Are you sure you pushed the send button? Because my thingy doesn't say I have mail and I did check.
You can email me if you wish; subtlevirtue@gmail.com
OK, this old man will PM you again.
OK, check your PM thingy again.
You are dead wrong here son.
While the fruits of deep meditation reap great benefits, in the "hands" of untutored/unprepared persons, ..., it can cause further damage to such an individual.
...
...That is why the ... Hagelin, Hicks, and the other profiteers teach is fatally flawed from the moment they open their mouths.
They can provide no surety what they have taught has not harmed anyone.
You claim that super consciousness can cause damage to an individual. Do you have any evidence to support such a claim?
Can you point to an example of an individual that has hurt themselves from doing meditation?
Lets see if we can deal with the science;
Lets talk about brain wave coherence... where the entire brain entrains the same coherent frequency. The brain does this during meditation. The result is that the brain creates holistic synaptic connections and enlivens the entire brain to function as a unified whole.
Violent behavior and hurtful thought patterns have a correlation with functional holes (regions where synapses are not firing) in the pre-frontal cortex as verified by encephalograms of prison inmates.
When prison inmates practice meditation which produces brain wave coherence those functional holes in the pre-frontal cortex are eliminated... thus the very act of meditation effects a person so as to produce a holistic and more fully functioning brain... a peaceful person!
Showing others a practice that can reduce violent behavior and hurtful thought patterns in the world should only produce good results... right?
So, while you claim that damage can occur from meditation I am not aware of any actual evidence to suggest such a thing.
And given the actual nature of super consciousness and it's effect on the brain... I seriously doubt there is any possibility there can be damage produced from it.
Most if not all of the damage, violence, and hurtfulness in this world is caused from being stuck in thoughts and feelings... so transcending thoughts and feelings are on every level most apt to cure the world in every way!
"Believe nothing, no matter where you read it, or who said it, no matter if I have said it, unless it agrees with your own reason and your own common sense." - Siddhartha Gautama
You claim that super consciousness can cause damage to an individual. Do you have any evidence to support such a claim?
I see you are indulging in the misquoting technique.
So instead of just a PM, you impell me to correct your error here.
I did not say "super conciousness" could cause damage.
Read my words again.
I said, "While the fruits of deep meditation reap great benefits, in the "hands" of untutored/unprepared persons,..., it can cause further damage to such an individual."
If you keep equating meditation with super consciousness, it becomes clear you have never experienced the bliss of the super conscious state.
Thousands of years of Yogic experimentation and observation taught the Rishis that some people were prone to hallucination and other mental disturbances while attempting meditation.
Ergo, again I repeat, the necessity of the Teacher/Student relationship.
The Teacher is there to provide proper guidance and to smooth any mental "bumps" the student may encounter during meditation.
Imagine the damage an unprepared/untutored person could suffer, especially if such a person already suffers from certain mental disturbances.
The Teacher acts as the "training wheels", until the student meditator is able to navigate the field of the mind smoothly.
My belief is the with proper (personal) guidance, meditation could cure most ills.
The key is that proper guidance until the aspirant becomes competent.
So please, stop misquoting me.
Do you really need to make the "killer" reposte so badly.
Let's just exchange ideas.
If we agree, Great! If we don't, Great!
"Two Lepta"
Love to All,
John
In my mind you see I have equated them.
If you notice the context of our discussion...
You are dead wrong here son.
While the fruits of deep meditation reap great benefits, in the "hands" of untutored/unprepared persons, ..., it can cause further damage to such an individual.
I was speaking about super consciousness then you directly went in on about fruits of meditation.... which seems according to context and semantics to equal super consciousness. This is why I responded to you as if you were talking about super consciousness.
Hagelin's path does not openly teach how to do meditation. And in fact the students are watched and closely guided...
The thing is I am not his student... and I just do meditation on my own in my own way as I understand it... not from anyones direction or guidance.
The only issue that you could successfully raise against Hagelin is that his path asks for money for the training (something I would never pay for).
From the perspective of what is actually happening in this world and who is producing the greatest positive results (as I see them)... John Hagelin tops my list. John's path is actually lowing the crime rate in the world, and decreasing fighting and deaths in wars, and increasing the intelligence and peacefulness of thousands of people, ... What is your path doing?
Suppose for a second that I actually knew about your secret path and understood that not John but you and your masters produce the greatest results in this world.
Then as in the case of John I would not be easily agreeable to let anyone down talk you or your masters... unless they could actually explain themselves.
I am sure this is why Hagelin's path uses the teacher/student relationship that you are advocating. Hagelin openly explaining the science of the brain and the effects of super consciousness obviously does not train someone how to do it. Thus you were dissing Hagelin on this point without even knowing his path.
I do not like secrecy... and am loath to trust it.
Given the nature of secrecy I suspect that you and your masters never gather in thousands to create God Consciousness in this world... John's path does exactly that!
Individual mediators such as yourself while individually may be powerful you and all your masters are nothing compared to the power of a gathered group of a few thousand mediators for actually changing the world for the better.
The power is the SQUARE of the sum of mediators!
Which means individual spread out mediators (sum) can never be more powerful than a gathered group (sum squared).
Thus, it is impossible that you and all your masters are more powerful than John's path in creating goodness in this world. That is how I see it... as I cannot see invisible things such as your path.
For anyone to down talk John is unfathomable...
It is also unnecessary for you to do... I am willing to learn from anyone... I am not even a member of John's path... I just see no one more worthy to look up to in this world.
So explain yourself if you want to dis Hagelin... or just refrain from doing so.
More likely it will release you from demon possession.
Demons can only possess you through your thoughts and feelings.
By learning to quite your thoughts and feelings you can hear all of them... in other words you awareness of subtle thoughts and feelings increases.
So, it's not that you become possessed... it's more that you will realize you already were possessed.
I personally believe that all evil thoughts and feelings are demonic. By increasing your awareness you are able to sense when that kind of energy is inside of you.
Nothing can possess the pure awareness inside of you.
Also, you can incorporate virtuous thoughts and feelings around your meditation... this attracts angelic beings of protection and guidance...
Sounds like your fear came straight out of a Watchtower...
On the contrary, here are some thoughts concerning the appropriateness of meditation straight out of the Bible.
Ps. 19:14 -
"Let the words of my mouth and the meditation of my heart be acceptable in thy sight, O Lord..."
Ps. 46:10 -
"Be still (one of the goals of meditation), and know that I am God." (italics mine)
Ps. 85:8 -
"I commune with my heart in the night; I meditate and search my spirit."
Ps. 104:34 -
"May my meditation be pleasing to him, for I rejoice in the Lord."
Ps. 145:5 -
"On the glorious spledor of thy majesty, and on thy wondrous works, I will meditate."
There is a great difference in meditation and contemplation, contrary to what some believe in Watchtower explanations.
A book that will shed light on the subject is Meditation in Christianity, ISBN 0-89389-085-5
However, in deference to your fears, justin, jonah134 and likely others, Humble God and I are in the process of moving our conversation to a private venue.
That is what I wanted from the beginning of my entering this conversation, for I realize some would not be comfortable with such topics.
"Two Lepta"
Love to All,
John
Pretty much any topic I am bound to discuss is going to be uncomfortable for some people. Exercising a muscle that is rarely used tends to feel uncomfortable... including the brain.
So while me and John's discussions may be moved to a private venue...
that does not mean that you unfortunate souls that are terrorized by my topics will be free of them LOL