Paradise Cafe Discussions - A Place For Bible Research And Christian Encouragement

Hi, Derek. :hibye: Excellent (and timely) question. I have been on these discussion boards since October, 2002. (I believe you have been on them much longer, yes?) I thought back long and hard over that period of time; and, I can't remember a time on any DB with which I was associated that was 100% free of contentious posters.

Throughout that period, my view of such ones has remained consistent. I view them as suffering and needing to be pitied because of the "darkness" which envelops them, and from which they either cannot or (presently) do not wish to break free.

I think it has changed a bit since the onset of the worldwide pandemic of terrorism, but a common expression over here in "the colonies" ;) :D used to be:

"While I despise what you are saying, I will defend to the death your right to say it."

I do my level best, Derek, to always maintain a long-term view. To that end, I often ask myself, in regard to whatever the matter at hand may be, "How much will this matter 5,000 years from now?" I chose "5,000 years" because I thought it best to extend, -- not only beyond this present time of trouble, -- but also beyond the end of "Christ's presence." To me, "Christ's presence" begins when it begins and will extend throughout the Millennial Reign of 1,000 years.

And then I stir into the mix my own belief (which I certainly hope is Scripturally-based) that eternal outcomes for individuals are not at stake just yet, here and now. Yes, gather the stones. I need a good "stoning," I know.

What I do believe about this present time period is that it affords all who will avail themselves, the opportunity to get an authentic "head start" in knowing YHWH and Christ Jesus; a head start in learning Their righteous ways; a head start in adopting Their divine character ("new personality" ... "wisdom from above" ... "fruitage of the [holy] spirit"); and, finally, knowing how to properly interact with our fellow human beings.

So, I guess I am saying that I think the answer to your question ...

What should our view be of those who would seek to undermine Christian faith?

... is a rather easy one for me.

For as long as they choose to remain arrogant, presumptuous, and dogmatic about ther assertions (many of which make no sense at all, prima facie), then I simply choose to steer clear and give them a wide berth. Occasionally, I will report a post; but, the problem there is that I first have to read their post so I can report it. And, frankly, some of the posts that I believe you have in mind turn my stomach. I find their foul and blasphemous words nauseating.

Perhaps a bit more difficult question would be:

What should our treatment be of those who would seek to undermine Christian faith?

My own journey has had distinct stages which I clearly recognize, given the benefit of hindsight. I remember with some embarrassment a time when I thought I had to try and be the "white knight" defending the fortress (of the DB's spiritual condition). I used to use my ... lance-a-lot. :whistle: When I saw what I considered to be trouble brewing, I would grab my white hat, :) saddle up, :supersmiley: and yell a hearty "Hi Ho Silver" :D as I rode into the fray to vanquish all opposers. :redface:

And, then, somewhere along the line I was reminded of Gamaliel's wise words recorded in Acts 5:34-38.

34 ... Gamaliel stood up in the meeting. He was a teacher of the law, and all the people respected him. He ordered the apostles to leave the meeting for a little while. 35 Then he said, "People of Israel, be careful what you are planning to do to these men. 36 Remember when Theudas appeared? He said he was a great man, and about four hundred men joined him. But he was killed, and all his followers were scattered; they were able to do nothing. 37 Later, a man named Judas came from Galilee at the time of the registration. He also led a group of followers and was killed, and all his followers were scattered. 38 And so now I tell you: Stay away from these men, and leave them alone. If their plan comes from human authority, it will fail.--Thomas Nelson's New Century Version.

So, lately, I am more inclined to merely "observe"; and, -- if I feel I should "engage," -- I am likely to attempt to do so with "viewpoint questions," rather than direct rebuttal.

Day after day, ... alone on a hill, ... the man with the foolish grin, :D is keeping perfectly still.

Anyway, those are my "foolish thoughts" from over here on a hill. :thinking:

Christian Love to You, Derek. :love: And to ALL. :love: isomam

I have reached the same conclusion...there will be a period of great enlightenment in the "final part of the days", and the decisions that determine the eternal fate of individuals will be much clearer than at present. When it comes down to it, salvation will not depend on things like the Trinity/no Trinity issue, it will come down to this:

"If, though, you want to enter into life, observe the commandments continually." -Matthew 5:17b

And this: "And the smoke of their torment ascends forever and ever, and day and night they have no rest, those who worship the wild beast and its image, and whoever receives the mark of its name. 12 Here is where it means endurance for the holy ones, those who observe the commandments of God and the faith of Jesus.” -Revelation 14:11,12.

It kind of answers the question for me, as to what will happen to those who never heard of Jesus....The way Godly people are living their lives will bring them to the truth, and salvation, somehow, some way.......

:heartbeat:
Jesh

Thanks for those thoughts, Matt. :) Excellent thoughts they are! :thumbup:

Especially since they are straight from the Scriptures. :read:

iso...

Thank you brother Derek and all the other brothers!

For clarifying why we keep quiet when some of us are letting out their feelings against God or the Bible

Earlier on I had become a bit mad at certain ones rather a bit foolishly and many on this board spoke up and I was corrected

I recognize now that we cannot let our views be forced upon others

And our answers should always be mild befitting a Christian

Thank you once again for your posts

Brother Farhat Zubair

You've missed my point, Dear Brother.

How could you oppress me; you are half a world away.

The remark was not for you alone, it was for all of us.

History has the pattern of repeating itself, where the oppressed become the oppressors.

I would hate to see that happen here.

So many sufferered, and some still do, under the tyranny of the WT.

Do we become like it, now that we are free from it, and create a stiffling atmosphere, where we have to look on a forty page list, to see if subjects we want to discuss are prohibited???

I hope not.

I remember a guy who called himself Watchman, and he had a board like this one.

At one time, a lot of us here thought Watchman's board was a haven.

I was there, many of you were there much, much longer.

We thought it was great, we could discuss those subjects that encouraged us, puzzled us, outraged us, free from the reprisal of the WT.

A couple of subjects though, had to become taboo because of the words of certain posters.

For instance, child abuse; Watchman had to enforce the rule that no member could post the kind of egregious arguments Thirdwitness and his ilk did in trying to convince others that such shameful things had never taken place and that the WT was guileless.

I, as well as many others here, confronted 3W on this, and other subjects like the NGO quite often.

His distortions became so vile, Watchman banned him.

That was necessary, the bounds of decency had been far overstepped by those people.

Watchman did good in that way.

Then, he became like the WT.

He conducted a mass banning of anyone who dissented from the views he held.

Which is why many of us are here.

Will this board become like what Watchman did to many of us, because their views don't coincide with the views of the majority???

I hope not.


"Two Lepta"

Love to All, Even those that don't share my viewpoints,
John