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Hi Derek

Re: "macro-evolution"

Do you define this term as describing change from one species to another species; or, adaptation within a species (via cross pollination/breeding etc.), resulting in different breeds/types within a species?

Christian love,

gogh

Derek Wrote:
How do you believe divinely ordained macro-evolution took place?


ooops I used the wrong word... I meant microevolution LOL

Hi brother gogh,
Now we get bogged down in definitions:
I don't like some of these terms, they make it appear there are sudden divisions. In reality, at times, such division do not exist and its hard to draw lines.

To change from one group of animals to another: I would certainly term macro-evolution.... say from a goose to a swan for example!

Variations within a particularly 'family', if such a concept really exists, is perhaps micro-evolution. Your Baldpate and our Eurasian Wigeon arose from a common ancestor by, perhaps, micro evolution.

Others will have different definitions of these words.
WCL
Derek



gogh Wrote:
Hi Derek

Re: "macro-evolution"

Do you define this term as describing change from one species to another species; or, adaptation within a species (via cross pollination/breeding etc.), resulting in different breeds/types within a species?

Christian love,

gogh

Hi Mars.
You brought up some interesting points regarding the growing earth idea that before the flood in noah's day the shallow seas were on the continental sections of the earth but when the flood waters retreated they wedged their way between the continental sections and pushed them apart making the ocean beds.

HumbleGod Wrote:
http://mysiddhi.freehostia.com/spiritual/earthmap1.JPG


This picture shows the mapping of both sides of the earth with color indication of the dating of the core samples of the land (granite continental plates) and sea floor (basalt level); Newest 10 million or so is RED, and as we go back in time orange, yellow, green, blue, with the oldest dating of the sea floor being 70 million years old. First thing I should point out is that the granite continental plates are measured to be 2 billion years old; That's over 28 times older than the oldest sections of the sea floor (basalt level)!

Where do fish fossils come from? From the land! In fact the basalt level never existed when the dinosaurs such as the T. Rex were around!

The next thing I will point out is that the granite continental plates fit together completely on a much smaller earth;

http://mysiddhi.freehostia.com/spiritual/earthmap2.JPG

The two earth maps no longer show up when I click on them, they just show the generic host pages. Is it possible for you to find another copy of those images?

HumbleGod Wrote:
How could the earth grow so much larger? From hydration, buoyancy, and osmosis.... from tons of pure water that was in the thermosphere falling to the earth! When material hydrates it expands; Liquid water is vastly heavier than gaseous water (lightest of all gases) and many material things are lighter than liquid water... thus liquid water sinks and the material objects 'float'; And place material in pure water and the osmotic pressure will force the water into the material and the material into the water. Thus the earth grew!!

How can we prove that there was tons of gaseous water in the thermosphere? Well insects breath through absorption of their skin. If there was tons of gaseous water in the thermosphere the atmospheric pressure would be quite higher. There are fossils of GIANT insects that use to roam the earth. But today our atmospheric pressure is too low to sustain the existence of giant insects because lower pressure means lower absorptive diffusion through the skin (giant fauna and giant dinosaurs would also experience a similar problem with breathing)! Also giant dragon flies and flying animals such as pterodactyls (given the aerodynamics of their wings) can not fly in our atmospheric pressure... the higher the pressure the easier it is for winged flight!

On a similar note but with respects to gravitation... a smaller earth with tons of water in the heavens would have a lower gravitational density. There are many fossils of GIANT dinosaurs that could not have even walked in our current gravity!

So, not only is it a necessity that there was significant gaseous water in the thermosphere to explain how earth grew and how giant insects could breath or how giant dragon flies and teradactals flew (because of the higher pressure), and even how giant dinosaurs could even walk (because of lower gravity)... it is also quite probable such existed there, as the thermosphere is thousands of degrees and could maintain the water in the gaseous state.

I did a google search for ( fossils "giant insects" ) and it seems that giant insects did exist.
Here's a question for you were the creatures we call dinosaurs originally called dragons?

HumbleGod Wrote:
A note to be added here is that if there were such a large amount of gaseous water in the thermosphere the radiation intensity reaching the earth (in certain spectra) would be significantly reduced (possibly even types of radiation we are not aware of). Thus dating methods while preserving relative date relations are significantly off if they assume constant radiation intensity over time!

Also life span is correlated with radiation intensity (via destruction of our telomeres). There is also a telomere sequence directly in the center of one of our chromosomes (we are the only animal with this).

Thus man died before the flood from run away bodily fermentation because God would not let man eat of the fruit of the tree of life (coconut). But today man dies because his telomeres are being destroyed and possibly because the radiation is interfering with the reading of the telomere sequence in the center of one of our chromosomes; which potentially could be used as a template to regenerate all our telomeres at the end of our chromosomes (according to our original design).

The link below on Hyperbaric Oxygenation Therapy may help with your research.
http://www.hyperbaric-care.com/

HumbleGod Wrote:
The only way to fix the earth back to the original design is to 'destroy' it with fire... in other words boil that water out of the earth and put it back into the thermosphere. I am not going to explain how this will happen.... I just wanted to spark your interest... that what God says he will due is actually what God needs to do to fix the earth.

HumbleGod Wrote:
(2 Peter 3:10-13) . . .Yet Jehovah’s day will come as a thief, in which the heavens will pass away with a hissing noise, but the elements being intensely hot will be dissolved, and earth and the works in it will be discovered... through which [the] heavens being on fire will be dissolved and [the] elements being intensely hot will melt! But there are new heavens and a new earth that we are awaiting according to his promise, and in these righteousness is to dwell.


Might the scripture below be the one you were looking for?

CLV Re 21:1 Wrote:
And I perceived a new heaven and a new earth, for the former heaven and the former earth pass away, and the sea is no more.

There's a number of possibilities in Revelation to look at.

Take care Mars.

Hi thomasstuart,

I must point out that the scripture you are referring to deals with God and his activity and his activity concerning humans as regards his power, justice and ability to fulfill his promises.

Pe 3:4 and saying: "Where is this promised presence of his? Why, from the day our forefathers fell asleep [in death], all things are continuing exactly as from creation's beginning."
2Pe 3:5 For, according to their wish, this fact escapes their notice, that there were heavens from of old and an earth standing compactly out of water and in the midst of water by the word of God;
2Pe 3:6 and by those [means] the world of that time suffered destruction when it was deluged with water.
2Pe 3:7 But by the same word the heavens and the earth that are now are stored up for fire and are being reserved to the day of judgment and of destruction of the ungodly men.
2Pe 3:8 However, let this one fact not be escaping YOUR notice, beloved ones, that one day is with Jehovah as a thousand years and a thousand years as one day.
2Pe 3:9 Jehovah is not slow respecting his promise, as some people consider slowness, but he is patient with YOU because he does not desire any to be destroyed but desires all to attain to repentance.

The point of this scripture is not that the earth isn't old, hence the fact that escapes their notice, but that some first century Christians were evidently tiring out, wondering when on earth Gods day would arrive and the second coming of Christ along with their reward. The advice is that God sometimes takes along time to fulfill his promises but that doesnt mean he wont, and so giving up in trying to practice being like Jesus is not an option because Jesus will come as a thief in the night. The point is not to give up, because some early Christians had the idea the apostle John would not die until Jesus` return. Now time was passing by and some were getting worried and tired and some were evidently returning to pagan practices and religion.

Joh 21:23 Then this saying went out among the brothers that this disciple would not die. Yet Jesus did not say to him that he would not die, but, "If I will that he remain till I come, what is that to you?"

To apply the scripture as a condemnation or warning about evolution is going beyond what is written. The whole point is that God view of time is not the same as ours.

2Pe 3:8 However, let this one fact not be escaping YOUR notice, beloved ones, that one day is with Jehovah as a thousand years and a thousand years as one day.

Notice that this verse not only says that a thousand years is as one day to God, but also that one day is as a thousand years. The context indicates that many literal 24 hours days were passing by and people were getting worried, but that what seems a long time to us is not to God, hence he is not slow as some consider slowness. If the Genesis days were literal 24 hour periods it destroyed the whole point of Peters words and his appealing to Genesis. In affect Peter is telling us that Genesis is certainly not talking about literal 24 hours days at all.

This not only means that Christians who believe in evolution are acceptable in Gods sight if they are not tiring out serving the Lord, but also that Genesis certainly can allow for belief in evolution because God view of time is not the same as ours which lends credibility to the idea that Genesis was intended to be semi metaphorical and symbolic. Of course some do believe that snakes can walk, talk and eat only dust. Mind you who cares if they are loving and don`t turn the gospel of Jesus into philosophy where ones brain has to be switched off in order to be ok to God. We wouldn't want the kingdom to be open only to the literalistic. We need the symbolic as well, otherwise Revelation is a massive problem. God communicates on many levels. Judge not by doctrine but by the heart.
Hi,
Has anyone got any opinion about the Ark coming to rest on Ararat and then c.three months after this the mountain tops being uncovered?
3 The water receded steadily from the earth. At the end of the hundred and fifty days the water had gone down, 4 and on the seventeenth day of the seventh month the ark came to rest on the mountains of Ararat. 5 The waters continued to recede until the tenth month, and on the first day of the tenth month the tops of the mountains became visible.

Seems ambiguous and could put another complexion on the flood covering all mountain tops earthwide.
Derek
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