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Spiritual descendence of Abraham

Israel is not God's favorite people. They are just His 'favored’ people.'

God is still dealing with Israel. The Watchtower has always disagreed on this saying God has abandon them. Their kind of doma, helps them to 'recommend themselves.' The Devil would also benefit if people were to think this.

Romans 11:25 I do not want you to be ignorant of this mystery, brothers, so that you may not be conceited: Israel has experienced a hardening in part until the full number of the Gentiles has come in.

26And so all Israel will be saved, as it is written: "The deliverer will come from Zion;
he will turn godlessness away from Jacob.

When He says 'all' Israel, He means "all those of faith”, not just 144000 people! Compare with Acts 13:26, 1 John 5:13, Rev. 2:11. “People” not just 144000 people!” ‘Whosoever, ‘as many as’ would put faith in His son. Therefore, those who accept the gospel and repented/repent are new creations in Christ. The Spirit of God in dwells them and leads them. Therefore, Christians are spiritual descendents of Abraham.

Three main interpretations of 11:26 are: (1.) the total number of elect Jews of every generation (equivalent to the “fullness” of Israel (v.12) which is analogous to the “fullness (‘full number’) of the Gentiles” (v. 25); (2.) the total number of the elect, both Jews and Gentiles, of the finale generation.; (3.) the great majority of Jews of the finale generation.

God is not through dealing with the Jews.

Romans 11:11 Again I ask: Did they stumble so as to fall beyond recovery? Not at all! Rather, because of their transgression, salvation has come to the Gentiles to make Israel envious.

Romans 9:6 It is not as though God's word had failed. For not all who are descended from Israel are Israel. 7Nor because they are his descendants are they all Abraham's children. On the contrary, "It is through Isaac that your offspring will be reckoned.

Romans 10:16 But not all the Israelites accepted the good news. For Isaiah says, "Lord, who has believed our message?"

Romans 9:8In other words, it is not the natural children who are God's children, but it is the children of the promise who are regarded as Abraham's offspring.

ALL the Believing Gentiles were coming aboard ship with the believing Jews,(the small flock)!

Galatians 3:8 (NLB) And so it is: ALL who put their faith in Christ share the same blessing Abraham received because of his faith.

Romans 3:22(NIV) This righteousness from God comes through faith in Jesus Christ to ALL who believe. There is NO difference, Jesus was giveing foresight to this in Jn. 10:16.


Galatians 3:14 He redeemed us in order that the blessing given to Abraham might come to the Gentiles through Christ Jesus, so that by faith we might receive the promise of the Spirit.


Galatians15 Brothers, let me take an example from everyday life. Just as no one can set aside or add to a human covenant that has been duly established, so it is in this case. 16The promises were spoken to Abraham and to his seed. The Scripture does not say "and to seeds," meaning many people, but "and to your seed," meaning one person, who is Christ.

Galatians 3:22(Holman Christian standard) But the Scripture has imprisoned everything under sin's power, so that the promise by faith in Jesus Christ might be given to those who believe. 24 So the law was put in charge to lead us to Christ that we might be justified by faith If you belong to Christ, then you are Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.26 You are all sons of God through faith in Christ Jesus, 27for all of you who were baptized into Christ have clothed yourselves with Christ. 28There is neither Jew nor Greek, slave nor free, male nor female, for you are all one in Christ Jesus.29 If you belong to Christ, then you are Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.

Who Are The Children of The Promise, 144000? No!

The children of the promise is anyone who (repents) is faithful to recognizes and accepts Jesus Christ as the ‘promised one,’ the redeemer. Each believer represents the remnant from each generation, (Jn.1:12, 13, Col. 2:6, Eph. 1:13, 1 Jn. 3:7, 1Jn. 4:4, 15, 1 Jn. 2:29, Rom. 5:1, Titus 3:5).

Romans 11: 5 So too, at the present time there is a remnant chosen by grace. 6And if by grace, then it is no longer by works; if it were, grace would no longer be grace.

Each generation from the beginning of time, has had a "remnant of faithful ones."

Noah and his family were the only ‘remnant’ in that generation. Lot and his family were the only (‘remnant’ of ) people worth saving in that city along with other faithful ones in that generation. They were considered a ‘remnant’ in ‘their’ generation.

"Just think of the millions' of faithful ones, who put their trust in God, from Adam till our day?'

The Devil always tried to …’tweak’ scripture, in his efforts to try and fool Jesus as the WT attempts to do with these passages. This next passages doesn’t take a rocket scientist to understand if you just ‘read it’an take it for what it says. Holy Spirit is speaking to you



*Romans 4:11 And he received the sign of circumcision, a seal of the righteousness that he had by faith while he was still uncircumcised. So then, he is the father of all who believe but have not been circumcised, in order that righteousness might be credited to them. (See Jn. 10:16, Romans 4: 9-10, only faith, saved them - Titus 3:5. Today each believer is the righteousness of God in Christ, (Rom8:1, Col. 1:27, Gal 4:19, 2Cor13:5).



Romans 10:16 But not all the Israelites accepted the good news. For Isaiah says, "Lord, who has believed our message?"

*Romans 9:8In other words, it is not the natural children who are God's children, but it is the children of the promise who are regarded as Abraham's offspring.

*Galatians 3:7 Understand, then, that those who believe are children of Abraham. 8The Scripture foresaw that God would justify the Gentiles by faith, and announced the gospel in advance to Abraham: "All nations will be blessed through you." 9So those who have faith are blessed along with Abraham, the man of faith.

Friends, Jesus is over all, so each believer belongs to him. He bought us off the block, (of Sin). Therefore we belong to him who bought us. He is over ‘all.’ (Romans 9:5).

Galatians 5:24 Those who belong to Christ Jesus have crucified the sinful nature with its passions and desires.

I hope there are none here that have not ‘changed their old worldly ways.’ If you have, you are in Christ as a person that your old friends wish they could ‘become like.’ Rom 8:9. The WT ‘book’ studies causes those who read them to have circular reasoning.

14 He redeemed us in order that the blessing given to Abraham might come to the Gentiles through Christ Jesus, so that by faith we might receive the promise of the Spirit. (See Jn. 10:16, Lk.11:13).

Unlike in the Old Testament, God would only give His Spirit at rare occasions, and then only to make a point. In the New Testament, God offers to empower each believer, (Eph. 4:18).

*22But the Scripture declares that the whole world is a prisoner of sin, so that what was promised, being given through faith in Jesus Christ, might be given to those who believe. (Rom. 10:9, 10).



*28 There is neither Jew nor Greek, slave nor free, male nor female, for you are all one in Christ Jesus. 29 If you belong to Christ, then you are Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise. (Romans 3:22).

John 10:16 I have other sheep that are not of this sheep pen. I must bring them also. They too will listen to my voice, and there shall be one flock and one shepherd (Romans 11:16).

We conclude with: ‘Whosoever’ repents and accepts Jesus Christ as their only’ mediator, are the children of God, (spiritual) descendents of Abraham. Christians are the children of the promise that was fulfilled in Jesus Christ. (Hebrews 10:10, ; 13:12, Acts 26:18).


Each obedient believer can ask for this promised Holy Spirit,
How else do we receive the gifts of the Holy Spirit? Do we produce these gifts our selves? No! Are there conditions that each believer must first meet? Yes.” Even though we are a work in progress, (‘He did tell us to come ‘empty handed,’ He understands our weakness, 1Jn1:9. . 1Jn3:7, 1Jn2:29. So empty handed with nothing to offer in return we ask God to empower us with His Holy Spirit, 1Jn.4:4,15.
Ephesians 4:.22You were taught, with regard to your former way of life, to put off your old self, which is being corrupted by its deceitful desires; 23to be made new in the attitude of your minds; 24and to put on the new self, created to be like God in true righteousness and holiness.
1 Cor. 3:16 Don't you know that you yourselves are God's temple and that God's Spirit lives in you?

1 Corinthians 2: 12We have not received the spirit of the world but the Spirit who is from God, that we may understand what God has freely given us. 13This is what we speak, not in words taught us by human wisdom but in words taught by the Spirit, expressing spiritual truths in spiritual words. 14The man without the Spirit does not accept the things that come from the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him, and he cannot understand them, because they are spiritually discerned.

Who are qualified to be anointed (empowered) by His Spirit?

Luke 11:11 Which of you fathers, if your son asks for a fish, will give him a snake instead? 12 Or if he asks for an egg, will give him a scorpion? 13 If you then, though you are evil, know how to give good gifts to your children, how much more will your Father in heaven give the Holy Spirit to those who ask him!"

What are the benefits for having God’s Spirit?
1John 4:4 You, dear children, are from God and have overcome them, because the one who is in you is greater than the one who is in the world.
How else, or what better way to assure us of our true relationship with Him, and Jesus Christ?
Did Jesus really mean what he said at John 14:23? How does this verse really apply in one’s life?
1Jn415 If ANYONE acknowledges that Jesus is the Son of God, God lives in him and he in God.
27And this is my covenant with them when I take away their sins
And only those who believe (those of faith) will have their sins forgiven. Not just 144000 people are in the New Covenant. - John 1:12 But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name: 13 Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.
Romans 6
Romans 8
Ephesians 4:.22You were taught, with regard to your former way of life, to put off your old self, which is being corrupted by its deceitful desires; 23to be made new in the attitude of your minds; 24and to put on the new self, created to be like God in true righteousness and holiness.
Colossians 2:6 As ye have therefore received Christ Jesus the Lord, so walk ye IN him:
Ephesians 1:13 In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,
1 John 3:7Little children, let no man deceive you: he that doeth righteousness IS righteous, even as he is righteous.
Revelation 2:9 He who has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says to the churches. He who overcomes will not be hurt at all by the second death.
If one is born twice, he/she will only die once. If one is only born once, they will die twice.
Each Believer Is sanctified (holy), set aside from this unholy world around us.
Deuteronomy 7:6 For you are a people holy to the LORD your God. The LORD your God has chosen you out of all the peoples on the face of the earth to be his people, his treasured possession.......
Ephesians 5: 25Therefore each of you must put off falsehood and speak truthfully to his neighbor, for we are all members of one body. 26"In your anger do not sin": Do not let the sun go down while you are still angry, 27and do not give the devil a foothold. 28He who has been stealing must steal no longer, but must work, doing something useful with his own hands, that he may have something to share with those in need. 29Do not let any unwholesome talk come out of your mouths, but only what is helpful for building others up according to their needs, that it may benefit those who listen. 30And do not grieve the Holy Spirit of God, with whom you were sealed for the day of redemption.
Do You Proclaim The Gospel when given the chance? ‘Of course.’
All men and woman are not pastors, but simple men and simple woman can still give a simple message. Each is a priest of God. We reject the unholy world around us.
Living Sacrifices are not for just 144000 people of God! Each of us train up children about Jesus!
Romans 12:1 I Therefore, I urge you, brothers, in view of God's mercy, to offer your bodies as living sacrifices, holy and pleasing to God—this is your spiritual act of worship.
Romans 15:16 to be a minister of Christ Jesus to the Gentiles with the priestly duty of proclaiming the gospel of God, so that the Gentiles might become an offering acceptable to God, sanctified by the Holy Spirit.
Eph. 5:3 But among you there must not be even a hint of sexual immorality, or of any kind of impurity, or of greed, because these are improper for God's holy people.
Deuteronomy 7:6 For you are a people holy to the LORD your God. The LORD your God has chosen you out of all the peoples on the face of the earth to be his people, his treasured possession.......
1 Thessalonians 4:3-8
Who gets more credit for introducing one to Christ, a pastor, an elder, or an 85 year old Grandmother????
Romans 3:22 This righteousness from God comes through faith in Jesus Christ to all who believe. There is no difference
We all are only beggars, trying to help beggars, find bread. Each is in Christ. The WT should stop promoting itself and begin promoting only Jesus Christ, as being the only one a person should run too.
John 14:23 Jesus replied, "If anyone loves me, he will obey my teaching. My Father will love him, and we will come to him and make our home with him.
Which pack mule is more deserving, The one who carries the food to the beggars or the one that carries the beggars to the food? ….“DUH”
1 John 3:7 Dear children, do not let anyone lead you astray. He who does what is right is righteous, just as he is righteous.
THEREFORE:
Romans 11:16 If the part of the dough offered as firstfruits is holy, then the whole batch is holy; if the root is holy, so are the branches.
BECAUSE:
1John 4:15 If anyone acknowledges that Jesus is the Son of God, God lives IN him and he in God.
Does the 'pronoun' "anyone," leave anyone in the congregation 'out?'

Does the 'pronoun' "anyone," leave anyone in the congregation 'out?'

The Watchtower tries to drive a wedge of distinction in the congregation where God sees none, other than (‘unconfessed’) sin.

1John 4:4 You, dear children, are from God and have overcome them, because the one who is in you is greater than the one who is in the world.

God has given his people an example of how and who, he wants involved, during the Lord's Supper....Exodus 12:47 The whole community of Israel must celebrate it.

48 "An alien living among you who wants to celebrate the Lord's Passover must have all the males in his household circumcised; then he may take part like one born in the land. No uncircumcised male may eat of it.

49 The same law applies to the native-born and to the alien living among you,"

Jesus demonstrated this oneness in John 15:4-5, John 17: 19, 20, and Revelation 3:20, 9’anyone,’) 'Each' believer is in union with him. If not, then they are none of his, Romans 8:9, John 6:53, 56. The Apostle Paul elaborates on this thought, in Romans 8:1. Anyone who allows themselves (or allows ‘anyone’) to place them out out side of Christ, are in sin, ('Adam'). They should not allow false shepherds to make them fall from grace, by rejecting His offering as it is symbolically passed before them during the Lord’s Supper. In other words, they are in condemnation in the eyes of God. Spiritual blindness is excusable in ‘some things,’ but not when it comes to rejecting the fellowship that God and Jesus Christ desires with each one.This is what Romans 8:1 is saying. This is why Paul worked so hard to place every man and woman in Christ, so they would not receive the wrath of God. He did not want anyone to fail the test, 2 Cor. 13:5. This is why the WT organization would have caused the Apostle Paul so much pain had they been around back in his day, (Gal. 4:19).

The mystery is... "God wants every man (and woman) to be in Christ."

The Watchtower organization has betrayed innocent minds. These passages prove that Watchtower dogma is not well thought out...or, are they really just deceitful as the world community of biblical linguist, say they are?

disciple








disciple
If you're really lucky I'll get the time to explain all your mistakes Wink. So for now I just subscribing to the thread. Hope to get back to you Big Grin
Hey Wibble! Clap


He's back! Hows it going matey? Hug


Wibble Wrote:
If you're really lucky I'll get the time to explain all your mistakes Wink. So for now I just subscribing to the thread. Hope to get back to you Big Grin



Hows life in the Watchtower going for you? Big Grin

And how is http://www.ewatchman-exposed.co.uk doing? Big Grin

Good to have you back mate! Hug







May LOVE be with you!

your bro -- beau! FriendsFriendsFriends

Wibble Wrote:
If you're really lucky I'll get the time to explain all your mistakes Wink. So for now I just subscribing to the thread. Hope to get back to you Big Grin



"Lucky"?

It's been nearly two weeks now and the Wibble hasn't "explained" a single "mistake." That's not like Wibble. I wonder if he's alright.

gus

Big Grin Well luck has not been on the side of fortune and Wibble has been busy Big Grin

Also Wibble had his router broke... Badmood

And his best computer die on him... Reaper

In fact Wibble is still busy and still has one dead computer but would like to get back to this thread soon... Dueling

Thanks for your continued patience.... Coffeeread
But while I'm here I'll deal with the first one because it is easy...

Disciple Wrote:
God is still dealing with Israel. The Watchtower has always disagreed on this saying God has abandon them.


This is actually not true. Jehovah's Witnesses used to teach that physical Israel still had God's favour....

Revelation Climax chap. 19 p. 118 pars. 15-17 Sealing the Israel of God Wrote:
15 Nevertheless, does not natural Israel today merit some special favor? In the period just prior to the Lord’s day, when sincere Bible students were rediscovering many of the basic truths of God’s Word, it was thought that with the ending of the Gentile Times the Jews would again enjoy a privileged standing before God. Thus, C. T. Russell’s book The Time Is at Hand (Volume II of Studies in the Scriptures), published in 1889, applied Jeremiah 31:29-34 to the natural Jews, and commented: “The world is witness to the fact that Israel’s punishment under the dominion of the Gentiles has been continuous since B.C. [607], that it still continues, and that there is no reason to expect their national re-organization sooner than A.D. 1914, the limit of their ‘seven times’—2520 years.” It seemed that the Jews would then experience a national restoration, and this prospect apparently brightened in 1917, when the Balfour Declaration pledged British support for making Palestine a national home for the Jews.

16 Following the first world war, Palestine became a mandated territory under Great Britain, and the way opened for many Jews to return to that land. In 1948 the political State of Israel was brought forth. Did this not indicate that the Jews were in line for divine blessings? For many years, Jehovah’s Witnesses believed that this was so. Thus, in 1925 they published a 128-page book, Comfort for the Jews. In 1929 they released an attractive 360-page volume, Life, designed to appeal to the Jews and dealing also with the Bible book of Job. Great efforts were made, especially in New York City, to reach the Jews with this Messianic message. Happily, a few individuals responded, but the Jews by and large, like their forefathers of the first century, rejected the evidence of Messiah’s presence.

17 It was obvious that Jewry, as a people and as a nation, was not the Israel described in Revelation 7:4-8 or other Bible prophecies related to the Lord’s day. Following tradition, the Jews continued to avoid using the divine name. (Matthew 15:1-3, 7-9) In discussing Jeremiah 31:31-34, the book Jehovah, published by the Watch Tower Society in 1934, stated conclusively: “The new covenant has nothing to do with the natural descendants of Israel and with mankind in general, but . . . is limited to spiritual Israel.” The Bible’s restoration prophecies relate neither to the natural Jews nor to political Israel, which is a member of the United Nations and a part of the world that Jesus spoke of at John 14:19, 30 and 18:36.


One down, so many more to find ... Whistle Wink

LOL...that settles it then: if the watchtower says the Jews are out...the Jews are out. The oracle has spoken.


gus

gus Wrote:
LOL...that settles it then: if the watchtower says the Jews are out...the Jews are out.


Pretty much yes.

gus Wrote:
The oracle has spoken.


Hardly. They base their opinion upon Bible research with the guidance of holy spirit. It is Jehovah that has spoken. Many times in the Greek scriptures he explains it. But Paul often says things hard to understand. It is quite clear that fleshly Jews have no better nor worse standing before Jehovah than any other who has not turned to calling upon His name.

Calling upon the name of the "One Who Is Not To Be Named" does not cut it Wink

Wibble Wrote:

gus Wrote:
LOL...that settles it then: if the watchtower says the Jews are out...the Jews are out.


Pretty much yes.

gus Wrote:
The oracle has spoken.


Hardly. They base their opinion upon Bible research with the guidance of holy spirit.


Can you prove that?

vicky

man hu Wrote:

Wibble Wrote:

gus Wrote:
LOL...that settles it then: if the watchtower says the Jews are out...the Jews are out.


Pretty much yes.

gus Wrote:
The oracle has spoken.


Hardly. They base their opinion upon Bible research with the guidance of holy spirit.


Can you prove that?

vicky


I have done very much deep personal study. I am convinced that everything Jehovah's Witnesses teach is from Bible study and understanding. I base this opinion on my own research. Proving it to be true is a long term option. The Bible is a large Book and their are many, many theological points to debate/consider. But I believe it can be proved to anyone with an open mind and a desire to really know what the Bible is teaching. The problem is that many people actually want to prove Jehovah's Witness wrong. So they do not come with an open mind.

The Bible is written such that a closed mind can always justify its desired view. Even people believe the trinity is written the Bible. So it is up to us to open our hearts to the truth. Only Jehovah can help us do this. If we genuinely want to know the truth and petition him with prayer he will open it up for us.

I believe that any doing so will learn that Jehovah's Witnesses truly have explained the Bible as it was intended to be understood. Many here obviously disagree. But that is my opinion. When I get time I shall endeavour to 'prove' this particular theological point. You will then draw your own conclusion.

Wibble Wrote:

man hu Wrote:

Wibble Wrote:

gus Wrote:
LOL...that settles it then: if the watchtower says the Jews are out...the Jews are out.


Pretty much yes.

gus Wrote:
The oracle has spoken.


Hardly. They base their opinion upon Bible research with the guidance of holy spirit.


Can you prove that?

vicky


I have done very much deep personal study. I am convinced that everything Jehovah's Witnesses teach is from Bible study and understanding. I base this opinion on my own research. Proving it to be true is a long term option. The Bible is a large Book and their are many, many theological points to debate/consider. But I believe it can be proved to anyone with an open mind and a desire to really know what the Bible is teaching. The problem is that many people actually want to prove Jehovah's Witness wrong. So they do not come with an open mind.

The Bible is written such that a closed mind can always justify its desired view. Even people believe the trinity is written the Bible. So it is up to us to open our hearts to the truth. Only Jehovah can help us do this. If we genuinely want to know the truth and petition him with prayer he will open it up for us.

I believe that any doing so will learn that Jehovah's Witnesses truly have explained the Bible as it was intended to be understood. Many here obviously disagree. But that is my opinion. When I get time I shall endeavour to 'prove' this particular theological point. You will then draw your own conclusion.


So Wibble, where does it say in the Bible that one must keep count of and report the number of hours spent in the preaching work? Or where does it say that having a beard is wrong or that one must put complete trust in the organization? Or for that matter why does the Bible make no mention of a Governing Body or Pioneers etc?

Warm Christian Love
Bangalore

Bangalore Wrote:
So Wibble, where does it say in the Bible that one must keep count of and report the number of hours spent in the preaching work? Or where does it say that having a beard is wrong or that one must put complete trust in the organization? Or for that matter why does the Bible make no mention of a Governing Body or Pioneers etc?

Warm Christian Love
Bangalore


So Bangalore why not open up a different thread for these issues you have with the organisation. I can not guarantee to get the time to reply. But I will try.

Hey Man Hoo!! Clap


Hows it going mate? Hug


man hu Wrote:
Can you prove that?

vicky



Im sure 3rdWitness or Al could. Big Grin

They both have a Watchtower CD rom. Big Grin

Unless Wibble is Gareth. In which case, Gareth spoke at length about not being one of Jehovahs Witnesses, but that his own findings were congruent to the Watchtowers findings.

Before Wibble changed the wording under his Avatar, it said something to the tune of "Was Gareth, never 3W".

Interesting.

In a previous post, Wibble complained about people saying satan was the God of his religion -- here is the full comment, here >


Wibble "3rdWitness Wrote:
The thing is it is okay for people to tell me they think Satan is the god of my religion. I did not complain. I have not said that to anyone here. I know that you know my view on other religions. In fact many on here believe that their beliefs are actually true and therefore the beliefs of others must be false.


Full comments here > post #22 http://www.paradisecafediscussions.net/s...462&page=2

So here, Wibble states his religion is JW religion. Yet, Wibble said he was Gareth, who at the same time, was not one of Jehovahs Witnesses.

Here is 3rdWitness praising the efforts of Gareth (unbaptised) >

http://ewatchman-exposed.co.uk/research/...5&reply=44




Wibble = Gareth = 3rdWitness Big Grin

Ah ha!! So Wibble and Gareth are the two witneses? Hibye







May LOVE be with you!

your bro -- beau! FriendsFriendsFriends

digital_punk Wrote:
Wibble = Gareth = 3rdWitness Big Grin

Ah ha!! So Wibble and Gareth are the two witneses? Hibye

May LOVE be with you!

your bro -- beau! FriendsFriendsFriends

So we have Wibble and Gareth who agree with each other and agree with Third Witness. A Trinity of witnesses, what a blessing! http://www.treatmentlabs.com/wibble.html

digital_punk Wrote:
Before Wibble changed the wording under his Avatar, it said something to the tune of "Was Gareth, never 3W".


DP. What I wrote is what I wrote. Why is it that you simply can't believe me? Big Grin

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