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Hi everybody, haven't been here for a while. Anyway I wanted to share this article with everyone.

Jesus at present is sitting at God's right hand - Hebrews 10:10-13; Psalm 110:1, 5. When Jesus Christ returns He comes in four capacities; four offices:

1) First as "Reaper," Doing the harvest work - Matt. 13:30; Rev. 14:14-16, Note in verse 14, "One like the Son of Man." "Jesus Christ" has on His head a golden crown. Note in Rev. 1:13, 14 "One like the son of Man." He has hair white like wool, but no golden crown.

2) Second as "Bridegroom," when Jesus Christ comes to take His bride - 1 Thess. 4:16, 17; 1 Cor. 15:52; Matt. 25:1-13.

3) Third office - The Christ comes after the marriage as "Warrior" - Psa. 110:5; Rev. 19:11-21. The Christ at this time executes the day of God's wrath. Rev. 15:2, 3; 16:1-17 - after the marriage they become one unit - Gen. 2:24. Paul alludes to this principle in Eph. 5:31, 32; 2 Cor. 11:2.

4) Fourth office - The Christ come as kings. Rev. 20:4; Matt. 25:31; 20:4. They will live and reign with Him for 1,000 years - Rev. 5:10

The Harvest

The harvest is the process where the wheat and the tares are separated.
1) Matt. 13:30 - Jesus said, "Let both grow together until the harvest: and in the time of the harvest, I will say to the reapers..."Jesus Christ is the chief reaper.

2) Matt. 12:30 - "...gather first the tares, and bind them in bundles to be burned; then bring the wheat into my granary" (Diag.). The word "harvest" (# 2326) literally means harvesting grain.

Jesus, after leaving the people (Matt. 12:36, Diag.) entered into the house; and the disciples approached Him, saing, "Explain to us the parable..." The Luke account said it was the 12 apostles that Jesus was speaking to (Luke 8:1). The multitudes never heard the explanation of the parable. This was not given to the multitude. When the Apostles asked Jesus, "Why do you speak to the multidudes in parables?" (Matt. 13:10), the answer Jesus gave was, "It is given unto you to know the mysteries of the kingdom of heaven, but to them it is not given" (Mark 4:10).

The Explanation of the Parable

Matt. 13:37-39, "He who sows the good seed is the Son of Man. The field is the world; the good seed are the sons of the kingdom; the darnel are the sons of the evil one; the enemy who sowed them is the Adversary; the harvest is the end of the age; (we could also say, the end of the age is the harvest) the reapers are the angels. "Jesus said that the harvest will be at the end of the age.

End = Sunteleia (Strong's # 4930)

This word means complete, entire, end, fulfilled completely. Dictionary - the outside, extreme edge, or point of a given object.
Jesus explains the parable to the 12 apostles.

What Jesus said in the Parable of the Wheat and the Tares:

1) The field is the world.
2) Jesus planted the good seed.
3) The Adversary planted the tares.
4) Both have grown together for 2,000 years.
5) There are two billion Christians that name the name of Christ today
6) The harvest takes place at the complete end of the age.
7) Jesus said, "He, the Chief Reaper and His angels will separate the wheat and tares.
8) The kingdom of "God - heaven" has been in existence since Pentecost - Mark 1:15.
9) All have grown together since Pentecost.

To be continued if there is interest.

Author is: G. Ibasfalean "Prophecy Forum" January/February/March 2008
A Christian Newsletter Dedicated to the Study of Bi[/b]ble Prophecy

Yes! Carry on, Jaycee. I'm always fascinated by the many roles Jesus plays in the divine plan. Good to "see" you again too!

Note: You may want to make sure that the first part of "bolding" something includes a "b" inside the [ ] without the slash (/) first...and then finish with a "b" inside the [ ] with a slash (/) preceding it...even if you have to type it in manually. Once you start messing with stuff, the program will continue to try and end something it doesn't know you've begun. It'll look something like this on your template (without the spaces of course):

[ b ]..................[ /b ]

gus

Thanks, Gus,for the help on the "bold", I'll probably just give it up. Anyway I am happy that someone is interested in these Bible verses that indicate, to me, what will be the sequence of events for Jesus, the church, and the Kingdom, as God's plans unfold and come about. Anyway I will continue the article. G. Ibasfalean and I see God's plans pretty much the same way. I am always open to seeing other's scriptural point of view though.

THE TARES GATHERED "FIRST"

The tares have not been gathered into bundles. The wheat are not yet fully discernable, nor can we fully say who is wheat or who is not. Jesus stresses that the tares would be bundled together in the harvest. He then says that the harvest is the end of the age. The word "end" is sunteleia (4930). It means a complete end, and entire completion, a dispensational end. The dictionary defines end as the complete edge or point of a given object. The various Christian organizations do not fulfill this verse because many have been in existence for centuries, whereas Jesus said that the tares would be bundled at the extreme end of the age.

1) Jesus will say gather first the tares in bundles.
2) to be burned.
3)Then, after the tares are bundled, then gather the wheat.
4)Matt. 12:41, "The Son of Man (Jesus) will send forth His messengers, who will gather out of His kingdom all seducers and iniquitous persons." (Diag.)

We as Christians do not do the harvesting. Our commission in Matt 28:19, 30, is to teach all nations, baptizing them in the Name of the Father, the Son, and by the authority of the Holy Spirit, "Teaching them to obey all things which I have told you" - Acts 1:8; 1 Cor. 3:5-7; Rom. 12:1-3. This commission is still the same today
1)We are not told to bind tares into bundles.
2) We are not told to gather wheat into the barn.

WHAT IS THE HARVEST?
The harvest is linked with the events that take place at the end of the age,
1)The darkening of the sun and moon
2)The reign of the beasts.
3)The fall of Babylon.
4)The carcass and the eagles.
5) The great signs and wonders - great deceptions.

2 Thess. 2:8-12- three principles are mentioned in these verses, "the lawless one will be revealed, whom the Lord will consume with the breath of His mouth, and annihilate with the appearing of His presence."

2 Thess. 2:9-12 - the lawless one operates "through the energy of the Adversary with all power and signs and wonders of falsehood, and with every deception of iniquity to those who are perishing, because they admitted not the love of the truth in order that they might be saved; and on this account God will send to them an energy of delusion, to their believing the falsehood; in order that all those may be judged who believed not the truth, but approved the iniquity" (Diag.)

THE COMING STRONG DELUSION
Jesus spoke of this condition. It will come as a snare on those unaware and unprepared - Luke 21:35. Matt. 24:24 - A condition will come that will deceive, if possible, even the very elect. Rev. 12:9 - The Adversary deceives the whole world. 1 Thess. 5:2,3 - The day of Jehovah will come as a thief in the night. When they say peace and safety, then sudden destruction will come upon them. Mark 13:22, "False christs and false prophets will arise, and show signs and wonders, to seduce, if it were possible, even the chosen" -"elect."

To be continued.
[/i]
Author is: G. Ibasfalean, 4110 128th Street W, Cortez, FL 34215. Editor/Treasurer of the " Prophecy Forum" A Christian Newsletter Dedicated to the Study of Bible Prophecy. This article is in the January/February/March 2008 issue.

THE TARES GATHERED "FIRST"

The tares have not been gathered into bundles. The wheat are not yet fully discernable, nor can we fully say who is wheat or who is not. Jesus stresses that the tares would be bundled together in the harvest. He then says that the harvest is the end of the age. The word "end" is sunteleia (4930). It means a complete end, and entire completion, a dispensational end. The dictionary defines end as the complete edge or point of a given object. The various Christian organizations do not fulfill this verse because many have been in existence for centuries, whereas Jesus said that the tares would be bundled at the extreme end of the age.

1) Jesus will say gather first the tares in bundles.
2) to be burned.
3)Then, after the tares are bundled, then gather the wheat.
4)Matt. 12:41, "The Son of Man (Jesus) will send forth His messengers, who will gather out of His kingdom all seducers and iniquitous persons." (Diag.)

We as Christians do not do the harvesting. Our commission in Matt 28:19, 30, is to teach all nations, baptizing them in the Name of the Father, the Son, and by the authority of the Holy Spirit, "Teaching them to obey all things which I have told you" - Acts 1:8; 1 Cor. 3:5-7; Rom. 12:1-3. This commission is still the same today
1)We are not told to bind tares into bundles.
2) We are not told to gather wheat into the barn.

WHAT IS THE HARVEST?
The harvest is linked with the events that take place at the end of the age,
1)The darkening of the sun and moon
2)The reign of the beasts.
3)The fall of Babylon.
4)The carcass and the eagles.
5) The great signs and wonders - great deceptions.

2 Thess. 2:8-12- three principles are mentioned in these verses, "the lawless one will be revealed, whom the Lord will consume with the breath of His mouth, and annihilate with the appearing of His presence."

2 Thess. 2:9-12 - the lawless one operates "through the energy of the Adversary with all power and signs and wonders of falsehood, and with every deception of iniquity to those who are perishing, because they admitted not the love of the truth in order that they might be saved; and on this account God will send to them an energy of delusion, to their believing the falsehood; in order that all those may be judged who believed not the truth, but approved the iniquity" (Diag.)

THE COMING STRONG DELUSION
Jesus spoke of this condition. It will come as a snare on those unaware and unprepared - Luke 21:35. Matt. 24:24 - A condition will come that will deceive, if possible, even the very elect. Rev. 12:9 - The Adversary deceives the whole world. 1 Thess. 5:2,3 - The day of Jehovah will come as a thief in the night. When they say peace and safety, then sudden destruction will come upon them. Mark 13:22, "False christs and false prophets will arise, and show signs and wonders, to seduce, if it were possible, even the chosen" -"elect."

To be continued.
[/i]
Author is: G. Ibasfalean, 4110 128th Street W, Cortez, FL 34215. Editor/Treasurer of the " Prophecy Forum" A Christian Newsletter Dedicated to the Study of Bible Prophecy. This article is in the January/February/March 2008 issue.
[/quote]



Continued:

THE CARCASS - the Dead Body

Matt. 24:28 - carcass (#4430) - lifeless body. Luke 17:37 - body (34983) - a whole body, a dead body. In these two verses Jesus states that where the dead body is, there will the eagles be gathered. The thought among Christians is that these two verses should read "vultures, and they are gathered for food." The Diag. uses the word eagles in both verses. "Eagles do not eat dead food." Job 28:7, "There is a path which no fowl knows, and which the vultures ' eye has not seen."

What Jesus was talking about in Luke 17:26-37 was the imminent destruction at the flood, and the destruction of Sodom and Gomorrah. He is talking about the condition during the dark night, the 1260 day reign of the beast, the strong delusion. "Remember Lot's wife" - Luke 17:32. Remember Lot's sons-in-law - Gen. 19:14. when Lot attempted to warn them. "Up, get you ot of this place; for the LORD will destroy this city, but he seemed as one that mocked unto them."

In That Night - the 1260 Days
Luke 17:34-36 - In that night - two men in one bed; one taken, one is left. In that night - two women grinding; one taken, one is left. In that night - two men in a field; one taken, one is left. In these verses, the people are doing the same thing. They appear to be identical. If each pair would be doing the same thing, why would one be taken and one left? Luke 17:37 - the followers of Jesus asked, "Taken where Lord?" Jesus answered, "Where the body is, there the eagles will be gathered."

The eagles - "The far seeing ones" are the very elect. They will recognize that the new world order, the one world government, the signs and lying wonders are really a strong "delusion," a counterfeit kingdom, a whole dead body, a dead carcass. They will not be gathered there for food, but will recognize it as a dead issue, a dead body. They will not be deceived. "Behold, I have told you before" - Matt. 24:25. To be continued in the next Issue of the Prophecy Forum Magazine......Author, G. Ibasfalean

Have edited your post removing the first forward slash before the 'b'

So it is [ b ]........bold on......[ /b ]........bold off.
The same with italics. [ i ].................[ /i ]. It is easier to highlight the bit you want to bold and while it is still white on black lettering just click the bold box B in the top left.

Great pieces of the end-times puzzle here jaycee, thanks for posting this. Can you put a link to where I can find this newsletter? I find it amazing how (in my view) the pieces steadily appear to be falling into place via a variety of authors and viewpoints. This confirms my theory that the actual method that the Holy Spirit is using to lead us into all the truth as Jesus said happens when the body of Christ put their collective heads together. As Jesus said, the Holy Spirit will lead YOU (plural) into all the truth. So by sticking together and collaborating, even when persons don’t agree on all points, the result is a thorough consideration of important topics from every possible angle.

Ibasfalean’s viewpoint of the identity of the eagles and the carcass really has a good ring to it - and is a viewpoint I’d not heard before. I always figured the eagles were the “ones having insight that prevail and act effectively” of Daniel, but I thought the carcass represented some sort of spiritual food they were gathered to and eating. Ibasfalean’s viewpoint that the carcass represents the NWO and that the eagles are not fooled I feel really makes sense. I support the “NWO” as being the outworking of the image of the beast – so the imagery of a carcass of a (spiritually/morally??) dead beast fits well.

I just finished reading The Truth Behind Left Behind by Thomas Ice and Mark Hitchcock – to better understand the “pre-tribulation rapture” camp’s viewpoint. This book presents the view of a pre-tribulation rapture whereby all the holy ones are raptured to heaven. Also it supports the role of the literal nation of Israel being restored to true worship before the end times. I make mention of this not because I agree with it - (I do not) - but because I think it likely fits in with the lying signs and wonders that the Scriptures so cryptically talk about. The whole world is deceived by “something” - that appears absolutely real - and word in the NWO conspiracy theory camp (of which I am a member- and please withhold the NWO nutcase bashing for now … thank you) - is that some sort of holographic deception is in the works using high tech imagery with EM induced mass hysteria and hallucinations.

Since many “mainstream” “Christian” religions support a pre-tribulation rapture of the “holy ones”, and in my view are likely part of Satan’s deception machine buttering up their believers to accept the beast image, to me this sounds like the sort of mass deception that Thessalonians and Luke were talking about since that event is thought (by the pre-trib rapture camp) to precede the period of the rule of the beast image upon the earth. My present theory is that such a staged fake event is what polarizes the entire inhabited earth to embrace the beast image – but the real holy ones are not deceived by it and in fact assist the many to righteousness (per Daniel) to understand the real meaning of what they are seeing as thousands of the “saints” are heading heavenward and some sort of false Messiah is seen taking them upward – some sort of false Messiah that returns to earth to bring “peace and security” (??). We’ll have to wait and see of course, but the imagery of sharp eyed eagles soberly seeing through the deception certainly rings true. Whatever goes down is going to call for the utmost in spiritual acuity to not fall into the deceptive trap, so we should never fall into the habit of presupposing we have the right understanding on these sorts of topics so as to avoid sandbagging ourselves by being biased. Eagles are known for catching hard to spot movement from high above – and if anything else our being like eagles should help us understand the requirement to have a mindset that “sees” things that “could” be a part of Satan’s deception machine.



v r

So happy that you have responded and I agree with you totally. I was really inspired when I read this article of G. Ibasfaleans too. I've always thought about that scripture of the Eagles and the body and couldn't really get a grasp on what it meant. Like you, I think the way George has written seems to fit the best so far.

We do get a blessing from studying Revelation and studying prophecy.

Thanks again for the response and sharing your thoughts

Hi jaycee

Thanks for posting the article. I'm curious to know why you believe Jesus' words in Mathew 24 and Luke 21 have a future fulfillment.

Certain ones were showing him the Jewish Temple when he said that "not a stone upon a stone will be left here and not be thrown down". Then they questioned him, asking: "Teacher, when will these things actually be, and what will be the sign when these are destined to occur?" (Luke 21:1-7)

Note that they were asking in reference to the Temple.

I'd say there is strong evidence that Jesus' words in Mathew 24 and Luke 21 applied solely to the 1st century:

(a) Jesus says there was only one "great tribulation such as has not occurred since the world's beginning until now, no, nor will occur again." (Mathew 24:21) We know the Jews in Jerusalem suffered a great tribulation, as recorded in painstaking detail by Josephus.

(b) "When you see Jerusalem surrounded by encamped armies... then let those in Judea begin fleeing to the mountains." (Luke 21:20,21) This is pretty specific, geographically... and was fulfilled by the Christians fleeing in the 1st century.

© Jesus said they would be "days for meting out justice, that all the things written may be fulfilled. Woe to the pregnant woman and the ones suckling a baby in those days! For there will be great necessity upon the land and wrath on this people..." (Luke 21:22,23) Jesus was talking about the Jews, the "generation" that heard Jesus.

(d) "... and they will fall by the edge of the sword and be led captive into all the nations; and Jerusalem will be trampled on by the nations, until the appointed times of the nations are fulfilled." (Luke 21:24) The Jews were led captive into the nations, and Jerusalem was captured and trampled by the Romans in the three and a half years between 70-73AD (the Jewish War ended in 73AD with the capture of Masada).

(e) "This generation will by no means pass away until all things occur". (Luke 21:32) Between Jesus uttering these words, and the end of the Jewish war, was approximately 40 years.

(f) Wars, famines, earthquakes, preaching, and signs from heaven all occured before the destruction of Jerusalem and the Temple in 70AD. (Josephus recorded those specific signs from heaven, and signs connected with the Temple also.)

(g) The symbols of sun and moon darkening are used metaphorically in scripture to represent the imminent fall of prominent cities and rulers. (For example, compare Isaiah 13:10 which describes the fall of ancient Babylon). So I would suggest the sun and moon darkening in Mathew 24 and Rev 6 represented the imminent fall of Jerusalem and her ruling authorities.

(h) "Wherever the carcass is, there the eagles will be gathered together". (Mat 24:28) Once the Jewish Christians had fled Jerusalem, it was like a carcass... and its body was destroyed by the Romans (as the "disgusting thing that causes desolation" - Mat 24:15). Ironically, the Romans bore eagle ensigns, and according to Josephus they placed them against the Temple, and worshipped them as idols.

(i) The same scripture about the eagles is also used in Luke 17:20-37, in which the Pharisees ask about the kingdom of God. Jesus then talks about what must happen, including that he would suffer and be rejected by "this generation" - then he goes on to compare that generation's destruction to the days of Noah and Lot.


There are several other lines of evidence, but I'm saying that the problem with NWO type interpretations is that they tend to ignore the plain meaning of Jesus' words.

There could only be ONE "great tribulation", because Jesus said so - and it came upon the generation of Jews that heard Jesus' words.

That's not to say that all prophecy has been fulfilled - if it had, we'd all be living in Paradise under our own fig trees

I'm simply suggesting that a lot more prophecy has already been fulfilled than many like to realize.

Well, I think that what was said there was a forshadowing or a picture of what may happen in the future.

Thanks for sharing your thoughts. I always learn something for listening to what others have to say, and you may be right. We'll have to see. We all see through a glass darkly at this point don't you think?
I do believe that it is good to think about what Revelation is saying.

Blessings.................................................joy

I totally agree Veritas.
No one person is going to be the prophet. There are not two individuals who will be the faithful and discreet slave, nor the two witnesses.
It will be the body of Christ working together that will gradually find the answers. It may well be someone very humble, big toe nail, who comes up with the missing piece.
Beware of anyone who thinks he alone is being used; the spokesman, mouthpiece etc. They are suffering from delusions of grandeur.

vicky

I hope we're not going to write off the entire North-South conflict of Daniel chapter 11 to Antiochus like so many other pulpit preachers:

Daniel 11:45 And he shall plant the tabernacles of his palace between the seas in the glorious holy mountain; yet he shall come to his end, and none shall help him.

12:1 And at that time shall Michael stand up, the great prince which standeth for the children of thy people: and there shall be a time of trouble, such as never was since there was a nation even to that same time: and at that time thy people shall be delivered, every one that shall be found written in the book.

Here we run into the same problem as we do at Daniel 9:26 (KJV Interlinear):
"u-qtz-u (and end-of-him) shall come in the flood, and unto the end of the war, desolations (plural) are determined."

The Roman armies did not come to their end, and neither did the King of the North. That can only happen at the "flood" (war) of Armageddon.

Perhaps Jesus was using figurative language when he said "this generation will by no means pass away". Certainly their testimony has not passed away, we read about it all the time. Maybe we should take a closer look at the Greek:

Generation: G1074
γενεά
genea
ghen-eh-ah'
From (a presumed derivative of) G1085; a generation; by implication an age (the period or the persons): - age, generation, nation, time.

Pass away: G3928
παρέρχομαι
parerchomai
par-er'-khom-ahee
From G3844 and G2064; to come near or aside, that is, to approach (arrive), go by (or away), (figuratively) perish or neglect, (causatively) avert: - come (forth), go, pass (away, by, over), past, transgress.

You are right, Interpretum, that according to Jesus' words, there cannot be two great tribulations. I'm not saying this is definitely the explanation, but there must be one.


Lou

Thanks Interpretum for your thoughts.

The WT has befuddled the thinking of many.
We have been led to believe that the generation can last for seventy or eighty years, because they were trying to drag out the generation from 1914.

It aint so!

A wicked generation is 40 years. Jehovah cleansed the Israelite wicked generation by letting them wander the wilderness 40 years.
The sin was gross lack of faith.
Heb 3/4..... and the carcasses were left in the wilderness for the eagles/vultures.
The Jewish system ended within the 40 years of Jesus pronouncing these words.

vicky

Hey NT,

I would think it would be from the time they had children till the time they die. so say from 25-30 til 65-70 years old. type thing. the generation seems to need to be full cognizant of what is going on in the world at the time they live. children aren't aware of the world usually.

just a thought..

Youngs Literal.

Hebrews 3:8 "you may not harden your hearts, as in the provocation, in the day of the temptation in the wilderness,
3:9 in which tempt Me did your fathers, they did prove Me, and saw My works forty years ,
3:10 therefore I was grieved with that generation , and said, Always do they go astray in heart, and these have not known My ways,
3:11 so I swore in My anger, If they shall enter into My rest.......

3:17 but with whom was He grieved forty years? was it not with those who did sin, whose carcasses fell in the wilderness? *
3:18 and to whom did He swear that they shall not enter into His rest, except to those who did not believe? -- 3:19 and we see that they were not able to enter in because of unbelief.


Psalm 95:9 Where your fathers have tried Me, Have proved Me, yea, have seen My work. 10 Forty years I am weary of the generation, And I say, `A people erring in heart -- they! And they have not known My ways:'


Exodus 16:35 And the sons of Israel have eaten the manna forty years, until their coming in unto the land to be inhabited; the manna they have eaten till their coming in unto the extremity of the land of Canaan


Numbers 14:29. In this wilderness do your carcases fall, even all your numbered ones, to all your number, from a son of twenty years and upward, who have murmured against Me. 20+40 (counting from 20 + 40 = 60. Think 60 is the end of the fighting age).
30. ye -- ye come not in unto the land which I have lifted up My hand to cause you to tabernacle in it, except Caleb son of Jephunneh, and Joshua son of Nun.


Deuteronomy 8:2 and thou hast remembered all the way which Jehovah thy God hath caused thee to go these forty years in the wilderness, in order to humble thee to try thee, to know that which [is] in thy heart, whether thou dost keep His commands or not.

*
How many were in the wilderness for fourty days or fourty years?
Jesus, Moses, Israelites.....

The wilderness generation is fourty days/years.