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OK...have read through this thread to try to get a handle on what is going on. A few things jump out at me and I'll try to make these clear.

Firstly, this was originally a thread about the WT org inserting themselves into a position that only Jesus fills. As was mentioned by Derek:

Quote:
When someone professes special knowledge that will lead to salvation and life, the Christian is not duped by such a profession. He/she knows that in Christ there is a complete work of God that will give life to the sheep that listen.

So, friends, if you are looking for another organisation/or spiritual revealer of God's mysteries of truth, the sooner you find out its a blind alley for us the better.

Jesus is the WAY, the TRUTH and the LIFE.
If you have not been liberated by the Lord Jesus, pray now that he will free you by the Holy Spirit to know the peace and freedom only the Lord can give to we sorely trapped creatures of flesh and blood.


AMEN! Derek bro! As Hebrews 1:1-2 informs us:

"God, who long ago spoke on many occasions and in many ways to our forefathers by means of the prophets, has at the end of these days spoken to us by means of a Son, whom he appointed heir of all things, and through whom he made the systems of things."


The second thing I became aware of in this thread is that the theme shifted from the WT org attempting to replace Jesus as savior over to ABM attempting the same thing. To add insult to injury this thread has become a shameless book promotion starting with the second post.

Quote:
post #2
Do misled people know they have been misled?

I speak at length about this in my recently published book and would like to post an excerpt which fully supports your discernments.

Here is a link to my book promo site:

Jehovah's Witnesses - The Bible Report <--- click


Quote:
#4
and in the appendix of my new book:


Quote:
#10
The book I have offered to you at no cost does exactly that!

My book would help anyone reading it understand exactly why the Governing Body would rejoice at my demise. Yes, I even believe they would send gifts to eachother.


I live in Canada, the north.

The book I freely offered to you is a Bible Report which is delivered "out of the north".

If you truly want to understand the full extent to which my book will torment the Governing Body then you will need to read it.


Quote:
#13
Here is the link to where I asked the question about how to calculate the number 666 on this very same forum over a year ago. It was not long after that I decided to write a book


Quote:
#19
Unless there was a way to carefully explain their predicament and have them understand why their lives are in danger. That's the reason I wrote a book. Theres just too much evidence to post in only one thread.

It is spread around in several threads in this forum (and others) , my blog(s), and video's.

The best place is still in the book which has the most comprehensive explanations all contained in one easy convenient place.

If you are an anointed one then it was written specifically for you.

I can start posting excerpts from the book which will start to build toward the explanation of the 10 kings, 7 heads, the wild beast and, the death stroke.

This thread will become very lengthy.


*note to ABM: You have links to your book. Please do not clog up this thread (which is not about your book) with excerpts which will no doubt result in this thread becoming very lenthy.

The third thing I noticed was the clever spin in post #24. A careful examination of the phrase isolated with quote marks will reveal what the writer intends for the reader to see. (Let the reader use discernment).

Keepin' an eye out,:detective:
Rez:giverose:

OneTheEdge Wrote:
Dear Ablebodiedman,

While I find some of your interpretations to be something to weigh and give consideration to- I don't think that anyone would feel tormented by a symbolic or literal death based on you witnessing your translations.

I recently sent an PM saying that I am very greived by reading your work. There are several reaons for my greif-

If your right- How sad for all the blind JW's. Even worse, I know my mom,sister, and brother will most likely not be swayed to change their false worship of the WTBTS. Also, all those who out of right heartedness think they are doing right are actually do wrong (which I already think without your interpretation). I greive for their misguided worship. I pain for their stupor.

But if your wrong- then you are under a bad spirit.

So either way. There is a need to dicipher, pray, and keep going at it. We, as Christian are liable to help the JW's see the light or we need to help you see your error.

That's just the way I see it.

Where do you show your interpretation of the 10 kings, 7 heads, and the since you have the wild beast as SDO, whats the death stroke and the other beast?

Thank you for your time and attention.

With Christian Love, Debbie



Debbie,

Please start a new thread with your very pertinent and righteous questions as the moderators do not seem to think they should be answered in this thread.

I think it really is a valuable discussion which should not be lost.


regards


ablebodiedman

Quote:
our dear sister resolute recently started a thread entitled "understanding mental illness." i hereby request of her to add segments on the mental illnesses associated with "grandiosity" and "messiah complex." i would love nothing better, abm, than to assist you to become unshackled from the burdensome delusional world in which you exist. ... "let him that has ears to listen, listen." ... "let the reader use discernment."


Actually, iso-bro, my next entry that I was planning for the "Understanding Mental Illness" was on that very subject. I was thinking of calling it "When mental illness masquerades as religious zeal (and/or authority?)"

Not only do we have this sort of thing appearing here at the PC on a fairly regular basis but also the WT governing body as a group manifest this sort of illness as can be seen from Bangalore's original post.

I'm hoping to add that to the thread soon. Just need to do some more research.

Love,
Rez:giverose:

Quote:
Would a righteous moderator please carefully examine Isomam's Ad Hominen posts as they seem to be more than just habitual.


OK...does everyone know the definition of that 3 dollar expression "ad hominem"? (um:confused:)....whenever anyone uses Latin terms on me I run to Wikipedia to make sure I've got a proper handle on it. Here is a tiddy-bit from that source. (The reader can reach his own conclusions):

Quote:
Types of ad hominems

Three traditionally identified varieties are ad hominem abusive (or ad personam), ad hominem circumstantial, and ad hominem tu quoque.

[edit] Ad hominem abusive

Ad hominem abusive (also called argumentum ad personam) usually and most notoriously involves insulting or belittling one's opponent, but can also involve pointing out factual but ostensibly damning character flaws or actions which are irrelevant to the opponent's argument. This tactic is logically fallacious because insults and even true negative facts about the opponent's personal character have nothing to do with the logical merits of the opponent's arguments or assertions. This tactic is frequently employed as a propaganda tool among politicians who are attempting to influence the voter base in their favor through an appeal to emotion rather than by logical means, especially when their own position is logically weaker than their opponent's.

Examples:

* "You can't believe Jack when he says there is a God because he doesn't even have a job."
* "Charles Manson wrote this song, so it must be unlistenable".
* "Candidate Jane Jones's proposal X is ridiculous. She was caught cheating on her taxes in 2003."

[edit] Ad hominem circumstantial

Ad hominem circumstantial involves pointing out that someone is in circumstances such that he is disposed to take a particular position. Essentially, ad hominem circumstantial constitutes an attack on the bias of a person. The reason that this is fallacious in syllogistic logic is that pointing out that one's opponent is disposed to make a certain argument does not make the argument, from a logical point of view, any less credible; this overlaps with the genetic fallacy (an argument that a claim is incorrect due to its source).

On the other hand, where the person taking a position seeks to convince us by a claim of authority, or personal observation, observation of their circumstances may reduce the evidentiary weight of the claims, sometimes to zero.[4]

Examples:

* "Tobacco company representatives should not be believed when they say smoking doesn't seriously affect your health, because they're just defending their own multi-million-dollar financial interests."

* "He's physically addicted to nicotine. Of course he defends smoking!”

* "What do you know about politics? You're too young to vote!"

Mandy Rice-Davies's famous testimony, during the Profumo Affair, "Well, he would [say that], wouldn't he?", is an example of a valid circumstantial argument. Her point is that since a man in a prominent position, accused of an affair with a callgirl, would deny the claim whether it was true or false, his denial, in itself, carries little evidential weight against the claim of an affair. Note, however, that this argument is valid only insofar as it devalues the denial; it does not bolster the original claim. To construe evidentiary invalidation of the denial as evidentiary validation of the original claim is fallacious (on several different bases, including that of argumentum ad hominem); however likely the man in question would be to deny an affair that did in fact happen, he could only be more likely to deny an affair that never did.

[edit] Ad hominem tu quoque

Main article: tu quoque

Ad hominem tu quoque (lit: Also to you!) refers to a claim that the person making the argument has spoken or acted in a way inconsistent with the argument. In particular, if person A criticises the actions of person B, a tu quoque response is that A has acted in the same way.

[edit] Guilt by association

Main article: Association fallacy

Guilt by association can sometimes also be a type of ad hominem fallacy, if the argument attacks a person because of the similarity between the views of someone making an argument and other proponents of the argument.

This form of the argument is as follows:

Person A makes claim P.
Group B also make claim P.
Therefore, person A is a member of group B.

Example:

"You say the gap between the rich and poor is unacceptable, but communists also say this, therefore you are a communist"

This fallacy can also take another form:

Person A makes claim P.
Group B make claims P and Q
Therefore, Person A makes claim Q.

Examples:

"You say the gap between the rich and poor is unacceptable, but communists also say this, and they believe in revolution. Thus, you believe in revolution."

A similar tactic may be employed to encourage someone to renounce an opinion, or force them to choose between renouncing an opinion or admitting membership in a group. For example:

"You say the gap between the rich and poor is unacceptable. You don't really mean that, do you? Communists say the same thing. You're not a communist, are you?"

Guilt by association may be combined with ad hominem abusive. For example:

"You say the gap between the rich and poor is unacceptable, but communists also say this, and therefore you are a communist. Communists are unlikeable, and therefore everything they say is false, and therefore everything you say is false."

A reductio ad Hitlerum argument can be seen as an example of a "guilt by association" fallacy, since it attacks a viewpoint simply because it was supposedly espoused by Adolf Hitler, as if it is impossible that such a man could have held any viewpoint that is correct.

[edit] Inverse ad hominem

An inverse ad hominem argument praises a person in order to add support for that person's argument or claim. A fallacious inverse ad hominem argument may go something like this:

"That man was smartly-dressed and charming, so I'll accept his argument that I should vote for him"

As with regular ad hominem arguments, not all cases of inverse ad hominem are fallacious. Consider the following:

"Ludmila has never told a lie in her entire life, and she says she saw him take the bag. She must be telling the truth."

Here the arguer is not suggesting we accept Ludmila's argument, but her testimony. Her being an honest person is relevant to the truth of the conclusion (that he took the bag), just as her having bad eyesight (a regular case of ad hominem) would give reason not to believe her.

Appeal to authority is a type of inverse ad hominem argument.


Language lesson over, chicks!:huh:

Rez:P

Resolute Wrote:

Language lesson over, chicks!:huh:

Rez:P



Resolute Wrote:
Ad hominem abusive (also called argumentum ad personam) usually and most notoriously involves insulting or belittling one's opponent, but can also involve pointing out factual but ostensibly damning character flaws or actions which are irrelevant to the opponent's argument. This tactic is logically fallacious because insults and even true negative facts about the opponent's personal character have nothing to do with the logical merits of the opponent's arguments or assertions.




"insults and even true negative facts about the opponent's personal character have nothing to do with the logical merits of the opponent's arguments or assertions. "



Please find something in the following post which has anything to do with the logical merits or aruments in any post I have made above:


isomam Wrote:
hi, abm. let me try and be clear about certain things.

i don't "hate" you, or have anything personally against you.

actually, your present condition makes me extremely sad for you personally.

yet, i know that all human conditions are curable and fixable under christ's millennial reign; so, in time, you will be fine. this i believe.

my apprehension is that you might inadvertently have fallen under the direct influence of satan, the father of the lie.

all of your pedagoguery, -- your entire theological presentation -- smacks so strongly of the one who "keeps transforming himself into an angel of light."

in addition, it all smacks of unbelievable hubris and grandiosity. may i ask, who appointed you as one of "the two witnesses" as you have referenced yourself? what you have in common with don burney (self-proclaimed "chieftain"), robert king (self-proclaimed "watchman"), and a host of others, is the fact that you have built a religion upon a religion.

if you can agree with me (your type of language structure; recognize it?) that religion is the #1 tool of satan, then the unavoidable conclusion is this: the religion of jehovah's witnesses is at least as onerous as any other religion on earth. so it follows naturally that what you are doing (or attempting to do) is doubly evil. as OneTheEdge has inferred, the evidence seems to support the fact that you 'have a bad spirit' motivating you toward its own evil ends and operating through you to accomplish those evil ends.

characteristics of your thought process include:

--unsound "reasoning."
--strawman arguments.
--incredible leaps of logic.
--large quantities of half-truths and untruths.

i'll stop there to keep this simple and brief.

our dear sister resolute recently started a thread entitled "understanding mental illness." i hereby request of her to add segments on the mental illnesses associated with "grandiosity" and "messiah complex." i would love nothing better, abm, than to assist you to become unshackled from the burdensome delusional world in which you exist. ... "let him that has ears to listen, listen." ... "let the reader use discernment."

offered in sincere christian concern ... isomam



aka -----> ad hominem (habitual)


PCADMIN Wrote:
Just to clarify: It is only because of a PATTERN of these types of posts that we will take this action. All of us can get snarky from time to time. This is not a huge problem. What is a problem is when certain posters make a HABIT of this type of negative posting which creates a spirit of fighting and warring.
This would be destructive to the board and will not be allowed.



Not something you would expect in a "place for Bible Research and Christian Encouragement".



ablebodiedman

An old thread regarding organizational idolatry.

Warm Christian Love
Bangalore
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