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Hi everyone!!

The word translated in the many English translations of the Bible as "Only Begotten" is in the greek, Monogenes μονογενής.

This is a compound word.

It is often thought that this word comes from two greek words...

monos μονος (only) and gennaō γενναω (to beget, father, procreate)

However, lexicographers believe this to be a false Etymology. (Etymology is the history or roots of a word).

It is more properly, monos μονος (only) genos γενο (kind), the best english phrase to describe this word would be, "One of a kind", or perhaps, "unique".

Only Begotten would be monogennetos. Thayer defines Monogenes μονογενής as, single of its kind, only.

This is supported by New Testament usage: Hebrews 11:17 refers to Isaac as Abraham’s ‘only begotten son’, yet Abraham begat other sons (Ishmael, and by Keturah). But Isaac was Abraham’s unique son, the son especially promised to him and Sarah in their old age, and who would carry on the covenant line.

Anyway, the reason I brought this up, is that some here say that Jesus was not created, but begotten. But the translation of monogenes as only begotten is probably wrong. That's why the ESV and NIV translate it as "Only" or "Only Son", and some other traslations as "Unique".

What do you think?

Matt
Looked up Liddle and Scotts, as ever and found out I had already underlined mono-genes.
It says as a definition, only begotten.

It then says born from the same mother.

Same genetics, parentage, whatever!

Think we had a similar discussion before.

Throw away silly words, like 'trinity' and it is surprising how close we are in our beliefs.
Jesus is a son, begotten from out of the father. He is the representation of His father and was perfected through suffering into His father's image whilst on earth, hence better than any angel. He is the impress, or stamp of His father.

vicky
Trinitarians have such a struggle with the Scriptural idea that Jesus is begotten; because this implies that he had a beginning, something that the Trinity doctrine, in its final incarnation, expressly denies. To help get around this, the original Nicene Creed was amended at the Council of Constantinople to state that Jesus was "eternally begotten" - although in my estimation this addition just makes for even more confusion.

Along these lines, I recently had the pleasure of listening to a Seminary professor, candidly explain his own difficulty with this term, "begotten". In order to reconcile it, he suggests that it was just used to indicate that the Son is separate from the Father. Though he admits he wasn't completely satisfied by this explanation.

From this perspective, it would certainly be helpful to their cause, to get rid of the tricky word, "begotten" all together. The problem for scholars is that even if you erase the word from the Bible you cannot delete the concept from Christian history.

I would question why, if monogenes simply means unique, without any concept of parentage, that the early Christians, including those who spoke and wrote in Greek, understood Jesus to be begotten of, or otherwise coming forth from, the Father? Were they simply confused on the matter, not having the benefit of 20th century Biblical Greek scholarship?

Here is a sampling of their writings leading up to the Creed of Nicea:

Justin Martyr, c. 160 Wrote:
The Word ... after God, who begat Him. ... Jesus Christ is the only proper Son who has been begotten by God, being His Word, His First-Begotten, His Power.


Theophilus, c. 180, commenting on John 1 Wrote:
When God wished to make all that He determined on, He begot this Word. He uttered the First-Born of all Creation.


Irenaeus, c. 180 Wrote:
The Son reveals the father, who begat the Son.


Clement of Alexandria, c. 195 Wrote:
The perfect Word born of the perfect Father was begotten in perfection.


Hippolytus, c. 205 Wrote:
The Father begat the Word as the Author, Fellow Counselor, and Framer of the things that have been created.


Tertullian, c. 207 Wrote:
God made Him His Son by emitting Him from Himself.


Origen, c. 225 Wrote:
Also the Son is generated by [the Father]


Cyprian, c. 250 Wrote:
Chris is the First-Born.


Alexander of Alexandria, c. 324 Wrote:
He is not begotten of things that are not, but of Him who is the Father.


Nicene Creed, 325 AD Wrote:
We believe ... in one Lord Jesus Christ, the Son of God, begotten of the Father, only-begotten, that is, of the substance of the Father; God of God; Light of Light, very God of very God; begotten, not made; being of one substance with the Father.

PS
Justin reads the 'early church fathers' like we might read the newspaper. I gave up on newspapers years ago, but should probably read the 'early church fathers'!

Love you, Justin, and thanks so much for the information.

Throw away witness and catholic doctrine and your heart will lead you to the truth.

There are two individuals, but closer than we puny humans can imagine.
A close creative pair, like Adam and Eve, who were together for almost a thousand years, or maybe it felt like forever,.... sorry joking.

vicky
Hi Vicky and Justin,
There you go: Tom Cabeen read and studied long and hard the Early Church fathers has become a Roman Catholic.


But with respect you are making statements about what happened before time.

Does the concept of "begotten in time" have any relevance to God and his Son when the Son was before all things and WAS already in the beginning?

I do not think even Isomam knows what happened before the Big-Bang! :) The Logos was before time existed.

Father and Son and begotten, are anthropomorphisms to help us grasp a reality we dimly perceive. We are like goldfish in a bowl trying to guess the thoughts and ways of an human sitting in the room.
WCL
Derek

Derek Wrote:
I do not think even Isomam knows what happened before the Big-Bang! :) The Logos was before time existed.

\

Hi Brother Derek :hibye:

I don't want to hijack the thread, but here's something you might find interesting....

http://www.sjcrothers.plasmaresources.com/index.html

:heartbeat:
Jesh

Derek Wrote:
Father and Son and begotten, are anthropomorphisms to help us grasp a reality we dimly perceive. We are like goldfish in a bowl trying to guess the thoughts and ways of an human sitting in the room.
WCL
Derek


Hi Derek,
This has been my paradigm also, for awhile now. The word
"begotten" implies a flesh and blood creature with a womb. I don't see YHWH that way. Our 4 dimensional world as well as our language fails us. I look at it more as a Quantum Physics thing. Much the same as when we talk to ourselves, we are giving ourselves a second identity. To use our bodies as an example, each one of our trillions of cells is a seperate life form, unique to our selves. If we take a drop of
our blood and examination it at the cellular level, we are looking at our self. Further, at the sub atomic level, we are all made of the same stuff. YHWH mearly seperated some of his "stuff" from himself and gave it an identity. So the Word was God, and at the same level was unique! :P
This is the way I see it from my fish bowl world! :funnyface:

:fishy:
I agree. We humans are in a fishbowl looking out.
Check out John 17:3 (in Greek of course).
The point of humans living forever is to get to know our eternal father.

justin Wrote:
I would question why, if monogenes simply means unique, without any concept of parentage....



So you think that the definition of monogenes above, "one of a Kind". The person I got this from said that this word isn't without any concept of parentage though, but it also carries the notion of a relationship between parent and child.

The following is a short study I found on the subject by a Doug Kutilek.

http://www.middletownbiblechurch.org/son...nogene.htm

I am interested in being shown where this guy went wrong.

"Begotten of the Father" does not mean He was created or made. You and I were begotten of our parents, but our parents in no way created us just because we were begotten of them. Our life had already existed in our parents before they had begotten us. In fact, we really existed from the time of Adam and Eve even though we were begotten many centuries later. How is that so? Well, did not God finish His work of creation on the seventh day according to Genesis? If that is so then we had to have existed in some form from the time of Adam and Eve since God was no longer in the routine business of creating anything after the seventh day of creation week. In the case of Christ it is completely logical to say that He existed from all eternity in some form in the Father before He was begotten as God. In fact, in John 1:18 Scripture teaches that Christ is the "only begotten God". If you are right, then monogenes would mean something more along the lines of "only generated". To "generate" means to "bring forth" out of pre-existing substance, whereas to "create" means to "bring forth" out of nothing. Just as sunlight is generated from the sun but is not created by the sun, so, too, Christ was generated (begotten) from the Father but was not created by the Father.

Man Hu Wrote:
Throw away silly words, like 'trinity' and it is surprising how close we are in our beliefs.
Jesus is a son, begotten from out of the father. He is the representation of His father and was perfected through suffering into His father's image whilst on earth, hence better than any angel. He is the impress, or stamp of His father.


I agree Vicky. However, I wonder if believe that the Son is "eternally begotten"? If Jesus was "begotten not made", he would have to be Eternally Begotten, that is , Begotten without reference to time.... why?

Because Jesus is not a created son of God (as the Watchtower taught), but a begotten Son of God--in fact, the only begotten Son of God. He never had a beginning, for He was there in the beginning (John 1:1), as some have said in this topic. In His prayer to the Father in the upper room, He spoke of "the glory which I had with you before the world was" (John 17:5).

In the Old Testament prophecy about His coming human birth in Bethlehem (Micah 5:2), we are told that His "goings forth have been from of old, from everlasting." He did not become the only Son by His virgin birth. He was the only begotten Son from eternity, "set up from everlasting" (Proverbs 8:23).


Matt

Mavos Wrote:
It isn't without any concept of parentage...


I was speaking of the recent practice of translators to render monogenes as "the only one" (NET), "the One and Only" (NIV), "the one-of-a-kind" (Message).

Kutilek, who you will later quote, believes that the proper understanding of monogenes is "one that completely excludes any notion of “begetting” or “begotten”".

Mavos Wrote:
Also, many of your quotes use the word begotten, but I am talking about the use of MONOGENES in the Scriptures.


My point was to show how these early Christian writers understood this aspect of the nature of Christ. They understood that Jesus was begotten from the Father and they based this belief on John chapter 1 and other texts, such as Col 1:15 where Jesus is called "the firstborn over all creation".

Mavos Wrote:
I know that it is a very common belief among Trinitarians to believe in “eternal generation of the Son", As you have shown, this belief goes back almost as far as the Bible itself.


I don't believe that the earliest Christians believed in the "eternal generation of the Son" as modern Trinitarians do. I believe, as Kutilek seems to later agree, that the concept of the "eternal generation of the Son" was simply later used to salvage the idea of a co-eternal, co-equal Trinity in light of the Scriptural teaching of a begotten, Son of God.

Doug Kutilek Wrote:
Monogenes is found nine times in the New Testament: Luke 7:12; 8:42; 9:38; John 1:14, 18; 3:16, 18; Hebrews 11:17; I John 4:9.


In each of these Biblical cases the word is used in the context of a parent, the beggeter, and their child, the begotten, which is the same way that John uses it in his speaking about the relationship between the Father and the Son.

Doug Kutilek Wrote:
However, here it is notable that Isaac was not the only son that Abraham had fathered (“begotten”), that is, contrary to the common English version’s translation, Isaac was not Abraham’s “only-begotten son,” in as much as Abraham had an older son named Ishmael, thirteen years Isaac’s senior. On this basis, one suspects that there is something decidedly erroneous in the use, here at least, of “only begotten” as the English translation of monogenes.


I don't think that it is incorrect to translate monogenes as "only begotten" in this case. This would be consistant with the Hebrew text, where in Genesis 22, Isaac is referred to as Abraham's "only son" (yachiyd). Certainly God was aware of the existence of Ishmael and yet he refers to Isaach as Abraham's "only son".


Doug Kutilek Wrote:
The translation of monogenes by “only-begotten” in the KJV and other English versions in six of the nine New Testament occurrences (all except those in Luke) would suggest a presumed etymology from monos, “only” and gennao, “to beget, father, procreate.” This presumed etymology is certainly erroneous.


If this is an erroneous understanding of monogenes, the early Christians, including those who wrote and spoke Greek, are guilty of the same mistake. To me this seems very unlikely.

Doug Kutilek Wrote:
In the Apostolic fathers, Clement of Rome (and later Origen, Cyril and others) employs monogenes to describe the Phoenix, a bird reported to live 500 years--a unique bird, in a class by itself. (Lightfoot, Apostolic Fathers, part I, vol. 2, p. 87.) The usage here is strictly in the literal sense of the word--”unique, one of a kind”--with no thought of endearment or preciousness as commonly found in New Testament and Greek Old Testament usages. At the very least, it reveals with certainty that monogenes has nothing per se to do with “begetting.”


I don't agree with this statement. Clement's discussion of the Phoenix centers on the strange manner in which bird reproduces, being born from its own ashes. He contrasts seed, through which one seed brings forth many plants, to the Phoenix which is the only-begotten of its kind. To say that in this context monogenes has nothing to do with with "beggetting" is incorrect, for it is at the center of Clement's discussion.

Doug Kutilek Wrote:
What then is the best way to translate monogenes into English? “Only-begotten” is clearly unacceptable, because it is based on a false etymology and misunderstanding of the word. Taken literally, the English word suggests derivation, creation, origination of Christ, a view which I believe is false and clearly in contradiction to the teaching of the Bible.


I feel this paragraph highlights the real crux of the matter and Kutilek's theological bias. As far as he is considered, "only-begotten" is an unacceptable translation, because it clashes with the Trinitarian idea that Jesus, as the Son of God, had no origin, derivation, or creation and is "co-eternal" with the Father.

Doug Kutilek Wrote:
Understanding monogenes in its proper sense--one that completely excludes any notion of “begetting” or “begotten”--has strong theological implications for the doctrine of Christ. It renders moot the whole heated theological debate of the third and fourth centuries concerning the so-called “eternal generation of the Son,” a term which leaves me with the uncomfortable feeling that if we accepted such terminology at face value, we were admitting de facto that Christ was a created being and not God. It also makes the Nicene Creed’s affirmation that Christ was “begotten but not made” (gennethenta, ou poiethenta) just a bunch of verbal nonsense.


Again we see Kutilek's Trinitarian theology steering his understanding. In affect, he is saying that the 20th century Biblical Greek scholar knows more than the Greek speaking Christian of the 1st, 2nd, 3rd and 4th centuries. These early Christians believed that Jesus was begotten of God and they got these beliefs from their reading of the Scriptures, including John chapter 1.

The reason that debate came was with the later Alexandrian controversy on the nature of Christ, which was a step toward the development of the later Trinity doctrine. If the Son of God was indeed begotten, that implied that he had a beginning, and if he had a beginning he was not co-equal with the Father. Their solution to this "problem" was not to dispense with the idea that Jesus' was begotten, as Kutilek here desires, but rather to shore up their beliefs with the confusing notion of the “eternal generation of the Son."

Kutilek's desire to strip monogenes of "any notion of “begetting” or “begotten” is a modern-day solution to the centuries' old problem with the Trinity doctrine. As I stated in my original posting, even seminary professors have difficulty rationalizing the Scriptural concept of a begotten Son of God with the Trinity Doctrine's notion of co-eternality.

I find it interesting that proponents of the Trinity doctrine cry foul at the Watchtower's theologically influenced rendering of John 1:1 (perhaps rightly so); but, turn a blind eye to their own equal treatment of John 1:18, which goes beyond translating monogenes as unique or singular; but rather, where "the only-begotten son" becomes the awfully constructed, "God, the One and Only". That, of course, is another subject for debate.

I will agree that "the only-begotten" doesn't properly convey the sense of uniqueness and endearment that the Greek monogenes carries. However, quite often, this is the case where our English equivalents do not give due justice to their Greek counterparts.

If we think scientifically, we know that 'like begets like' - Law of Biogenesis. Therefore, God begets God. Hence the statement by the Nicean Creed - God of God, Light of Light, very God of very God. If God is eternal, omnipotent, omniscient, and omnipresent, then His Son must be eternal, omnipotent, omniscient, and omnipresent. However, Phillippians 2:5-8 tells us that Christ gave up equality (positionally) with God (the Father) when He became a man and dwelt on the earth. Although He was God, of one substance with the Father, He gave up the rights that He possessed as God when He lived on earth. That is why when He was on earth He was fully dependent upon His Father to perform miracles.
I may be oversimplifying this, but to me, all this rhetoric is moot, because we can't literally explain the beginning of the Logos as a "begetting" A literal begotten son has a father and a mother. So however the process by which the Logos came to be, it was not a begetting. "Only begotten" is a failure in translating.

e-magine Wrote:
I may be oversimplifying this, but to me, all this rhetoric is moot, because we can't literally explain the beginning of the Logos as a "begetting" A literal begotten son has a father and a mother. So however the process by which the Logos came to be, it was not a begetting. "Only begotten" is a failure in translating.


I agree.

But from that perspective I would have say that using "Father" and "Son" to describe Almighty God and the Logos is also a failure in translation - not in Greek to English - but rather that God is not literally a father and the Logos is not literally a son. But, the beloved disciple is using human terms to explain a relationship and I'm attempting to see things from that perspective.

EXCACTLY!

Isn't that what that Doug guy is advocating in the end? That monogenes isn't about begetting, as in human terms, but is more reffering to the relationship between father and son. A unique relationship of love and affection. Wold not that aspect be in view and not the aspect of supposed origins?
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