Paradise Café Discussions A Place For Bible Research And Christian Encouragement

Hi everyone.

Have any of you suffered a loss of faith lately? I have. I must admit to now being a lot more sceptical than ever before. I've lost a lot of my faith in the last year or so.

It's terrible to say, but the more I think about everything, the more I see little reason to worship God. I definitely believe God exists but I feel no desire to reach out and praise him anymore, especially when it is obvious that there is no true religion on earth, not even the JW's.

It makes no sense to me anymore to love and praise a being that has been totally aloof for so many centuries. All the wickedness and suffering and evil and injustice - we cannot even begin to imagine the horror and atrocities. Where is the evidence of God's love, mercy and justice when he has done nothing to display these qualities? All we have seen is evidence of his awesome power in creating everything and occasionally destroying groups of people in far ancient times. If there is some big universal court case where the issues of universal sovereignty is being decided and the evidence is being collected and weighed up, there where is the evidence in the last two thousand years of God showing love, justice and mercy to his human children? I dont see any.

To me, love is an active, living thing. We can only love that which loves us, in the present tense, not something that is written in ancient tomes written thousands of years ago where we do not even have the original writings. Ask yourself: could you truly, really love a parent that abandoned you and your young siblings as a young child and then stood by and did nothing when your siblings were abused and killed, when that parent had it in their power to stop the abuse and suffering, yet chose not to? The Society uses an illustration about how no normal parent would punish a child who played with fire by holding their hand for ages over a hot stove element. Yet we are expected to believe that this is more or less what Jehovah is doing with the human family - we are puppets in some monstrous legal experiment where billions of humans must suffer and suffer deprivation and misery of every kind to satisfy God's standards of 'justice' and 'evidence' in some 'court case'? What judge would ever demand such a horrible standard of evidence to prove some point.

So it is no longer rational to me to reach out and praise a being based on ancient reputations. I can only now feel a numb mental acknowledgement of his existence and power. It is completely irrational to sing and praise and pray to and worship him, when he has done absolutely nothing for mankind for 2,000 years. If you were God, would you expect every new generation to totally kowtow to you when you've done nothing for countless centuries. If you were incredibly insecure or psychotic you would.

If and when Jesus returns to fix up this horrible planet, then and only then will I feel joy and love for God again. Just like in a marriage, there must be action, evidence, proof of your love for each other. In fact, any human relationship of any kind will soon die unless there is ongoing two-way communication, appreciation, expressions of affection, etc. That is the way God has made us and we are in his image. Hence it is unnatural and unreasonable for God to demand such a high standard of devotion and love from us without more from him first, after thousands of years of aloofness.

The Society uses an illustration about baptism you may be familiar with. It says that if someone just keeps saying they love God over and over but fails to dedicate themselves to them, then it is equivalent to a young man courting a young women, and the man keeps saying to her "I love you, I love you" but until he actually committs to her and marries her, his words are hollow.

I feel the same about God now. All we have is old writings from 2,000-4,000 years old that say "I love you, I love you" but there has been nothing, no words, no actions, for the last 2,000 years. What reasonable person would still deeply 'love' a former lover who abandoned them years and years ago and never communicated, despite all the best ongoing efforts of the other lover to reach out. That love would soon die.

To repeat the poing: it is just not rational to say you really, truly, deeply LOVE a person or personality based on reputation, claims, words, but not present action. It is only rational to love God once we see him reach out to the human family again and show us again that he really loves us and cares for us, because for thousands of years there has been nothing but silence.

I believe miracles are possible, because I believe in God. But I also feel it is not rational to believe in the miracles of the bible when we have seen no miracles for two thousand years and the reports of them in scripture are just so ancient.

Thomas Paine was one of the first to point out that outrageous claims require outrageous proof. It is not rational to believe in claims of outrageous events occuring thousands of years ago.

Even the apostle Thomas was sceptical and would not believe the resurrection until he had seen physical proof with his own eyes. Honestly, how are we supposed to be any less sceptical today and believe without the same proof that Thomas expected, a man who walked with and knew Jesus. I feel like Thomas now.

If Jesus was prepared to provide the outrageous proof that Thomas reasonably and rationally expected, then we have a reasonable expectation to have the same proof today. That proof could only be
if and when Jesus returns and shows his miraculous power. Until then, how can any rational person be blamed for suspending their believe and faith?

Christians have no trouble applying healthy skepticism to the miracles of Islam, or to the "historical" visit between Joseph Smith and the angel Moroni. Why should Christians treat their own outrageous claims any differently? Why should someone who was not there be any more eager to believe than doubting Thomas, who lived during that time, or the other disciples who said that the women's news from the tomb "seemed to them as idle tales, and they believed them not" (Luke 24:11)?

Paine also points out that everything in the bible is hearsay. For example, the message at the tomb took this path, at minimum, before it got to our eyes: God, angel(s), Mary, disciples, Gospel writers, copyists, translators.

In any event, the Gospels are all anonymous and we have no original versions. How can you not have a measure of scepticism in the light of all this?

There was a 30 to 50 year gap between Jesus death and before the first Pauline letters and gospel accounts were recorded in writing - while that is probably too short a time for mythological folklore to have developed wholesale, it is still plenty of time for elaborations, allegory, and exaggeration to have crept in before pen went to paper.

For the same reason most people don't believe in UFOs, even though there are thousands of 'eyewitnesses' claiming to have seen them, what rational reason could there be for completely believing in the miracles recorded in ancient, second-hand texts. I see less and less.

I'm at a position now in my life where it will take a miracle for my faith and love for God to be restored. God has not even bothered to ensure that a religion with millions of devotees who sincerely worship him and his very name has been kept free from numerous falsehoods, shonky theology and downright rotten, harmful policies and practices (I'm talking about the JW's of course). So if Jehovah has not bothered to intervene, even in the smallest of ways, why should I bother anymore?

What is the point in all this effort, all this agonizing over interpretations and words written so, so long ago in the mists of time? Just live a normal, healthy, balanced, life with respect for your neighbour and the planet, not doing any harm to yourself or neighbour. I leave my destiny and the fate of the planet and billions of mankind in Jesus and God's hands. They have the power, and if God truly is a god of love and mercy, then he needs to show the human family that. He cannot claim to be a God of justice unless he provides that outrageous proof of the bible's outrageous claims. The onus is on Him.

Scattered sheep

Dear, dear Scattered Sheep. You’re going through the dark night of the soul. Now don’t feel bad about how you feel it is in fact natural. I am here to tell you that miracles do still happen. I have seen them. Other have also.

The idea of the true religion is a false one. The only way to truth is Christ and the full knowledge of that truth is not yet revealed. Even the Muslims believe in the existence of Christ and before all is said and done many of them will worship him. Christ said that he who is not against us is for us. Gods truth is not mans and when the extent of this is understood many will rejoice.

Now this will sound controversial but what aren’t these days but Jesus when he was on earth left an indelible mark in history but Christ also sent the Holy Spirit which is active now. On top of this Jesus being the visible Jehovah as it were so that we could understand God left the first ever photograph in history, of himself at the moment of his sacrifice that will save mankind and reverse all suffering. The suffering wont just stop the damage will be reversed.

This photograph of course is the Turin shroud. I realise that many might balk at this but it doesn’t matter. Research it and discover that the evidence really does support this idea. If one wants proof there it is. If you like I will even start a thread on it. Outrageous claims require outrageous proof. I would say that this first photographic negative rates highly on that score.

You are so loved by Jesus and Jehovah and just because you don’t feel it doesn’t mean it is not so. They are trying to guide you even now and you will see it eventually but it takes the eyes of faith.

There are very good reasons why things are the way they are, don’t give up looking for them. It won’t always be this way I promise you.

Take heart Scattered sheep you are going to see more than any other generation soon.
Jesus said...
25"There will be signs in the sun, moon and stars. On the earth, nations will be in anguish and perplexity at the roaring and tossing of the sea. 26Men will faint from terror, apprehensive of what is coming on the world, for the heavenly bodies will be shaken. 27At that time they will see the Son of Man coming in a cloud with power and great glory.

These powers of the heavens that are shaken are the removing of Satan from his heavenly governmental position. A removing from power.

http://www.witness.talktalk.net/TheWatch...an_009.htm

I believe the bride of Christ will be informed when this happens. The signs will be literally in the SUN MOON and STARS. I also feel that it will be Satan who brings on the GT and not Jesus because once Satan is dethroned he knows his time is short and therefore must take as many as he can with him, then begins the GT. We will be informed of his removal and we will know what the next events will be, unlike the WT. Only the bride will recognise what has happened in heaven. The Watchtower will not know because they believe he was thrown to the earth just after 1914. Watch out for the Lucifer project. SIGNS IN THE SUN MOON STARS. 25"There will be signs in the sun, moon and stars. On the earth, nations will be in anguish and perplexity at the roaring and tossing of the sea. 26Men will faint from terror, apprehensive of what is coming on the world, for the heavenly bodies will be shaken. July 7. I remember having a dream as a young lad of there being two sun's I had this dream about three or four times. You may have seen this video on PCD if not have a look.
http://my.break.com/content/view.aspx?ContentID=367059

Satan is been drawn with hooks in his jaws to fulfil his own prophesy here below.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ash_5a_37...re=related

Lift your head up Scattered sheep because your deliverance is getting near.

Witnesses arrogantly think they have the monopoly on truth and any miracles.
They don't! Around the world there are many Christians.
Jehovah is not interested in doctrine he is interested in works.
Religion is about doctrine. Christianity is about works.

Biafra
http://tbn0.google.com/images?q=tbn:ZK9t...manscastle
http://tbn0.google.com/images?q=tbn:s0t9...raphers.it

Aid for Biafra

It was officially called Joint Church Aid (JCA).

But the daredevil pilots called it the Jesus Christ Airline with a swagger of pride and hint of awe.
For almost two amazing years, JCA kept a small, breakaway West African state alive, refusing to allow starvation to be used as a weapon of war. It flew 5,314 missions, carrying 60,000 tons of humanitarian aid, and saved millions of lives.

The lumbering DC-6s and temperamental Super Constellations flew without lights at night from the island of Sao Tome off the coast of West Africa into a tiny airstrip carved from the dense bush. They skimmed blindly over the trees at 2,000 feet to avoid the enemy guns and fighters. At its peak, Uli "airport"--really just a widened road--was the busiest in all of Africa, handling up to 50 flights a night, and each flight broke some international law.

Each of the old planes had a JCA logo--two fish, one of the earliest symbols of Christianity. But each also had its own name--the best known in Canada was Canairelief, whose four Super Connies were an integral part of JCA. There was also Nordchurchaid (from Europe) and the Holy Ghost Airline (run by the Irish Catholic Holy Ghost Fathers).

JCA soon became the darling of the media, attracting journalists like author Frederick Forsyth, who made his name as a reporter in Biafra, and the CBC's Stanley Burke. For the first time in history, famine, starvation and the humanitarian response were seen nightly on world television.

It was all put together by a bunch of church people who refused to be bound by old mission, old diplomacy, old colonialism, the power of big oil and the secrecy of murderous bush wars. Men and women took the church's gospel mandate seriously to act in word and deed with the poor and the oppressed. It was the late 1960s. JCA had the Vatican and the World Council of Churches integrally involved for the very first time. It was the church in action. And in the very middle of it was the Presbyterian Moderator, Rev. Ted Johnson. A man of prodigious energy and talent, he held an unshakeable belief that to be Christian, to be the church, is "to serve humanity in concrete actions, to feed the hungry and to promote justice and peace. That is how the real nature of the church became known to the world."

And it was all very controversial with ramifications reaching into this century.

Humanitarian relief: Canada says no, but churches say yes

It is 35 years since the independent state of Biafra collapsed, ending one of the most audacious and activist leadership roles ever played by international and ecumenical churches--and Canada and Presbyterians were firmly in the middle of it. On Jan. 12, 1970, the military head of state, Gen. Odumegwu Ojukwu, flew out of Uli on the last relief flight, Biafra collapsed and the then Eastern Region of Nigeria was returned to that troubled and fractious country.

Canairelief made its first flight on Jan. 23, 1969, and its final trip on Jan. 11, 1970. It completed 670 flights and delivered 11,000 tons of desperately needed food and medical supplies into the blockaded state of Biafra. Churches, relief groups and a few volunteer agencies, including a historic ecumenical alliance of Roman Catholic, Protestant and Jewish organizations, bombarded Ottawa and raised the flag of famine. From the beginning, the indomitable and capable Ted Johnson was at the centre of it all, and he made 10 harrowing and dangerous trips into Biafra.

Four Canairelief crew members were killed when one Super Constellation crashed at Uli. A second plane was destroyed when it was bombed on the ground during the 20 minutes or so it took Biafran workers to unload the relief supplies for Caritas and the World Council of Churches, which ran more than 2,000 feeding centres. JCA lost 25 pilots and crew to the guns and bombs of the Nigerian forces intent on enforcing the Biafran blockade. The Nigerian military government of the day steadfastly refused to allow relief flights or any other form of humanitarian aid into Biafra. Despite JCA's best efforts, it is estimated some two million Biafrans starved to death. The world was shocked as stark pictures appeared on television screens of stick-thin children with the swollen bellies and sparse, rust-coloured hair that symptomizes kwashiorkor, the body's painful protein deficiency that killed children in their thousands.

Biafra was a nightmare for the international community, especially for Britain, France and--given the almost single-handed initiatives of Ted Johnson--Canada. The response from Prime Minister Pierre Trudeau ("Where's Biafra?") and External Affairs Minister Mitchell Sharp was "shameful," according to the Toronto Star of Feb. 21, 1969, usually a Liberal party mouthpiece.

Johnson was unrelenting. He led a delegation of church leaders to Ottawa asking for help for starving Biafrans but was refused. With that rebuff came Canairelief, supported (without government money of any kind) by Jewish leaders, the Roman Catholic Church and major Protestant denominations, particularly the Presbyterian, United and Anglican churches.

Church leaders went back to the government twice to ask for transport planes or money. Twice more in 1968 they were refused. Johnson and his team then went the political route and arranged for two MPs--Tory David MacDonald, a United Church minister, and Andrew Brewin, an NDP Anglican--to fly into Biafra on Canairelief on a fact-finding mission. Their report, Canada and the Biafran Tragedy, became a book in 1970 that recommended Canada use its position to prod the United Nations to negotiate a ceasefire, participate in relief operations, push to have Nigerian civil rights violations under the UN charter enforced and give money for humanitarian relief. They got a flat "No" from Mitchell Sharp and U Thant, then UN secretary general. Both were more worried about the Federal Republic of Nigeria's specious unity than the millions of starving Biafrans.

The politics of Satan's world is the problem.

vicky

Dear Scattered Sheep , without a doubt this is a journey of many ups and downs. I understand your feelings at this point as do so many --if not all--here, as most feel at a certain point full of deep regrets and even in so many cases doubts. I read a book a couple of years ago called ''The Slumber Of Christianity'' that has made me feel ''this dark night'' may be a normal part of the journey. I know a few years ago when I was at the last assembly I went to the speaker referrenced a scripture on our closeness with God. He said if we wanted to we could ask for God's breath upon our cheek (from the scripture) and we could have that. It really affected me because I Knew I didn't have that. A few weeks later I was at home and thinking about it and simply asked God to make himself that real to me --and that close. I asked for his breath on my cheek. I was feeling pretty lost at that time for assorted reasons. It didn't happen on that day but I will never forget the day--the moment-- I realized it had and it was as tho a big wall had come down between me and God and I could feel his presence as never before. It gave me chills actually--and such an expanding heart. I believe that just as so many before you have and so many who come after you will there is a way to find yourself walking with God again even tho the road looks kind of bleak right now. The daily scripture has been discussing faith now for a few days and I have come to believe for myself there is so much more to faith than we may have ever realized. It lives and expands and it also seems to be affected by what is going on around us and hence the need to always pray for more. Faith is a treasure and a gift from God yet also fragile and strong at the same time. From all you have written over the years and shared with us Scattered Sheep --works which I have not only totally enjoyed but also deeply respected--I believe this is a part of your journey that will soon resolve itself --for I believe with all of my heart that our great God and His son Jesus Christ are a part of yours... and I simply encourage you to hang on and pray still for the expanding faith that we all need so much and I believe it will be given to you in a brand new way as I also reassure you that you are not alone---

from a little essay on faith that I have always thought was beautiful--and true.......

'''Faith is the belief that God is real and that God is good...It is a choice to believe that the one who made it all hasn't left it all and that he sends light into the shadows and responds to gestures of faith.....

Faith is the belief that God will do what is right.

God says the more hopeless your circumstances, the more lilkely your salvation. The greater your cares, the more genuine your prayers. The darker the room, the greater the need for light.

God's help is near and always available, and he sends it to those who seek it.'' ...from He Still Moves Stones... May God bless you at this time Scattered Sheep. You will be in my thoughts and prayers and I send you nothing but my best wishes and lots of Christian Love --your friend Wolfie

" Ask yourself: could you truly, really love a parent that abandoned you and your young siblings as a young child and then stood by and did nothing when your siblings were abused and killed, when that parent had it in their power to stop the abuse and suffering, yet chose not to? "


Well SS, I can tell you from personal experience YES!! I have had a burning image in my head since about 5 yrs old. my mother left just up and left. my father wasn't around much and when he was it was a literal fight most of the time.

I stood watching her go from the window... why would someone do such a thing??

well she saw me and actually came back.

I have learned alot of suffering in my life and it has proven one thing to me that we are all hurting so much so that many don't REALLY know what they are doing. Just as JESUS had begged for until his last breath forgiveness for they don't know what they do.!!!!

We have had a bag placed over our heads from the day we were born it suffocates us and blinds us. It is part of the arsenal to keep us chasing our tail.

WE have all done wrong Yet Jesus was blamless and God did nothing to save him...

WHY?? What is it about suffering and why does GOD allow it?

Suffering allows us if we let it to learn what really matters in life.
WE can learn Perfect LOVE from it. The kind of LOVE a that is non calculated or given with an expectation of getting in return.

God has allowed this basterdized Life we live out of HOPE that we can learn how to trully become SONS and Daughters to HIM..

He can not give a glorious undying body to just anyone. THEY HAVE to be PERFECT like he is. Like JESUS was..
Jesus said we would have a TORTURE stake to carry if we chose to follow him.
he forced none of us!!! This whole trial is about choice! we think we have chose to follow Jesus but only till it's starts to get rough.
Please understand that he looks at the eternaty not the 70 yrs we get now.
we will forget about this with time.

I teter with my faith all the time. it is part of being human faith is tied to our emotional state. and the more we get away from a heart of stone the more emotions we have. God allows us to see exactly what he see's. it can crush you to see trully how injust we are.
and how nothing can be fixed without fixing the heart/mind. and we are just not quite there yet.

1 Peter 2:20
For what credit is there if, when you sin and are harshly treated, you endure it with patience? But if when you do what is right and suffer for it you patiently endure it, this finds favor with God.

He will cut the time short when we just cannot endure anymore!!!!

PLs hold on!!! to what faith you have this life will just be a forgotten memory at some point.

Peace to u

Dear brother SS!!

Forgive yourself!

Forgive your Father!

Praise the Lord!

Be in the Present!

Live the Kingdom!

NOW!!

"Everything is possible for him who believes." -- Jesus Christ

May LOVE be with you!

your bro -- beau!

Hello there my dear dear brother shatteredsheep ...

Would you please accept a hug from a sister to a brother ...

When I read over your emotions above I couldn't help but think about various scriptures along the way ... (I know you said that they were written a long time ago ... and that we are not even sure that they haven't been 'tampered' with ... but the messages that are GOOD and TRIED and TESTED ... are things that we can at the very least use as a GUIDE wouldn't you say ... ) and one of them was Jeremiah, as to me at least, your words reflected his anguish and despair and perhaps even a measure of loss of faith as well ...

Remember what just some of the things he said to his God Jehovah at Jer. 20:7-9 ...?

(BBE) 7 O Lord, you have been false to me, and I was tricked; you are stronger than I, and have overcome me: I have become a thing to be laughed at all the day, everyone makes sport of me.
8 For every word I say is a cry for help; I say with a loud voice, Violent behaviour and wasting: because the word of the Lord is made a shame to me and a cause of laughing all the day.
9 And if I say, I will not keep him in mind, I will not say another word in his name; then it is in my heart like a burning fire shut up in my bones, and I am tired of keeping myself in, I am not able to do it.

Jeremiah had spoken his message to the people for 40 years ... a message that was still as of then NOT fulfilled ...

How TIRED he must have felt ... BETRAYED ... ANGRY ... HURT ... TRICKED ... maybe even feeling that Jehovah had gone back on his word ... or that he was no longer concerned or caring about all the evils that were being done at that time ...

And unlike us today ... there were no written words that were that available to him ... no 'history' except 'word of mouth' to prove that God was real and that he was concerned about his creations here on earth ... just his FAITH ... a faith like is described in Heb. 11:1 ...

(ASV) Now faith is assurance of things hoped for, a conviction of things not seen.

(BBE) Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, and the sign that the things not seen are true.

(CEV) Faith makes us sure of what we hope for and gives us proof of what we cannot see.

There was a man who lived a very long time ago and who lived on earth a long time too who had incredible faith to me ... for he KNEW that the promises that his God told him were to come upon earth he would NEVER SEE in his lifetime ... and yet ... he STILL MAINTAINED UNWAVERING FAITH even though, as a human being, he may have felt down at times too ...

I know you know I am thinking about Abraham right now and how many times he BLINDLY followed God's own commands ... and though he himself never seen the BLESSINGS PERSONALLY ... he KNEW that they would be fulfilled when GOD SAW THE BEST TIME to do it ...

Heb. 11:8-10 ...

(CEV) 8 Abraham had faith and obeyed God. He was told to go to the land that God had said would be his, and he left for a country he had never seen.
9 Because Abraham had faith, he lived as a stranger in the promised land. He lived there in a tent, and so did Isaac and Jacob, who were later given the same promise.
10 Abraham did this, because he was waiting for the eternal city that God had planned and built.

So, so far we have seen two MEN ... not 'religions' ... who had a relationship with God that must have really tested their faith to the extreme mustn't it ... and yet THEY DID ...

How?

Because they TRUSTED in their God ... the BELIEVED in him, his love and his promises ... plus they knew he was JUST ... and WOULD right all wrongs done to the weak and suffering ...

I think that 'religion' ... 'false' and 'true' (depending upon who you talk with huh ... ) today has also produced something amazing ...

1Cor. 11:19 ...

(ASV) For there must be also factions among you, that they that are approved may be made manifest among you.

(BBE) For divisions are necessary among you, in order that those who have God's approval may be clearly seen among you.

(Darby) For there must also be sects among you, that the approved may become manifest among you.

(Geneva) For there must be heresies euen among you, that they which are approoued among you, might be knowen.

This scripture has never been more ALIVE to me than in recent years ... for to me ... IT MAY ... be a part of the ones who LEAVE 'Babylon the Great' perhaps ...?

That they see the wrongs and lies and have no dealing with them any longer ... and so the fishnet with all those fish caught together is SET FREE from the net and made to swim in water once again ...

So, if not 'religion' then on what do we base our faith ... how can we keep it strong ...?

Again, a man a long time ago asked a similar question ...

Mark 9:24 ...

(BBE) Straight away the father of the child gave a cry, saying, I have faith; make my feeble faith stronger.

(CEV) Right away the boy's father shouted, "I do have faith! Please help me to have even more."

(Darby) And immediately the father of the young child crying out said with tears , I believe, [b]help mine unbelief[/b].

(EMTV) And immediately crying out, the father of the child said with tears, "I believe, Lord; help my unbelief!"

Yes, this man knew something about himself ... he did 'believe' ... but he must have know that his faith could and should have been MORE than he felt and so he asked Jesus to HELP HIM to have MORE faith than he had, for from the message of our Lord he must have known that he would need it in the days to come when that faith WOULD BE TESTED ... and he wanted to have his faith remain FIRM til the end ...

And IMHO, Jesus must have given this man his wish, for did he not tell his disciples to ask in HIS name what they wanted and he WOULD give it ...

John 14:13,14 ...

(BBE) 13 And whatever request you make in my name, that I will do, so that the Father may have glory in the Son.
14 If you make any request to me in my name, I will do it.

Perhaps this scripture is a KEY one that we need to reflect upon more ... I know I began to ... and though I still pray to my Father Jehovah ... I ALSO now INCLUDE his SON in my prayers ... speaking to HIM and THANKING him and asking him for HIS HELP as well ... and when I began to do this my brother my relationship seemed to GROW and DEEPEN to BOTH Jehovah and Jesus and I DO feel them my brother in my life IN SPITE OF MANY AND MUCH as our dear iso's name so aptly reflects ...

Jesus KNEW my brother that we WOULD have a struggle with our FAITH, no doubt because of some of very concerns you mentioned in your heartfelt words above ... for remember when he said this question ...

Luke 18:8 ...

(ASV) I say unto you, that he will avenge them speedily. Nevertheless, when the Son of man cometh, shall he find faith on the earth?

(BBE) I say to you that he will quickly do right in their cause. But when the Son of man comes, will there be any faith on earth?

(CEV) He will surely hurry and help them. But when the Son of Man comes, will he find on this earth anyone with faith?

We are in a time of testing and sifting my dearest brother and fellow sheep! And a time period that will only GET WORSE when the Devil pulls out all the stops to try to get us to doubt and break our faith, hope and love in God and his promises to us ...

Knowing this will IMHO help us to remain firm ... at least it does for me ... for I DO NOT want to let that wicked old spirit take from me what is MOST PRECIOUS ... my relationship and belief in my God and his Son!!

It is the message about JESUS that gives us a foundation on which to BUILD and REINFORCE our 'houses' ... our 'temples' ... OURSELVES my dear brother I think ... and are we not GRATEFUL that we have HEARD about him and the good and wonderful things he had done ... and the promises and reassurances we have that he WILL DO SO AGAIN ...!!

Rom. 10:17 ...

(BBE) So faith comes by hearing, and hearing by the word of Christ.

(Darby) So faith then is by a report, but the report by God's word.

(MKJV) Then faith is of hearing, and hearing by the Word of God.

Once we HEAR my brother those who ARE Jesus' SHEEP will be DRAWN to him ... and just like he didn't lose even ONE of his sheep when he walked this earth ... his sheep who KNOW his voice and FOLLOW him WHEREVER he goes ... will not be lost either ...

So, take COURAGE and HOPE my brother that YOU TOO WILL NOT BE LOST!! Jesus and Jehovah UNDERSTAND what you are going through and feeling ... and since THEY are the ONLY ONES who can really do something to prove to you they ARE real, interested, and will act at the BEST time ... TALK to THEM my dear brother REALLY talk ... yell ... whatever ... and I know in my heart they not only will they LISTEN ... but that they will give you an answer ... perhaps not in a way you may first hear or understand ... but they WILL answer ...

Please don't give up ... if you need to 'talk' out your feelings ... and which you have already done thankfully ... then do so ... there are many here who can empathize and sympathize with you as they too may have suffered through or who are suffering through the very same things as you are right now!! (you know that scripture too ... )

Anyway, I didn't intend to rattle on quite so much ... but when I hear and feel someone's pain I guess I want to hold them and tell them it will be alright ... rather like a mother holding and comforting and reassuring her child ... (not that you're a 'child' ... it was an illustration ... )

You will be in my prayers my brother ... as no doubt you will be in others as well ...

May our God give you peace and hope ... may he reassure you and help you out where you need faith my brother!!

All my warmest Christian love, BR

Dear Scattered Sheep,

What I'm going to say will not be as good or as well written as the heartfelt posts that preceded mine, but your words, the anguish in them really tugged at my heart strings. I myself have often worried about losing trust in God and what to do when it happens.

Brother, do not concern yourself with who monolpolizes the truth anymore. NOT ONE RELIGION DOES. Call God whatever you wish, HE will hear you, HE will read your heart. HE sees your struggle and pain, and HE will help you along the way. Worship God in the way that makes you comfortable and gives you peace.

Maybe we need to redefine our notion of who and what GOD is. When times get tough, I look at this life as a test or a phase. God has many rewards for me, I just have to be patient and I will receive them. As will many, many, many others. All this evil, its only temporary, this life is only temporary.

The the evil, corruptness and suffering, this is not God, this is man and satan at work. But rest assured that when God's Kingdom reigns, these things will be no more. It is true that God allows this suffering, but HE also promises justice and accountability. He promises us a life without death, suffering or hunger or wars. And everyone will reap his/her reward. If God was to eliminate all sins and sinners, there will not be anyone left on earth today!

My cousin passed away a few years ago. He was only 18, the sweetest kid ever. I remember talking to his mum and she told me it will be written that she is one of the patient ones. I take heart of her words, they are powerful.

Reach out to the world around you, try to help others, volunteer, Brother when you do that, you will see alot of the evil in the world, but you will also see the good in most people.

Pray to Jehovah, hold on tight to your faith and don't let go. Figure out how to worship as you go along. And know that GOD will set the world right. HE loves us so, and will NEVER let us go, for without him we are NOTHING. We are HIS and to HIM we shall all return (hopefully soon!)

Jehovah bless you my brother and guide you along His path.

Lou
PS: I am sorry about the long post

What a lovely post with perfect scriptures BR. So much feeling went into that post.

Scattered Sheep, I cannot add much to the wonderful words of encouragement that have been said here, but I would just like to add that JESUS Himself experienced some of the same things you are feeling.

EVEN JESUS!

About the ninth hour Jesus called out with a loud voice, saying: “E´li, E´li, la´ma sa·bach·tha´ni?” that is, “My God, my God, why have you forsaken me?” -Matthew 27:46.

As TD mentioned, our lives are a flash in the pan, and yet this whole crummy scenario of human suffering and injustice has been going on for 6,000 long, long years. But when it is past, it will be THE BOOK OF HISTORY for ALL MANKIND to benefit from forever and ever. There will never again be any more suffering for all eternity because we are settling the issues RIGHT NOW.

Actually, it's a great privilege to be a part of it, and although you may not feel like it at the moment, you are a very big part of it.


Lou

SS
The only consolation I can give you, is to remind you that you are not alone, and that in times prior to ours, there were many others who felt like you.Habakkuk being one of the many:

Verse 1
The pronouncement that Habakkuk the prophet visioned: 2 How long, O Jehovah, must I cry for help, and you do not hear? How long shall I call to you for aid from violence, and you do not save? 3 Why is it the you make me see what is hurtful, and you keep looking upon mere trouble? And why are despoiling and violence in front of me, and why does quarreling occur, and why is strife carried?4 Therefore law grows numb, and justice never goes forth. Because the wicked one is surrounding the righteous one, for that reason justice goes forth crooked.

Look up the parallel scriptures to see just how much God's word really doesn't differ from our own thoughts. I suspect that's because we have God's mind on matters.If we suffer, how much more does He? We may not understand everything now, but one day we will!And in that day, justice will prevail! That's God's promise to all of mankind who are sighing and groaning about all the detestable things being done not only in His great name, but also out of sheer hate and greed and a lack of love and empathy for others. Remember, though, there are many millions out there who are not like that, and it is for all those that Jehovah really must act and hopefully soon!Otherwise, as is stated in the Bible, by one who experienced so much and at the hands of many, let's all just eat, drink and be merry, for tomorrow we die!Don't give up, SS, as was stated earlier, our deliverence is near!
Christian love to you,
Grateful

Hi Scattered sheep

Some scriptures come to mind...

John 1:9...

"This was the true light that enlightens every person by his coming into the world.
He was in the world, and the world was made through him. Yet the world did not recognize him.
He came to his own creation, yet his own people did not receive him.
However, to all who received him, to those believing in his name, he gave authority to become God's children,
who were born, not merely in a physical sense, or from a fleshly impulse, or from man's desire, but of God."

John 3:16...

"For this is how God loved the world: He gave his unique Son so that everyone who believes in him might not perish but have eternal life.
For God sent the Son into the world, not to condemn the world, but that the world might be saved through him.
Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe has already been condemned, because he has not believed in the name of God's unique Son.
And this is the basis for judgment: The light has come into the world, but people loved the darkness more than the light because their actions were evil.
For everyone who practices wickedness hates the light and does not come to the light, so that his actions may not be exposed.
But whoever does what is true comes to the light, so that all may see that his actions have been done in God."

John 10:3...

"It is to him the gatekeeper opens the gate, and it is his voice the sheep hear. He calls his own sheep by name and leads them out.
When he has driven out all his own, he goes ahead of them, and the sheep follow him because they recognize his voice.
They will never follow a stranger, but will run away from him because they do not recognize the voice of strangers."

John 8:12...

"I am the light of the world. The one who follows me will never walk in darkness, but will have the light of life."


Christian love and appreciation,

gogh

Did you surrender already...or is there still hope?

Somebody believes you can handle it.

gus

Dear Scattered sheep,

Like others here I know how we so often plummet down to the depths where we scrabble for a mite size of faith.

For Jesus to ask if he'd find faith when he arrives indicates how active Satan will have been on the earth, for the times we live in are truly awful and we can only expect it to become worse. So our faith is being tried....hard.. because we feel abandoned.

I pray that you won't succumb to a complete loss of faith, 'never to be regained again type', but that you will claw your way - if not to the top, then at least half way brother, that this darksome time will end for you with the help of the holy spirit to comfort you.

Tessa