05-09-2008, 05:23 AM
Hello everyone! It has been a long time. I have been away on vacation. Nice to be back.
Wibble posted here on Spiritual descendants of Abraham
It was obvious that Jewry, as a people and as a nation, was not the Israel described in Revelation 7:4-8 or other Bible prophecies related to the Lord’s day. Following tradition, the Jews continued to avoid using the divine name. (Matthew 15:1-3, 7-9) In discussing Jeremiah 31:31-34, the book Jehovah, published by the Watch Tower Society in 1934, stated conclusively: “The new covenant has nothing to do with the natural descendants of Israel and with mankind in general, but . . . is limited to spiritual Israel.” The Bible’s restoration prophecies relate neither to the natural Jews nor to political Israel, which is a member of the United Nations and a part of the world that Jesus spoke of at John 14:19, 30 and 18:36.
Wibble>>gus Wrote:
LOL...that settles it then: if the watchtower says the Jews are out...the Jews are out.
The oracle has spoken.
Wibble wrote: Pretty much yes.
gus Wrote:
The oracle has spoken.
Wibble>Hardly. They base their opinion upon Bible research with the guidance of holy spirit. It is Jehovah that has spoken. Many times in the Greek scriptures he explains it. But Paul often says things hard to understand. It is quite clear that fleshly Jews have no better nor worse standing before Jehovah than any other who has not turned to calling upon His name.
Calling upon the name of the "One Who Is Not To Be Named" does not cut it
Disciple >.> The bible tells us in the Greek scriptures to call on the only name under heaven that can save us, Jesus Christ. Wibble Jesus taught his followers to address God as 'Father'. The WT has been misleading people from its beginning. Directing the importants of the name of Jesus to the back ground. Placing themselves as the gate of salvation. Placing themselves as God's 'channel of communication, not the holy Spirit.. "Stay close to us if you want salvation" they preach. Always recommending them selves. Jesus is just a by word to them.
The blind leading the blind. The WT being at the head of the pack. We all got the WT jest there, (above) how Israel has been and still is out of relationship with God ....'because they have not,.. 'how did the WT phrase it?'.....
"It is quite clear that fleshly Jews have no better nor worse standing before Jehovah than any other who has not turned to calling upon His name"
Disciple: The very reason the Jewish nation has not caught on is because "they too" recommend their people to call on the name of Yahweh, not Jesus Christ. They can call on God day and night and He will not answer those who have not received His Son, (John 1:12). Shame on you and shame on the deceitful teachings of the WT.
Disciple: you had the nerve to preach how bad the U.N. is. Because the faithless WT had preached how terrible it is for so many years. Do you actually think that since the internet has come about they would be able to still get away with being two faced and not be found out to being 'a member 'of'' the U.N?" The WT has always been a charlatan and a fraud. This was just one more of their hypacracies.
Either you are way behind the times or just as much a liar as they are! We would like to know 'which is it,' so would you please get back with us on this. 'We would really like to know.'....Read-um and weep......(just cut and paste)
United Nations and the Watchtower Bible and Tract Society
Wibble>>I have done very much deep personal study. I am convinced that everything Jehovah's Witnesses teach is from Bible study and understanding. I base this opinion on my own research. Proving it to be true is a long term option. The Bible is a large Book and their are many, many theological points to debate/consider. But I believe it can be proved to anyone with an open mind and a desire to really know what the Bible is teaching.
Disciple>>
Wibble>> The problem is that many people actually want to prove Jehovah's Witness wrong. So they do not come with an open mind.
Disciple:'Open mind?' What do you call this teaching?...
"Eventually, before the thousand years of his healing reign are over, uplift to human perfection will be imparted to the obedient, God-fearing 'great crowd'. Now they will be able to stand before the God of holiness on the basis of their own righteousness."
(Life Everlasting - in Freedom of the sons of God, p. 392)
disciple>>Do you call yourself 'open minded' by believing that?
Each believer is at peace with God.... now, 'today!' Today Wibble' each stands before God, not on 'our' righteousness, but we stand before God justified as righteous on the righteousness of what Jesus has done for us! We are the righteousness of God ...."in Christ." God sees us as righteous in the blood of the Lamb. Each believer not just 144000, (Romans 5:9). Our own righteousness are like the bible says. They are like dirty rags. You are justified as righteous not by how many doors you knock on, (titus 3:5) but because of what Jesus has 'already' done. You might give him partal credit for your salvation even if the WT doesn't like.
I believe that any doing so will learn that Jehovah's Witnesses truly have explained the Bible as it was intended to be understood.
Disciple>> Have you ever read this ?" please explain this dogma to us.
The excuses the Watchtower kept giving the majority of Jehovah Witnesses for abstaining from partaking of the Lord’s Table was to convince them they were not justified!.....
“The Jonadabs are not even justified, because the receiving of life everlasting depends upon their obedience within God’s organization and faithfully abiding there until the wrath of God is passed at Armageddon.” WT April 1, 1938 p. 104
The word “Jonadabs,” was at that time given to the ‘average’ JW within the organization who were told that they could not partake of the Lord’s Supper because they were not yet justified as righteous in the eyes of God.What does Romans 5:9, Romans 3:19-"22"-34 have to say about why each in the congregation is justified?
Wibble:>> (Joel 2:32)
32 And it must occur that everyone who calls on the name of Jehovah will get away safe; for in Mount Zion and in Jerusalem there will prove to be the escaped ones, just as Jehovah has said, and in among the survivors, whom Jehovah is calling.
Disciple>> In the New Testament, (better known as the 'New Covenant,') no one will be heard regardless of what they call Him unless they have surrendered to His Son Jesus Christ. You have been programed to leave out Jesus Christ.
Thats the same mentality you have been programmed with at our door steps. You tell us our faith will not save us with out you and your false prophets being involved.' Shame on you. Jesus Christ is the door we have entered. you on the other hand are to afraid to leave your masters. "Where can you go?"
He doesn't answer any ones prayer until they surrender and call on the name of Jesus Christ to save them. To be their savor. Not till their knees bend to Jesus Christ will the Father hear their prayers.
The name Jehovah is not mentioned in 'any' verse, in the old testament. nor is it mentioned in any Greek passage. So get over it.You are like a student who thinks he knows more about the subject that the teacher.
At what verse did Jesus ever tell anyone to address the Father as "Jehovah?" No one doubts the Name of Jesus in the Greek is spelled 'Jesus in English but we can't say the same with the man made name Jehovah.
You have been coned into thinking one must use the Name Jehovah before our Father will except us. Shame on you and shame on your deceitful teachers who are no more than blind guides. False prophets whom God will deal with in His own due time. Jesus strictly told you how to address your heavenly Father. Tell me, 'How often did you call your dad by 'his' first name?' When you asked to borrow the car, by what name did you address him?...'Wake up!
If Jesus gave this on a test, would you say you ..'blew this one?' You are justified to call Him 'Father. You are not a slave. You are a son of God. Tell me, what slave in the bible ever called his Master 'Father?
WIBBLE>>Names are very important as they describe the whole person. And it is what you are as a whole person (you as a soul) that will determine whether or not your 'name' remains in the book of life. Or, if you prefer, it will determine weather or not you will remain alive.
disciple>>WHAT WT gibberish is that? What twisted scripture did you pull that from in your corrupted NWT? What are you trying to say there?
You and your WT blind guides try to instill fear and intimidate innocent minds into addressing our heavenly Father by a name not even used in the Greek. Sure the name Jehovah has been around the longest but it is still not proven to be accurate. Yahweh is more accurate. But regardless Jesus was silent on the usage of any first name bases. Christians are no longer slaves. Jesus has freed us, (Gal. 5:1).
He told us to call on Him as "abbah ," 'Father.'
Christians are silent when the bible is silent and we speak when the bible speaks, and Jesus never used a name when addressing Him. He said ,'I will make your name known." ...... Everyone there knew what the name of God was back then! So the way he meant that phrase was he would make His will , His principles and teachings known through the gospel of our salvation.
Again, when ever you asked your dad to use the car, did you call him "Abbah," ('Dad,' "Daddy") or by his first name?
Disciple
Wibble posted here on Spiritual descendants of Abraham
It was obvious that Jewry, as a people and as a nation, was not the Israel described in Revelation 7:4-8 or other Bible prophecies related to the Lord’s day. Following tradition, the Jews continued to avoid using the divine name. (Matthew 15:1-3, 7-9) In discussing Jeremiah 31:31-34, the book Jehovah, published by the Watch Tower Society in 1934, stated conclusively: “The new covenant has nothing to do with the natural descendants of Israel and with mankind in general, but . . . is limited to spiritual Israel.” The Bible’s restoration prophecies relate neither to the natural Jews nor to political Israel, which is a member of the United Nations and a part of the world that Jesus spoke of at John 14:19, 30 and 18:36.
Wibble>>gus Wrote:
LOL...that settles it then: if the watchtower says the Jews are out...the Jews are out.
The oracle has spoken.
Wibble wrote: Pretty much yes.
gus Wrote:
The oracle has spoken.
Wibble>Hardly. They base their opinion upon Bible research with the guidance of holy spirit. It is Jehovah that has spoken. Many times in the Greek scriptures he explains it. But Paul often says things hard to understand. It is quite clear that fleshly Jews have no better nor worse standing before Jehovah than any other who has not turned to calling upon His name.
Calling upon the name of the "One Who Is Not To Be Named" does not cut it
Disciple >.> The bible tells us in the Greek scriptures to call on the only name under heaven that can save us, Jesus Christ. Wibble Jesus taught his followers to address God as 'Father'. The WT has been misleading people from its beginning. Directing the importants of the name of Jesus to the back ground. Placing themselves as the gate of salvation. Placing themselves as God's 'channel of communication, not the holy Spirit.. "Stay close to us if you want salvation" they preach. Always recommending them selves. Jesus is just a by word to them.
The blind leading the blind. The WT being at the head of the pack. We all got the WT jest there, (above) how Israel has been and still is out of relationship with God ....'because they have not,.. 'how did the WT phrase it?'.....
"It is quite clear that fleshly Jews have no better nor worse standing before Jehovah than any other who has not turned to calling upon His name"
Disciple: The very reason the Jewish nation has not caught on is because "they too" recommend their people to call on the name of Yahweh, not Jesus Christ. They can call on God day and night and He will not answer those who have not received His Son, (John 1:12). Shame on you and shame on the deceitful teachings of the WT.
Disciple: you had the nerve to preach how bad the U.N. is. Because the faithless WT had preached how terrible it is for so many years. Do you actually think that since the internet has come about they would be able to still get away with being two faced and not be found out to being 'a member 'of'' the U.N?" The WT has always been a charlatan and a fraud. This was just one more of their hypacracies.
Either you are way behind the times or just as much a liar as they are! We would like to know 'which is it,' so would you please get back with us on this. 'We would really like to know.'....Read-um and weep......(just cut and paste)
United Nations and the Watchtower Bible and Tract Society
Wibble>>I have done very much deep personal study. I am convinced that everything Jehovah's Witnesses teach is from Bible study and understanding. I base this opinion on my own research. Proving it to be true is a long term option. The Bible is a large Book and their are many, many theological points to debate/consider. But I believe it can be proved to anyone with an open mind and a desire to really know what the Bible is teaching.
Disciple>>
Wibble>> The problem is that many people actually want to prove Jehovah's Witness wrong. So they do not come with an open mind.
Disciple:'Open mind?' What do you call this teaching?...
"Eventually, before the thousand years of his healing reign are over, uplift to human perfection will be imparted to the obedient, God-fearing 'great crowd'. Now they will be able to stand before the God of holiness on the basis of their own righteousness."
(Life Everlasting - in Freedom of the sons of God, p. 392)
disciple>>Do you call yourself 'open minded' by believing that?
Each believer is at peace with God.... now, 'today!' Today Wibble' each stands before God, not on 'our' righteousness, but we stand before God justified as righteous on the righteousness of what Jesus has done for us! We are the righteousness of God ...."in Christ." God sees us as righteous in the blood of the Lamb. Each believer not just 144000, (Romans 5:9). Our own righteousness are like the bible says. They are like dirty rags. You are justified as righteous not by how many doors you knock on, (titus 3:5) but because of what Jesus has 'already' done. You might give him partal credit for your salvation even if the WT doesn't like.
I believe that any doing so will learn that Jehovah's Witnesses truly have explained the Bible as it was intended to be understood.
Disciple>> Have you ever read this ?" please explain this dogma to us.
The excuses the Watchtower kept giving the majority of Jehovah Witnesses for abstaining from partaking of the Lord’s Table was to convince them they were not justified!.....
“The Jonadabs are not even justified, because the receiving of life everlasting depends upon their obedience within God’s organization and faithfully abiding there until the wrath of God is passed at Armageddon.” WT April 1, 1938 p. 104
The word “Jonadabs,” was at that time given to the ‘average’ JW within the organization who were told that they could not partake of the Lord’s Supper because they were not yet justified as righteous in the eyes of God.What does Romans 5:9, Romans 3:19-"22"-34 have to say about why each in the congregation is justified?
Wibble:>> (Joel 2:32)
32 And it must occur that everyone who calls on the name of Jehovah will get away safe; for in Mount Zion and in Jerusalem there will prove to be the escaped ones, just as Jehovah has said, and in among the survivors, whom Jehovah is calling.
Disciple>> In the New Testament, (better known as the 'New Covenant,') no one will be heard regardless of what they call Him unless they have surrendered to His Son Jesus Christ. You have been programed to leave out Jesus Christ.
Thats the same mentality you have been programmed with at our door steps. You tell us our faith will not save us with out you and your false prophets being involved.' Shame on you. Jesus Christ is the door we have entered. you on the other hand are to afraid to leave your masters. "Where can you go?"
He doesn't answer any ones prayer until they surrender and call on the name of Jesus Christ to save them. To be their savor. Not till their knees bend to Jesus Christ will the Father hear their prayers.
The name Jehovah is not mentioned in 'any' verse, in the old testament. nor is it mentioned in any Greek passage. So get over it.You are like a student who thinks he knows more about the subject that the teacher.
At what verse did Jesus ever tell anyone to address the Father as "Jehovah?" No one doubts the Name of Jesus in the Greek is spelled 'Jesus in English but we can't say the same with the man made name Jehovah.
You have been coned into thinking one must use the Name Jehovah before our Father will except us. Shame on you and shame on your deceitful teachers who are no more than blind guides. False prophets whom God will deal with in His own due time. Jesus strictly told you how to address your heavenly Father. Tell me, 'How often did you call your dad by 'his' first name?' When you asked to borrow the car, by what name did you address him?...'Wake up!
If Jesus gave this on a test, would you say you ..'blew this one?' You are justified to call Him 'Father. You are not a slave. You are a son of God. Tell me, what slave in the bible ever called his Master 'Father?
WIBBLE>>Names are very important as they describe the whole person. And it is what you are as a whole person (you as a soul) that will determine whether or not your 'name' remains in the book of life. Or, if you prefer, it will determine weather or not you will remain alive.
disciple>>WHAT WT gibberish is that? What twisted scripture did you pull that from in your corrupted NWT? What are you trying to say there?
You and your WT blind guides try to instill fear and intimidate innocent minds into addressing our heavenly Father by a name not even used in the Greek. Sure the name Jehovah has been around the longest but it is still not proven to be accurate. Yahweh is more accurate. But regardless Jesus was silent on the usage of any first name bases. Christians are no longer slaves. Jesus has freed us, (Gal. 5:1).
He told us to call on Him as "abbah ," 'Father.'
Christians are silent when the bible is silent and we speak when the bible speaks, and Jesus never used a name when addressing Him. He said ,'I will make your name known." ...... Everyone there knew what the name of God was back then! So the way he meant that phrase was he would make His will , His principles and teachings known through the gospel of our salvation.
Again, when ever you asked your dad to use the car, did you call him "Abbah," ('Dad,' "Daddy") or by his first name?
Disciple