Paradise Cafe Discussions - A Place For Bible Research And Christian Encouragement

New e-watchman essay:

A New Covenant for a New Creation

Okay, I well know that I’m not equipped to present an intellectual critique of this new essay from e-watchman. :dontknow:

However, I will say that it leaves me cold and, I may add, feeling rather sad! :(

It may well be a competent argument FOR only the anointed being in the ‘new covenant’, although I’m not sure, but it most certainly reminds us ‘non-anointed’ of our station! There’s a sense of ‘elitism’ about it. ;)

I love Jehovah God and His son Jesus and TRY (but many times fail) to do things that please them. However, this essay leaves me feeling even less significant than I did before and makes me think that I am merely an ‘observer’, as implied! :confused:

Proverbs 8:31 says “being glad at the productive land of his earth, and the things I was fond of were with the sons of men.”

This gives me great encouragement.

Hey, maybe it’s just the mood I’m in! :thinking:

Brotherly love to all,
Measurer.

Howdy Measurer..

As I was reviewing this scripture today...It is also a timely reminder...is it not?

1 Corinthians 1:26...

"For YOU behold his calling of YOU, brothers, that not many wise in a fleshly way were called, not many powerful, not many of noble birth; but God chose the foolish things of the world, that he might put the wise men to shame; and God chose the weak things of the world, that he might put the strong things to shame; and God chose the ignoble things of the world and the things looked down upon, the things that are not, that he might bring to nothing the things that are, in order that no flesh might boast in the sight of God."

Christian love,

gogh

Hi Measurer,

30And even the very hairs of your head are all numbered. 31So don't be afraid; you are worth more than many sparrows.

32"Whoever acknowledges me before men, I will also acknowledge him before my Father in heaven.


we are worth so much to our father.. let no one lock the kingdom up.
it is a free gift:whistle:

digital_punk your sense of humour is getting worse :)

I've just read Watchmans essay and have found a lot of leaps in logic and subtle twisting of the meanings of scripture . Not to disrespect Watchman but this essay leaves more questions than answer .

I think I'm gonna write a rebuttal of this essay. It will be point by point to dissect it. Needs doing I reckon. Take we a while to do but some points in his latest peace of work are almost antichrist in nature.

lol - Beau! tsk, tsk, tsk... :bangin: No, you don't, :beatoverhead: no it's not, and no, we won't. :no:

This last part, particularly, has me going ''huh?" -
"The primary purpose of the new creation is to demonstrate Jehovah’s magnanimity in order to dispel the devilish lie that God does not trust his creation. By granting the new creation indestructibility, something that no angel ever possessed, Jehovah essentially created an organization that is no longer even answerable to himself, thereby demonstrating his complete confidence in their undying loyalty. The new covenant makes that possible by producing a nation of persons whose hearts are implanted with the love of Jehovah to the extent that they become as he is.

Secondarily, the new creation will crush Satan and bring about the re-creation of the world, so that in his ultimate review at the end of his great Day of rest Jehovah might pronounce all his works, including the new creation, to be very, very good.
[added emphasis, mine]
So... this milleniums-long battle of good vs. evil is all about Jehovah showing His trust for His creation? ... the 'anointed' living today are 'indestructible', having already received their reward of immortality for being faithful unto death; sealed by death without actually dying, as it were...? and so the ones remaining alive today are already ruling without the full company of 'anointed' who have preceded them in death...? And Jehovah created them this way so they don't even answer to Him...? And who will crush Satan?!!!

I must reinterate - no, no, no. And no scriptural backing for these assertions I notice...

Brian - are these the points you alluded to the 'nature' of? If so, I agree, but more along the lines of catapulting chasms with a toothpick instead of a mere 'leap in logic'. Did not Perimino's essay on the 'Who Are the Sons of God' cover these points and more? At least I found it to be very cohesive and reasonably, logically written. But point-by-point on this particular essay will be most appreciated, brother, and I'm glad you're willing to find the time to do it - I look forward to your answers.
*sigh* :peace:

Thanks Willa. Well your right its more than a few leaps in logic but i was just being polite .:thumbsup:

Yes the antichrist aspect was the last part of Watchman's essay in particular. Have alot of thoughts and contradictions that I want to bring out regarding his essay. Hope u enjoy it when its done.

I liked Permino's points but I shall come from a different angle for the pupose of showing Watchman the faults in his reasoning and to upbuild us here .

Londoner once said that Jehovah could not destroy the anointed if he wanted to, so hopefully they will read my essay when its done .

I don't See how anyone can claim to be in the little flock at this time. We know that the seventh trumpet has to sound first. To believe that the seventh trumpet has already sounded is to believe that Christ came in 1914 AND BEGAN RULING, the very antithesis of what e-watchman teaches?????????

Rev. 11:15 And the seventh angel blew his trumpet. And loud voices occurred in heaven, saying: “The kingdom of the world did become the kingdom of our Lord and of his Christ, and he will rule as king forever and ever.”

Mat. 24:31 And he will send forth his angels with a great trumpet sound, and they will gather his chosen ones together from the four winds, from one extremity of the heavens to their other extremity.

All Christians are potential candidates at this time, and are parties to the new covenant.... To think one is already chosen is an ego trip of the highest caliber. IMHO...e-m :whistle:

Greetings All.

I’ve been trying to figure out just why I feel so uncomfortable with this latest essay and I think it’s where the emphasis is that causes me concern. :confused:

As e-watchman said, “at the end of the sixth epoch of creation, which evidently concluded with the divinely conducted marriage of Adam and Eve in the Garden of Eden, Jehovah declared his work to be “very good.””

Then, through their disobedience, Adam and Eve lost everything!

The Means of Restoration.

Jesus was born as a human being on earth, was subjected to a horrible death! Because he was a perfect man the ransom was paid and the situation on the earth was restored.

As e-watchman said, “It is true, from the time of his birth in Bethlehem Jesus was a mere human; albeit, a perfect one. It was, of course, necessary for the firstborn of the universe to completely empty himself of his divine nature in order for him to become a “corresponding ransom.” That means the value of Jesus’ life as a man had to correspond to the value of the life Adam possessed in his Edenic perfection – no more and no less.”

It’s difficult to comprehend the significance and magnitude of this action by Jehovah and Jesus. Mankind once again had the opportunity of everlasting life! :)

John 3:16 “For God loved the world so much that he gave his only-begotten Son, in order that everyone exercising faith in him might not be destroyed but have everlasting life”

Isn’t it this awesome restoration that we acknowledge when we meditate on Jesus death and contemplate the emblems?

Second Action.

As e-watchman said, Jehovah gave life to Jesus, once again, as a spirit in heaven. Jesus was also to have a number of kings/priests alongside him who were taken from amongst mankind. This is, indeed, a very special arrangement. But surely this was an addition to the situation that Jehovah had intended prior to Adam’s rebellion. As e-watchman pointed out, “God stated that his intention was for Adam and Eve to produce offspring and for them and their offspring to have in subjection all lower life forms on earth.”

Wasn’t this what Jesus gave up his life to restore? Isn’t this what Luke 22:19, 20 is all about?

“Also, he took a loaf, gave thanks, broke it, and gave it to them, saying: “This means my body which is to be given in YOUR behalf. Keep doing this in remembrance of me.” 20 Also, the cup in the same way after they had the evening meal, he saying: “This cup means the new covenant by virtue of my blood, which is to be poured out in YOUR behalf”

As stated earlier, a “corresponding ransom”, “no more, no less”!

Yes, there is the ‘addition’ or ‘new creation’, which e-watchman writes about, but why do I get the sense that the ‘restoration’ itself, and what it means to mankind, is being downgraded? :(

Is the ‘new covenant’ being hijacked?

Concerned,
Measurer. :huh:

Hey Sis Willa!!!! :giverose:

Have I ever told you how awesome you are? Well, here it is --> your awesome!!! Im am so glad you are here mate!! :hug:


May LOVE be with you!!

your bro -- beau!! :grouphug::grouphug::grouphug:

Ever wonder why Watchman booted us?
He didn't want us around to point out his leaps of logic with a toothpick.
Some (not all) on his board don't have two neurons to rub together between them.
No qualified critique coming from those quarters.

I don't think anyone is sealed until the measuring of the temple, and that occurs between trumpet six and seven, which has not yet occurred. Even Paul (Phil 3:13) did not think he was assured.

How then to reconcile Ephesians 1:13, "By mean of him also, after you believed, you were sealed with the promised holy spirit."  and 4:30, "Also, do not be grieving God's holy spirit, with which you have been sealed for a day of releasing by ransom."

I think we tend to think of sealing as some sort of final measure but in the scriptures sealed scrolls can be open, sealed dragons can be loosed, and sealed people can lose their mark. It's hard to ignore those two scriptures in Ephesians which speak of the sealing occuring at the time of a persons spirit baptism.

I understand how you feel, Measurer. Elitism is a killer! The whole 2-tier system that Rutherford honed is one of the worst sins of the WT (imho). It is akin to what Jesus said at Matthew 23:13:

“Woe to YOU, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! because YOU shut up the kingdom of the heavens before men; for YOU yourselves do not go in, neither do YOU permit those on their way in to go in."

Paul also touched on this in 1 Corinthians 3:16-17:

"Do YOU not know that YOU people are God’s temple, and that the spirit of God dwells in YOU? If anyone destroys the temple of God, God will destroy him; for the temple of God is holy, which [temple] YOU people are."

When we were over at Robert's site our hands were tied as far as seriously critiquing his essays and commentaries.....didn't want to get booted from the board. LOL.:gunhead:

Here, we have a whole section devoted to the New Covenant. Let's make good use of it.

Love, Rez:cheer: