Paradise Cafe Discussions - A Place For Bible Research And Christian Encouragement

Revelation and HAARP

Revelation is thought to have been fulfilled in the past, by some; yet aspects of Revelation seem to indicate a future fulfillment as human technology continues on it's present (harmful) course.

When Revelation 11:18 indicates a ruining of the earth, is this not prophetic of a time when humans literally ruin the earth? Or is this referring to mostly a "ruining of the earth" such as existed prior to the flood of Noah's day/moral degradation? Or both?

If Revelation can /could be taken literally in some ways, though, might this be an example of future developments:...

Revelation 13:11...

"And I saw another wild beast ascending out of the earth, and it had two horns like a lamb, but it began speaking as a dragon. And it exercises all the authority of the first wild beast in its sight. And it makes the earth and those who dwell in it worship the first wild beast, whose death-stroke got healed. And it performs great signs, so that it should even make fire come down out of heaven to the earth in the sight of mankind."

HAARP Boils The Upper Atmosphere

http://www.earthpulse.com/src/subcategor...subcatid=2

a quote:

"The arrogance of the United States government in this is not without precedent. Atmospheric nuclear tests had similar goals. More recently, China and France put their people's money to destructive use in underground nuclear tests. It was recently reported that the US government spent $3 trillion dollars on its nuclear program since its beginnings in the 1940's. What new breakthroughs in life science could have been made with all the money spent on death?

Begich, Manning, Roderick and others believe that democracies need to be founded on openness, rather than the secrecy which surrounds so much military science. Knowledge used in developing revolutionary weapons could be used for healing and helping mankind. Because they are used in new weapons, discoveries are classified and suppressed. When they do appear in the work of other independent scientists, the new ideas are often frustrated or ridiculed, while military research laboratories continue to build their new machines for the killing fields."

Questions?

Comments?

:coffeeread:

gogh

If the general scientific consensus on climate change is correct it does chime with the situation in Noah's day IMHO.
The people in Noah's day paid no heed to Noah, they just continued getting on with their lives; getting married, eating & drinking etc, paying no mind to the pending ecological disaster.

The HARRP article is very intriguing, at the very least it shows that governments pay little or no mind to the environmental implications of their actions. :(

Agape Johnny :heartbeat:

I think it is a valid connection to link "those that are ruining the earth" with the account of the flood.

"The earth was ruined in the sight of God; the earth was filled with violence." - Genesis 6:3

In commenting on Revelation, the Watchtower Society focused on environmental ruin; but, if we look at Genesis, the ruin was said to be through the accumulation violence.

No specific comment on HAARP. Whether or not is just a communications device or a new super-killing machine - the capacity for violence by traditional and known means is self-evident. That mankind will continue to use scientific "progress" to build advanced ways to kill is expected. War is inevitable.

men are becomming faint out of fear...
http://www.rumormillnews.com/cgi-bin/for...ead=125363

http://www.infowars.com/?p=2489#comment-418139

http://www.rense.com/general48/moredead.htm
http://rense.com/general62/list.htm
http://www.surfingtheapocalypse.net/cgi-...ead=206992

http://youtube.com/watch?v=InV0cVH6KZc

signs in the sun (Im sorry if I don't believe their explanations either,the sun has never looked this way my entire life)

http://spaceweather.com/submissions/larg...228864.jpg

http://spaceweather.com/submissions/larg...352263.jpg

http://spaceweather.com/submissions/larg...230890.jpg

http://spaceweather.com/submissions/larg...036242.jpg

http://spaceweather.com/submissions/larg...972082.jpg

I thought I would insert just a tiny piece of information. To the best of my knowledge, HAARP was (is) the first such program of its kind. However, soon after its inception [in the United States, specifically, Alaska], other nations quickly followed suit, so that there are now many similar programs under development by many sovereign states.

To view HAARP and all such similar programs as anything other than components in the race for superior tactical weaponry [weather research, my arse] is to be a bit naive, in my opinion. :whistle:

Edited to add: This post is not in response to any other poster, nor is it a critique of any other post.

In thinking further about this particular subject and in conspiracies in general -

How does such knowledge benefit the Christian today?

I think this is a good question to ask; because I have seen that lines between scriptural discussion and conspiracy theories often converge on this forum and others.

To tell my own story, I spent a good year researching conspiracy after conspiracy, and speaking with members of this forum and others about such things as lasers that give face rashes, chemtrails, mind control, holographic projects, etc. And depending on who you read or speak to it, there is always a different secret villian - the Illuminati, the Masons, the Jewish Bankers, the Vatican, the Jesuits, the Lizard People. At the end the day, rather than encourage or build up, I found it just created fear, paranoia and confusion.

I wonder, can we just be content to conclude, "the whole world is lying in the power of the wicked one", and call it a day?

Because, I wonder, what happens if you do indeed solve the puzzle? What happens if you unraveled the secret conspiracy? What happens if you discovered the secret understanding of past, present and future history?

Will you be better prepared to live the Kingdom of God now and escape the time of trouble to come? Will you be more prepared than the Christian who devoted that same time to reading and speaking with the Word of God?

What if the "fire that is called down from heaven" is in fact a HAARP beam? What could we do about it? What if the fire is just an old-fashioned nuclear bomb? What if it is not a physical weapon at all? Does finding the correct answer make us less inclined to worship the Beast that comes from the Abyss than if we didn't have this knowledge?

Hi justin

Having used the word "conspiracy" so often in your comments; in what way do you consider this topic conspiratorial?

conspiracy definition:

- an evil, unlawful, treacherous, or surreptitious plan formulated in secret by two or more persons; plot.
- a combination of persons for a secret, unlawful, or evil purpose: He joined the conspiracy to overthrow the government.
- Law. an agreement by two or more persons to commit a crime, fraud, or other wrongful act.
- any concurrence in action; combination in bringing about a given result.

The word gets kicked around/misapplied too much, imo.

As a refresher as to how the word "conspiracy" could be appropriately used; the following link is an example of a conspiracy that resulted in terrible loss of life:

Gulf War 1: Incubator Babies Propaganda Leads America To War

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9bdZpSact...re=related

This link is an example only of what I consider a conspiracy. The link does not relate to the topic of HAARP technology.


I see no relation to this topic and conspiracy. A topic of interest,imo.... under the appropriate "Science and Archeolgy" heading. If I am seeing this incorrectly, then this topic should be deleted or moved to the controversy section, imo.....

Christian love and appreciation,

Learning to be cautious,

gogh

:coffeeread:

Hi all,
I guess man is going to experiment if there are potential 'benefits' or advantages. Primarily, these experiments seem be designed for military advantage but advances can come in technology eventually for human kind, as they did with the 'space race'.

Does it appear the scientists have some idea they may be able to 'neut' the electronics zapping magnetic pulse of a nuclear explosion?

In the process of doing such unpredictable testing they could make a gi-normous foul up. I heard the physicists weren't sure when they exploded the first nuclear weapons that it would not cause a consequential chain reaction in other matter.

For people of faith, is it not true our concerns are short term?..However, the prospect of man running the 'show' for more than a hundred years would be fear inspiring indeed.

When the glaciers in the Himalayas melt, as they apparently will in the next 100 years, 100's of millions will fail to get agriculture based an the Far East's major rivers.
The prospects for the Earth, without a trust in God's Son, must be daunting indeed.
Derek

Hi Derek

Re: "I heard the physicists weren't sure when they exploded the first nuclear weapons that it would not cause a consequential chain reaction in other matter."

It seems what is in question now. is the effect of nuclear devises can have in relation to causing earthquakes. A question that is being asked.

Nuclear Explosion Suspected at Epicenter of the Sichuan Earthquake

http://en.epochtimes.com/news/8-6-3/71353.html


Re: "When the glaciers in the Himalayas melt, as they apparently will in the next 100 years,"

Thank you for incorporating the word "apparently"...grin.

(You are not supporting the notion that humans contribute significantly to what has been dubbed "global warming"...are you....grin) (I'll say it for you...."don't get me started"...is that what you will say...grin)

As one would not want to speculate too much, would one...grin.

Christian love,

gogh

:bubblegum:

Hi brother gogh,
I do support the belief that humans releasing greenhouse gasses into the atmosphere is a component, and a large one, of present climate change.

The problem is that no one really knows what will actually happen.
Re:How the Earth will respond to the human component of change. Climate scientists can only say what is the probable scenario.

Christian love
Derek

oops...

Hi Derek

This is an informative documentary, imo.

CBC - Global Warming Doomsday Called Off -

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=...5&hl=en-GB

Christian love and appreciation,

gogh

Hi gogh,
I looked at the documentary..it was very well done.
I found it interesting but very selective. There were a few over simplifications to present their case.
WCL
Derek

Ps.So it's ok I can go out and buy a Chelsea tractor! :)

Both.

I'm reminded of Rachael Carson's Silent Spring, where she indicated that mankind had begun to "foul" it's nest, the Earth.

When a species "fouls it's nest"; it signals the extinction of that species.

Carson wrote her book in 1962, and 'it ain't gettin any better' planetary nest-wise.

Foul is Foul, enviromentally, morally, etc...

We do such good work; I see God hiring us to run the next planet that comes available. :shocked: :shocked: :shocked:

God was just kidding when He said that thing in Jeremiah 10 about man not being able to direct his step.

Yeah...Right...NOT!!!

"Two Lepta"

Love to All,
John

Hi brother Gogh,

I had a look at the Haarp site and I think your fears regarding the effects of HAARP are probably unfounded.

Quote technical details:
The HAARP Ionospheric Research facility will be a major Arctic facility for conducting upper atmospheric research. The facility will consist of two essential parts:

1. A high power transmitter and antenna array operating in the High Frequency (HF) range. The transmitter is capable of delivering up to 3.6 million Watts to an antenna system consisting of 180 crossed dipole antennas arranged as a rectangular, planar array.

2. A complete and extensive set of scientific instruments for observation of both the background auroral ionosphere and of the effects produced during active research using the transmitter system. Output from these instruments is readily available world-wide in near real time over the internet.

During active ionospheric research, the signal generated by the transmitter system is delivered to the antenna array, transmitted in an upward direction, and is partially absorbed, at an altitude between 100 to 350 km (depending on operating frequency), in a small volume a few hundred meters thick and a few tens of kilometers in diameter over the site. The intensity of the HF signal in the ionosphere is less than 3 microwatts per cm2, tens of thousands of times less than the Sun's natural electromagnetic radiation reaching the earth and hundreds of times less than even the normal random variations in intensity of the Sun's natural ultraviolet (UV) energy which creates the ionosphere. The small effects that are produced, however, can be observed with the sensitive scientific instruments installed at the HAARP facility and these observations can provide new information about the dynamics of plasmas and new insight into the processes of solar-terrestrial interactions.

The transmitter delivers 3.6 megawatts of radio frequency in the short wave band.

Short wave transmitters have been delivering high powers of RF in the 3-30Mhz band for overseas broadcasting via ionospheric propagation for decades. The aerials give gain to increase the effective radiated power.

It is in the vicinity of the aerials (you call them antenna) and transmitters I would take more care! I hear such transmitters have lit up fluorescent lamps unconnected to electrical circuits! :)
Hazard levels of field strength are attenuated to acceptable very quickly with distance from the source.
atb
Derek