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Hi guys..

I will put out some scriptures on this angel from the 2001 translation:

Okay, now this huge star fell from heaven..and it's like poison.

Note, again a start fell from heaven, and had a key to the abyss, and let out the locusts

Note, the locusts regard this angel as their king.. and again, he's a destroyer or (like wormword)

Note, the one with the key to the abyss, abysses Satan..

So, to me the star, the angel or messenger with the key to the abyss are the same personage and have to be a good force as he abysses Satan.. so I still swing with the WT idea here, that the angel would be Jesus..

Although many friends that I've talked to think this angel is evil..
Your thoughts????

Hi NewTruth

I certainly understand your reasoning.

I was going to disagree, but one particular scripture gave me pause for thought. Here are some related scriptures:

"O how you have fallen from heaven, you shining one, son of the dawn! How you have been cut down to the earth, you who were disabling the nations!" (Isaiah 14:12)

"I shall put you as profane out of the mountain of God... onto the earth I will throw you." (Ezekiel 28:16,17)

"And it kept getting greater all the way to the army of the heavens, so that it caused some of the army and some of the stars to fall to the earth, and it went trampling them down." (Daniel 8:10)

"At that he said to them: 'I began to behold Satan already fallen like lightening from heaven.'" (Luke 10:18)

"So down the great dragon was hurled, the original serpent, the one called Devil and Satan, who is misleading the entire inhabited earth; he was hurled down to the earth, and his angels were hurled down with him." (Revelation 12:9)

Clearly Satan could be pictured as a "star" in heaven falling to the earth. On the other hand, Daniel 8:10 describes some of the army of the heavens being swept down by a "little horn", so I guess we could equate the saints to these "stars".

In which case, Jesus could be symbolized as one of the stars that had fallen to heaven, as a result of Satan's earlier trampling (i.e. in 33AD).

Interesting...

Hello everyone

I've spent a lot of time trying to figure this one out, it's a good one.

The first thing we notice is that these locusts are given authority to hurt only the men who do not have the seal of God on their foreheads. These are surely those who are sealed at the opening of the sixth seal. Everyone else is fair game. These chosen ones are given protection from Satan's attack, so the locusts can't be from God.

Also notice that Abaddon/Apollyon is given the key to the abyss, he did not have this authority until he is thrown out of Heaven. There are 200 million of these evil dudes, and the "abyss" is most likely the current dwelling places of the demonic forces in the principalities in the heavens that Paul spoke about in Ephesians. Many feel that these locusts will be in the form of aliens/extraterrestrials that will invade the earth, but we know they are demons. The world in general may believe this nonsense, primarily because they have been conditioned for decades by Hollywood that these aliens actually exist.

If this sounds far-fetched, consider something Henry Kissinger said at the '91 Bilderberger meeting in Evians, France:

"Today, America would be outraged if U.N. troops entered Los Angeles to restore order [referring to the 1991 LA Riot]. Tomorrow they will be grateful! This is especially true if they were told that there were an outside threat from beyond [i.e., an "extraterrestrial" invasion], whether real or *promulgated* [emphasis mine], that threatened our very existence. It is then that all peoples of the world will plead to deliver them from this evil. The one thing every man fears is the unknown. When presented with this *scenario*, individual rights will be willingly relinquished for the guarantee of their well-being granted to them by the World Government."

The real clincher that we're in for an E.T. hoax is that the Vatican is in on it: http://www.drboylan.com/balducci2.html

Here's a link on Abaddon/Apollyon that seems to make a lot of sense:

http://users.aristotle.net/~bhuie/abaddon.htm


Lou

I think we have been over this before.

The fallen star is given the key to the pit of the abyss.

As it is fallen I think it is unlikely to be Jesus. It doesn't automatically have the key unlike the angel in Revelation 20, and it is the key to the pit. Not the key to the abyss.

The three woes in Revelation all do damage with their tails.
Scorpions, serpents, and the tail of the dragon which drags down a third of the holy ones. Dan 8:10, Dan 12:3, Dan11:33, Dan 11:35 Matt 13:43,


http://www.paradisecafediscussions.net/s...451&page=1

vicky

Hi vicki, Thanks for the link, and now I do remember it..

I never noticed that before about the pit of the abyss.. interesting. The way I see these locusts, and 4 angels and horses and riders in Rev. 9, is that they are all God's army, ready to kill a third of mankind, or to torment. The voice to do so, comes from the golden horns of the altar.

Going back to chap. 8, the 4 angels sounding their trumpets all lead to dying, as well as the wormword star inflicting death too. These too all appear to be from God's command.. and his warriors, as well.

You mentioned, Jesus could not be fallen.. yet if he was in a glorifyed position in heaven and then came to earth again, to battle armaggedon, etc.. then in a sense he could have been made lower again, as before.. or fallen in a sense..

Joel 2.. really seems to show me, that the war, and the locusts are Jehovah's army but yet that is debatable to some.. love from me..

The book of Reveltion often talks about a third of something.
From Zechariah I gather this means a refining rather than destruction. Zech 13:8,9.
Hence the trumpets mirror the plagues, but the trumpets are all a third, the plagues are total.

Check Gen 49:17 in Septuagint. Dan is a serpent that causes others to fall.
Falling can be an act of humility, but I think it is also an act of not making the mark. Dan was the one that introduced idolatry and was left out of the 12 tribes in Revelation. I will do more research on this.


vicky

Hiya Apryl
Hope your well big sis, another interesting topic by the way.

Does Revelation explicitly identify it's "Stars" with angels?
Because I'm not sure that it does..

Also I'm inclined to agree with Vicky's reasoning on this particular point..

Revelation 9:1
phrear
neuter noun
1) a well
2) the pit of the abyss

Revelation 20:1
abyssos
feminine noun
1) bottomless
2) unbounded
3) the abyss
a) the pit
b) the immeasurable depth
c) of Orcus, a very deep gulf or chasm in the lowest parts of the earth used as the common receptacle of the dead and especially as the abode of demons

As far as Revelation 8:10-11 is concerned; I simply cant see how the star Wormwood could be Yeshuah/Jesus, if Yeshuah is the star Wormwood how can we reconcile that idea with this scripture, addressed to the first century Christians?

Hebrews 12:14-15
Pursue peace with all people, and the sanctification without which no man will see the Lord, carefully watching that no one may be deprived of the undeserved kindness of God; that no poisonous root may spring up and cause trouble and that many may not be defiled by it..."

See also: Deuteronomy 29:18, Acts 8:20-22

Agape Johnny