Paradise Cafe Discussions - A Place For Bible Research And Christian Encouragement

Full Version: Hail, Almighty Organization
You're currently viewing a stripped down version of our content. View the full version with proper formatting.
"Hail, Almighty Organization"

Norman Hovland

When investigating the Watchtower literature the picture of an organization-worshipping cult emerges pretty strong. The Watchtower magazine never let any opportunity to promote the "Organization" slip through their fingers. Let us take a look at some of the statements made in the Watchtower. First of all it is of great importance to hammer in the "authority" of the "Organization". Anybody who has gone to the Theocratic Obedience school are familiar with these. To resist the Almighty Watchtower "Organization" is to resist JESUS!:

7 To hold to the headship of Christ, it is therefore necessary to obey the organization that he is personally directing. Doing what the organization says is to do what he says. Resisting the organization is to resist him. [The Watchtower, May 1, 1959, p. 269]

When the "Organization" speaks it is in reality Jehovah who speaks:

When our heavenly Father, Jehovah God, speaks, whether through his Word, the Bible, or through his earthly organization, it is all the more important for us to listen and obey, thus proving that we are obedient worshipers who do not ignore the loving reminder: "Did you hear me?" [The Watchtower, April 1, 1988, p. 31]

All other organizations will "take advantage of you":

30 The flock of God keep together. They do not stray from the New World society. In the old-world organization there are snares and pitfalls. The dangers are everywhere. Men and organizations will take advantage of you, and you will have no protection. Keep inside God's organization. [The Watchtower, March 15, 1958, p. 189]

Obedience to the "Organization" is what counts:

So be obedient. Do Jehovah's work in Jehovah's way. It is the way Jehovah has marked out through his organization. That alone counts! [The Watchtower, April 15, 1956, p. 243]

The "Organization" is everything according to "one brother":

19 As the body needs food, care, and direction, we need the spiritual provisions that God gives us through his Word, spirit, and organization. To benefit from these provisions, we must be part of Jehovah's earthly family. After many years in God's service, one brother wrote: "I am so thankful that I have lived in the knowledge of Jehovah's purposes from those early days just prior to 1914 when all was not so clear ... to this day when the truth shines like the noonday sun. If one thing has been most important to me, it has been the matter of keeping close to Jehovah's visible organization. My early experience taught me how unsound it is to rely on human reasoning. Once my mind had been resolved on that point, I determined to stay by the faithful organization. How else can one get Jehovah's favor and blessing?" [The Watchtower, July 15, 1996, p. 20]

9 After many years of service to Jehovah, one brother said: "If one thing has been most important to me, it has been the matter of keeping close to Jehovah's visible organization. My early experience taught me how unsound it is to rely on human reasoning. Once my mind had been resolved on that point, I determined to stay by the faithful organization. How else can one get Jehovah's favor and blessing?" Do you similarly cherish your privilege of serving Jehovah with his joyful people? (Psalm 100:2) If so, you will let nothing draw you away from God's organization or destroy your relationship with the One whose arm saves all who love him. [The Watchtower, October 1, 1991, p. 10]

The "Organization" is our savior:

But if we were to draw away from Jehovah's organization, there would be no place else to go for salvation and true joy. [The Watchtower, September 15, 1993, p. 22]

This is done in the form of Bible literature and instruction on how to gain salvation. Today, Jehovah is speeding up the gathering of sheep like ones into his expanding organization, [The Watchtower, January 15, 1992, p. 17]

12 To ensure their salvation, Noah and his family needed to exercise faith. This meant following instructions and the leadings of God's holy spirit. During the great tribulation, it will be just as imperative that we follow the leadings of the holy spirit and obey Jehovah's instructions through his organization. [The Watchtower, September 15, 1991, p. 17]

And while now the witness yet includes the invitation to come to Jehovah's organization for salvation, the time no doubt will come when the message takes on a harder tone, like a "great war cry". [The Watchtower, November 15, 1981, p. 21]

19 The four angels will not always 'hold tight' the four winds of the earth. We can be happy that they have done so up until this hour, and that it will result in salvation for millions of mankind. But time is fast running out. We need to keep alive, alert, constantly moving forward with God's organization on the earth. [The Watchtower, October 1, 1978, p. 13]

28 Are you willing to 'gird yourself with lowliness of mind,' to "put on the apron of humility"? Are you willing to accept Jehovah's way for salvation? In this twentieth century we have an example of humility, of lowliness of mind, that is found world wide. It is in the organization of Jehovah's witnesses. Why not read on and see how they have humbly conformed to Jehovah's way for salvation? [The Watchtower, July 1, 1974, p. 407]

This signifies that the provision of salvation is closely connected with Jehovah's organization. A remnant of the spiritual priestly class is still on earth today, forming the nucleus of the congregation of Jehovah's people. We cannot ignore the role the visible congregation of Jehovah's witnesses plays in this provision of salvation. [The Watchtower, August 15, 1967, p. 499]

So the visible congregation of God's people has something to do with the provision of salvation today. Indeed, it has an important place in that provision. Every congregation forms a small part of God's people. We cannot remain outside the organization of God's people, separated from it, if we want to have Jehovah's protection. [The Watchtower, August 15, 1967, p. 499]

If we want to assure our everlasting salvation, we must stay within the bounds of Jehovah God's loving provision associated with his visible organization, presided over by his High Priest. [The Watchtower, August 15, 1967, p. 503]

To understand the Bible for their salvation they had to have it explained through God's organization. [The Watchtower, November 15, 1961, p. 692]

Why this tremendous influx into Jehovah's witnesses' organization? It is because people are finding salvation. [The Watchtower, January 1, 1959, pp. 19-23.]

Those desiring salvation must make for God's organization, and find entrance into it and remain there permanently. [The Watchtower, October 1, 1952, p. 603]

It would make the organization odious in the eyes of sincere people and would prevent these offended ones from coming to the organization and being saved. [The Watchtower, April 15, 1951, p. 240]

There must yet be many hundreds, yes thousands, of persons of good will who will want to come into Jehovah's organization, the unwalled city around which Jehovah, like a burning fire, has thrown his protection. The Singapore publishers are thankful to be in it and to have the privilege of helping others to find their way into it by God's undeserved kindness for their eternal salvation. [The Watchtower, July 15, 1951, p. 431]

Jehovah's servants plant the message of truth in the hearts of men of good will, studying the Bible with the people who desire to learn, and this produces fruit after cultivation. (Matt. 13:23) Thus these gain words of salvation and seek refuge and life through Jehovah's organization. [The Watchtower, September 1, 1951, p. 535]

The ark which this Greater Noah constructs consists of a new system of things, a new divine arrangement which affords us protection and preserves us for eternal salvation. The congregation, the theocratic organization which he builds, must live within this new system of things and must think, speak and work in harmony with it. This ark or theocratic structure is the laughingstock of the world, because it is built according to God's instructions and for his purpose. It is different! The world has seen nothing like it and does not understand it. [The Watchtower, November 15, 1951, p. 681]

The ark of salvation that we enter is not a literal ark but is God's organization [The Watchtower, June 1, 1950, p. 176]

1 Bible students need to get acquainted with the organization of the "one flock" Jesus spoke about at John 10:16. They must appreciate that identifying themselves with Jehovah's organization is essential to their salvation. (Rev. 7:9, 10, 15) Therefore, we should start directing our Bible students to the organization as soon as a Bible study is established. [Our Kingdom Ministry, November 1990, p. 1]

Can Jehovah's Witnesses today take part in this obviously "modern version of idolatry" and actually "imputing of salvation to a person or an organization"?

16 As Christians, we face up to similar challenges today. We cannot take part in any modern version of idolatry -- be it worshipful gestures toward an image or symbol or the imputing of salvation to a person or an organization. [The Watchtower, November 1, 1990, p. 26]

Now we all know the answer to that, don't we? Jehovah's Witnesses most certainly can and they really do impute salvation to an organization. The Almighty Watchtower "Organization"!

The Watchtower "Organization" has also provided an excellent and highly illuminating example of what the next Watchtower statement describes:

The Bible gives us a striking example of this. It emphasizes the point that, even though sincere, an individual or even an entire organization can fall far short of exclusive devotion to God. [The Watchtower, April 15, 1972, p. 250]

After having investigated the history of the Watchtower Society, we can all see the wisdom of this next quote:

No man, regardless of how prominent he may be and with what power he may be invested, religious or political, no nation of this world and no international organization can provide true security and salvation for mankind. [The Watchtower, August 15, 1967, p. 494]

How true! What a waste of time, resources and effort it has been for the millions of people who have fallen prey for the Watchtower's international "Organization" of con men, who have devoted their entire lives slaving away for something they all thought was their "salvation".

What a tragedy!

Warm Christian Love
Bangalore

Bangalore Wrote:
"Hail, Almighty Organization"



Bangalore,

Your post is a gem!

Thank you, I have bookmarked it in my favorites.

I am comforted that some people clearly recognise the deception.

Jesus Christ gave us many warnings throughout the Bible about being gathered together by false and ingenious expressions designed to ultimately mislead the "chosen ones".

Here is one of Jesus Christ's most important warnings delivered to those who are living at the conclusion of this system of things:

Matthew 24:23-26
23 “Then if anyone says to YOU, ‘Look! Here is the Christ,’ or, ‘There!’ do not believe it. 24 For false Christs and false prophets will arise and will give great signs and wonders so as to mislead, if possible, even the chosen ones. 25 Look! I have forewarned YOU. 26 Therefore, if people say to YOU, ‘Look! He is in the wilderness,’ do not go out; ‘Look! He is in the inner chambers,’ do not believe it!

It certainly is a "wonder" that so many have been misled while ignoring Jesus Christ's very strong admonishments!

Even many of the "chosen ones".

Do misled people know they have been misled?

I speak at length about this in my recently published book and would like to post an excerpt which fully supports your discernments.

Here it is:
===============================================

The Inner Chambers

Satan could lure and gather those same chosen ones together to a different place before Jesus Christ comes to do the same. In fact Jesus Christ warns us of this through the scriptures immediately preceding those which mention his own plan:

Matthew 24:23
“Then if anyone says to you, ’Look! Here is the Christ,’ or, ‘There!’ do not believe it. 24 For false Christ’s and false prophets will arise and give great signs and wonders so as to mislead, if possible, even the chosen ones. 25 Look! I have forewarned you. 26 Therefore if people say to you. ‘Look! He is in the wilderness’ do not go out; ‘Look! He is in the inner chambers,’ do not believe it.”

Jesus Christ leaves no doubt in the scriptures that chosen ones should be very, very, very careful about where they might be gathered together.

The thought that his faithful slave had passed inspection by Jesus Christ in 1919 was an unrighteous deception. The Governing Body of Jehovah Witnesses has convinced over 6 million people that Jesus Christ is directing their activities from somewhere deep inside the Brooklyn Bethel Headquarters of the Watchtower Bible and Tract Society. They have skillfully convinced Jehovah’s Witnesses by indirectly saying; ‘Look! He is in the inner chambers’, another unclean inspired expression. Jehovah’s people have been operating in error since then. Why would THE God, Jehovah, allow his witnesses to be governed by an evil slave, the man of lawlessness for so long?

The scripture at 2nd Thessalonians Chapter 2 explains the reason why:

2 Thessalonians 2:11
So that is why God lets an operation of error go to them, that they may get to believing the lie, 12 in order that they all may be judged because they did not believe the truth but took pleasure in unrighteousness.

Who is it that is really behind the lies and deception?

2nd Thessalonians 2:9
But the lawless ones presence is according to the operation of Satan with every powerful work and lying signs and portents (wonders)10 and with every unrighteous deception.

These scriptures imply that the lawless ones presence would be found right inside of God’s True Kingdom!

===============================================


Your post above leaves no doubt in my mind that Jehovah's Witnesses have been convinced to believe (misled) that "God's Spirit Directed Organization" is being directed by a small esoteric group of men who say they are in direct communication with Jesus Christ himself from somewhere deep inside the Brooklyn Bethel Headquarters of the Watchtower Bible and Tract Society.

What they are really saying is; "Look! He is in the inner chambers!"

The things that Jesus Christ warned us about so many times are actually happening!

It truly is a "wonder" that so many have been misled.

Even the chosen ones!

The WTBTS are REALLY saying to 6 million Jehovah's Witnesses; ’Look! Here is the Christ,’

and they ALL believe it even when Jesus Christ explicitly said; "do not believe it!"

If a Jehovah's Witness is now reading this then all I can say is please, please, I beg you please trust in what Jesus Christ said and have faith in his truths!

2nd Thessalonians 2:13
13 However, we are obligated to thank God always for YOU, brothers loved by Jehovah, because God selected YOU from [the] beginning for salvation by sanctifying YOU with spirit and by YOUR faith in the truth.

Here is a link to my book promo site:

Jehovah's Witnesses - The Bible Report <--- click

regards

With Love in Christ

ablebodiedman

Hi ABM,

You said and I agree..

"If a Jehovah's Witness is now reading this then all I can say is please, please, I beg you please trust in what Jesus Christ said and have faith in his truths!"

This is the main thing, being Faithful to the original Truth. His ancient holy counsels that are written in our hearts from birth. It seems like mankind goes astray from birth on, listening to lies, but we must remember the Truth we have left, to get back on the narrow road leading to life, to be able to hear the Father's voice once again. Once we do finally see clearly that we were mislead by lies (the thief) we can never go back following hired men again. Its like we have reached the point of no return, and can never look back on the old ways, because they seem pointless and dead now. When we die this way, it changes the world, it causes the world to live again. It causes heaven to rejoice! This is why the world is changing so fast now, the Father is speeding up things. He is resurrecting the entire earth, the way it was originally meant to be. To those who do overcome, they know what the spiritual resurrection truly means. Rev. 2:16-17....Repent; or else I will come unto thee quickly, and will fight against them with the sword of my mouth.

He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches; To him that overcometh will I give to eat of the hidden manna, and will give him a white stone, and in the stone a new name written, which no man knoweth saving he that receiveth it.

This scripture above will be made real to you. You will see , know and understand this fully if you overcome. This is why I know how close we are to Jesus coming, because this is now being fulfilled at this time, thats why it says, let them that have ears listen to what the spirit of truth is saying to the churches . Most will not hear though, and will laugh and mock at those who testify to this above scripture.


Psalms 58:3
The wicked are estranged from the womb: they go astray as soon as they are born, speaking lies.

To all JW's, make your covanant with the Faithful God Of Truth. He wants us to sacrifice to Him alone. The sacrifices He wants is a broken and contrite spirit given to him , and to live honestly and truthfully worshipping him with His holy spirit within our hearts, and practicing the fruits of righteousness he set forth for us to follow. These are the sacrifices he wants. Man has made everything so complicated, when it is really simple. Worship God like Abraham and Jacob did, within your heart. God knows the secret person of our hearts, and wants a personal relationship with him, to be a clean bride for his son.

Psalms 50:1-23
1. The mighty God, even the LORD, hath spoken, and called the earth from the rising of the sun unto the going down thereof.

2. Out of Zion, the perfection of beauty, God hath shined.

3. Our God shall come, and shall not keep silence: a fire shall devour before him, and it shall be very tempestuous round about him.

4. He shall call to the heavens from above, and to the earth, that he may judge his people.

5.( Gather my saints together unto me; those that have made a covenant with me by sacrifice.)

6. And the heavens shall declare his righteousness: for God is judge himself. Selah.

7. Hear, O my people, and I will speak; O Israel, and I will testify against thee: I am God, even thy God.

8. I will not reprove thee for thy sacrifices or thy burnt offerings, to have been continually before me.

9. I will take no bullock out of thy house, nor he goats out of thy folds.

10. For every beast of the forest is mine, and the cattle upon a thousand hills.

11. I know all the fowls of the mountains: and the wild beasts of the field are mine.

12. If I were hungry, I would not tell thee: for the world is mine, and the fulness thereof.

13.Will I eat the flesh of bulls, or drink the blood of goats?

14.Offer unto God thanksgiving; and pay thy vows unto the most High:

15. And call upon me in the day of trouble: I will deliver thee, and thou shalt glorify me.

16. But unto the wicked God saith, What hast thou to do to declare my statutes, or that thou shouldest take my covenant in thy mouth?

17. Seeing thou hatest instruction, and casteth my words behind thee.

18. When thou sawest a thief, then thou consentedst with him, and hast been partaker with adulterers.

19. Thou givest thy mouth to evil, and thy tongue frameth deceit.

20. Thou sittest and speakest against thy brother; thou slanderest thine own mother's son.

21. These things hast thou done, and I kept silence; thou thoughtest that I was altogether such an one as thyself: but I will reprove thee, and set them in order before thine eyes.

22. Now consider this, ye that forget God, lest I tear you in pieces, and there be none to deliver.

23. Whoso offereth praise glorifieth me: and to him that ordereth his conversation aright will I shew the salvation of God.

Psalms 51:6-19
6.Behold, thou desirest truth in the inward parts: and in the hidden part thou shalt make me to know wisdom.

7. Purge me with hyssop, and I shall be clean: wash me, and I shall be whiter than snow.

8. Make me to hear joy and gladness; that the bones which thou hast broken may rejoice.

9. Hide thy face from my sins, and blot out all mine iniquities.

10. Create in me a clean heart, O God; and renew a right spirit within me.

11. Cast me not away from thy presence; and take not thy holy spirit from me.

12. Restore unto me the joy of thy salvation; and uphold me with thy free spirit.

13. Then will I teach transgressors thy ways; and sinners shall be converted unto thee.

14. Deliver me from bloodguiltiness, O God, thou God of my salvation: and my tongue shall sing aloud of thy righteousness.

15. O Lord, open thou my lips; and my mouth shall shew forth thy praise.

16. For thou desirest not sacrifice; else would I give it: thou delightest not in burnt offering.

17. (The sacrifices of God are a broken spirit: a broken and a contrite heart, O God, thou wilt not despise.)

18. Do good in thy good pleasure unto Zion: build thou the walls of Jerusalem.

19. Then shalt thou be pleased with the sacrifices of righteousness, with burnt offering and whole burnt offering: then shall they offer bullocks upon thine altar.

I am at this point in my life. I feel so happy in my heart because I know that I am finally at rest and waiting on the Father and have found complete peace and trust in the Father.

Ps. 55:6-8

6. And I said, Oh that I had wings like a dove! for then would I fly away, and be at rest.

7. Lo, then would I wander far off, and remain in the wilderness. Selah.

8. I would hasten my escape from the windy storm and tempest.


With much love,
New Heart
From the July 1st 1955 Watchtower Magazine:

"A Christian, therefore, cannot be baptized in the name of the one actually doing the immersing or in the name of any man, nor in the name of any organization, but in the name of the Father, the Son and the holy spirit."

It also says; "Christianity is not a denominational affair".

If you ARE a Jehovah's Witness reading this please verify on your Watchtower CD Library!

and in the appendix of my new book:







Regards

ablebodiedman
WOW!

Anyone who reads through all of these quotes and does not see IDOLATRY written all over the Society in BIG letters, must truly be blinded!
Hi John!
You have a way of conserving words yet say a lot!
Kudos! :drinking:

John Wrote:
WOW!

Anyone who reads through all of these quotes and does not see IDOLATRY written all over the Society in BIG letters, must truly be blinded!



Hello John,

The anointed ones who come of victorious from the wild beast will sing a song about them!

Here is a few verses:

5 They have acted ruinously on their own part; <-- Jehovah's Witnesses
They are not his children, the defect is their own.
A generation crooked and twisted!

6 Is it to Jehovah that YOU keep doing this way,
O people stupid and not wise?
Is he not your Father who has produced you, <-- Jehovah's Witnesses
He who made you and proceeded to give you stability?

16 They began inciting him to jealousy with strange gods; <-- The man of lawlessness
With detestable things they kept offending him. <-- The disgusting thing enters holy place
17 They went sacrificing to demons, not to God, <-- Satan has undermined the kingdom
Gods whom they had not known, <-- The wild beast
New ones who recently came in, <-- The 10 Kings
With whom YOUR forefathers were not acquainted.

18 The Rock who fathered you, you proceeded to forget,
And you began to leave God out of memory,
the One bringing you forth with childbirth pains. <-- Yes, It was God's True Kingdom!
19 When Jehovah saw it, then he came to disrespect them,
Because of the vexation his sons and his daughters gave.

20 So he said, ‘Let me conceal my face from them,
Let me see what their end will be afterward. <-- he allowed them to "operate in error"
For they are a generation of perverseness,
Sons in whom there is no faithfulness.



The song of Moses!

The anointed who come off victorious will be singing about their brothers who allowed God's True Kingdom to deteriorate to such a deplorable condition as described in the song!

Now do you see why Jehovah's Witnesses are (were) in God's True Kingdom!


Are there any other religions who use God's name and have allowed this to happen!

Jesus Christ is NOW calling the righteous ones out because the "operation of error" will no longer be allowed to continue.

The holy city WILL be desolated and the holy people will be dashed to pieces!

Daniel 12:7
And as soon as there will have been a finishing of the dashing of the power of the holy people to pieces, all these things will come to their finish.”


regards


ablebodiedman

so, as someone commented earlier, you and rus virgil both share in touting the 'song of moses' and making application of it in a way that favors your own interpretation of scripture. :thinking:

that same poster went further and alleged that you and rus virgil also consider yourselves 'the two witnesses' spoken of in revelation. may i ask: 'is that how you perceive yourself?' and, if so: 'upon what basis?' :thinking:

any comments? :coffeeread:

ablebodiedman Wrote:

John Wrote:
WOW!

Anyone who reads through all of these quotes and does not see IDOLATRY written all over the Society in BIG letters, must truly be blinded!

Hello John,

The anointed ones who come of victorious from the wild beast will sing a song about them! .....

...Daniel 12:7
And as soon as there will have been a finishing of the dashing of the power of the holy people to pieces, all these things will come to their finish.”

regards

ablebodiedman


Dear able,

I can see how YOU arrive at that conclusion, but I am not sure how much I agree. I do appreciate the explanation though; will think on it.

Peace!

John

P.S.

What do you mean by, "Were" in God's Kingdom?

isomam Wrote:

so, as someone commented earlier, you and rus virgil both share in touting the 'song of moses' and making application of it in a way that favors your own interpretation of scripture. :thinking:

that same poster went further and alleged that you and rus virgil also consider yourselves 'the two witnesses' spoken of in revelation. may i ask: 'is that how you perceive yourself?' and, if so: 'upon what basis?' :thinking:

any comments? :coffeeread:


Hello Isomam,

The Song of Moses is sung by those who come off victorius from the name of the wild beast; "God's Spirit Directed Organization".

A discerning reader will notice that Jehovah is talking about his own Kingdom which is being brough forth with much childbirth pains and many transgressions.

Rus Virgil does not claim to have made many discerments of his own. He attributes much wisdom and discernment to his mentor who does not speak or read English. Rus Virgil is one of his translators.

His mentors name is Sas Gavril, a man who is from the east, a country towards the sunrising. Sas Gavril is the one who had the wisdom required to calculate the number of the wild beasts name, 666.

I had already determined the name of the wild beast but was unable to calculate the number.

It was Rus Virgil who helped me understand the calculation.

He did it in a thread which I believe can still be found on this forum.

I asked the question on the Paradise Cafe and it was actually answered a few posts before I asked it. Imagine that!

I will put a link to the thread here when I find it.

The two witnesses will do the following:

Revelation 11
“Get up and measure the temple [sanctuary] of God and the altar and those worshiping in it. 2 But as for the courtyard that is outside the temple [sanctuary],

The book I have offered to you at no cost does exactly that!

If I am one of the two witnesses then you should consider whether the words of truth I have made in many of the posts here have tormented anyone?

Also consider that should I be gone from this forum and killed symbolically or literally would people be relieved?

Would they rejoice?

Would the Governing Body of Jehovah's Witnesses rejoice and enjoy themselves when I am gone.

Revelation 11
10 And those dwelling on the earth rejoice over them and enjoy themselves, and they will send gifts to one another, because these two prophets tormented those dwelling on the earth.

My book would help anyone reading it understand exactly why the Governing Body would rejoice at my demise. Yes, I even believe they would send gifts to eachother.

Yes, I believe that I am one of the two witnesses and that Sas Gavril is the other!

I live in Canada, the north.

The book I freely offered to you is a Bible Report which is delivered "out of the north".

If you truly want to understand the full extent to which my book will torment the Governing Body then you will need to read it.

I hope that you will not be one of those who rejoice over my eventual and prophecied departure.


I also hope that you have not been tormented by reading my answer to your question.


In Christ

ablebodiedman

John Wrote:

ablebodiedman Wrote:

John Wrote:
WOW!

Anyone who reads through all of these quotes and does not see IDOLATRY written all over the Society in BIG letters, must truly be blinded!

Hello John,

The anointed ones who come of victorious from the wild beast will sing a song about them! .....

...Daniel 12:7
And as soon as there will have been a finishing of the dashing of the power of the holy people to pieces, all these things will come to their finish.”

regards

ablebodiedman


Dear able,

I can see how YOU arrive at that conclusion, but I am not sure how much I agree. I do appreciate the explanation though; will think on it.

Peace!

John

P.S.

What do you mean by, "Were" in God's Kingdom?



John,

I have explained in the thread named "Disfellowshipping is Prophetic" that the real kingdom can now only be found outside the camp, outside the gates of the holy city where at one time the True Kingdom could be found. That is what I mean by, "Were" in God's Kingdom?

Regards

ablebodiedman

OK. Thanks for responding, so that I (we) may get a better grasp of your mindset and your self-perception.

I won't stand in your way. Carry on.

isomam Wrote:
OK. Thanks for responding, so that I (we) may get a better grasp of your mindset and your self-perception.

I won't stand in your way. Carry on.



Hello Isomam


Self perception?

If you do not believe my post above then hopefully you would then continue believing that there still would be two witnesses.

Would they be oblivious to their own identity?

How do you think they would perceive themselves?

Wouldn't it be a shame if they were then condemned for their own self-perception.

Do you think their tormented audience would actually have that kind mindset?

Here is the link to where I asked the question about how to calculate the number 666 on this very same forum over a year ago. It was not long after that I decided to write a book:

http://www.paradisecafediscussions.net/s...7#pid14107


BTW I have not seen or heard wots posting in this forum.


regards

ablebodiedman

OK, Abe. My last post here. I don't wish to banter with you, because I consider it all to be time-wasting idle chatter.

In this case, -- again, -- you begin with a giant leap of faith and expect everyone else to have 'leapt' right along with you. You make the presupposition that "the two witnesses" are two individuals, -- two humans, imperfect descendants of Adam. I could show you at least a dozen far more credible interpretations for "the two witnesses." But, I know it would only be wasted words.

You will learn. In time. The first thing you will learn will be humility.

This is my official 'over'n'out' for the discussion. ... isomam

So ABM is one of the two witnesses, Robert King is the Watchman, and Don Burney is the Cheftain. Where does that leave us?

Warm Christian Love
Bangalore
Pages: 1 2 3
Reference URL's