovah. Signing that paper would have shown their allegiance to the Nazi war machine, as well as to their flesh, and that their faith was not in Jehovah or His saving power, but rather in the fleshly arm of the Third Reich. Several situations like these have presented themselves to Jehovah's Sheep throughout the centuries, and no doubt will do so again in connection with the 8th King.

The Mark is associated not with FORM but with FUNCTION. While in a future application, the Mark MAY PROVE TO BE a choice in regards to a physical marking or implant, the form is irrelevant to the function it serves, that of demonstrable worship of Satan's 8th King, spurning Jehovah and the rightful rule of His Christ.

Or as I put it in another thread:

Quote:
Let us please remember that the "Mark" is not simply a tracking device that can be unwittingly accepted by an uneducated public. This will not involve trickery. It will be a clear and decisive choice to "worship the image of the wild beast".

So we can see that this "Mark" is received in connection with the compulsory acceptance of the rule of the beast. This will involve a conscientious decision to worship the beast and give it glory, to the exclusion of Jehovah, the One who rightly deserves our praise, honor and glory.


Hope this helps.

Your fellow slave in Christ

SlaveForJah


I would love to hear some more of your thoughts on the matter. May Jah's love be with you.


Agape

SlaveForJah

Pages: 1 2 3
Reference URL's