Paradise Café Discussions A Place For Bible Research And Christian Encouragement

Some say:

" But torah teaches us that we must respect it".
Is this a excuse we keep hanging on to some celebrations coming out of the Law ?
What do we read about this subject in the bible ?

Read the words in

Acts 15

1And certain men which came down from Judaea taught the brethren, and said, Except ye be circumcised after the manner of Moses, ye cannot be saved.

2When therefore Paul and Barnabas had no small dissension and disputation with them, they determined that Paul and Barnabas, and certain other of them, should go up to Jerusalem unto the apostles and elders about this question.

3And being brought on their way by the church, they passed through Phenice and Samaria, declaring the conversion of the Gentiles: and they caused great joy unto all the brethren.

4And when they were come to Jerusalem, they were received of the church, and of the apostles and elders, and they declared all things that God had done with them.

5 But there rose up certain of the sect of the Pharisees which believed, saying, That it was needful to circumcise them, and to command them to keep the law of Moses.

6 And the apostles and elders came together for to consider of this matter.

7 And when there had been much disputing, Peter rose up, and said unto them, Men and brethren, ye know how that a good while ago God made choice among us, that the Gentiles by my mouth should hear the word of the gospel, and believe.

8 And God, which knoweth the hearts, bare them witness, giving them the Holy Ghost, even as he did unto us;

9 And put no difference between us and them, purifying their hearts by faith.

10 Now therefore why tempt ye God, to put a yoke upon the neck of the disciples, which neither our fathers nor we were able to bear?

11 But we believe that through the grace of the LORD Yeshua Messiah we shall be saved, even as they.

12 Then all the multitude kept silence, and gave audience to Barnabas and Paul, declaring what miracles and wonders God had wrought among the Gentiles by them.

To me faith is more than keeping the law.
As if those who do not live by the law do not show there respect and believe in the OT of the bible that talks about the Law ?

Is Gal 3;1-15 talking about this,read ?
Galatians 3

1O Foolish Galatians, who hath bewitched you, that ye should not obey the truth, before whose eyes Yeshua messiah hath been evidently set forth, crucified among you?

2 This only would I learn of you, Received ye the Spirit by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith?

3 re ye so foolish? having begun in the Spirit, are ye now made perfect by the flesh?

4 Have ye suffered so many things in vain? if it be yet in vain.

5 He therefore that ministereth to you the Spirit, and worketh miracles among you, doeth he it by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith?

6 Even as Abraham believed Yah, and it was accounted to him for righteousness.

7 Know ye therefore that they which are of faith, the same are the children of Abraham.

8 And the scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the heathen through faith, preached before the gospel unto Abraham, saying, In thee shall all nations be blessed.

9 So then they which be of faith are blessed with faithful Abraham.

10 For as many as are of the works of the law are under the curse: for it is written, Cursed is every one that continueth not in all things which are written in the book of the law to do them.

11 But that no man is justified by the law in the sight of God, it is evident: for, The just shall live by faith.

12 And the law is not of faith: but, The man that doeth them shall live in them.

13 Christ hath redeemed us from the curse of the law, being made a curse for us: for it is written, Cursed is every one that hangeth on a tree:

14 That the blessing of Abraham might come on the Gentiles through Yeshua messiah; that we might receive the promise of the Spirit through faith.


Such power are in these words

3 Are ye so foolish? having begun in the Spirit, are ye now made perfect by the flesh?

We walk in spirit and not in flesh ( as those who live by the Law ).

We need to obey the whole scripture ,of course I respect the OT but also the NT .

I love how the law is showing all the details of the coming of our savior Yeshua .


But he did come already and he died ,

The old law there for is no longer useful to keep

For we are reformed in to His Body ,trough a New Law ,and we walk in his spirit.
The New law is "Love one another"!

All are spiritual Jews , bound into "One body" trough the sacrefice of his blood .
We receive God,s blessing true faith and not in keeping the law ,read the scriptures here.

11 But that no man is justified by the law in the sight of God, it is evident: for, The just shall live by faith.
If you say we must respect the thora,
I say what God is telling in the bible in Acts 15;10

10 Now therefore why tempt ye God, to put a yoke upon the neck of the disciples, which neither our fathers nor we were able to bear?
If you say that we must live by the law because we respect the law
it does not rime what holy spirit is telling me here .
My savior Yeshua did free me trough his great sacrifice from the yoke of the Low
He is MUCH MORE ,he made us free trough his blood and his flesh ,and now we know that we are his children who walk trough his spirit
we are bound in his love and his mercy trough his sacrifice .
There for he said :
45 It is written in the prophets, And they shall be all taught of God. Every man therefore that hath heard, and hath learned of the Father, cometh unto me.

46Not that any man hath seen the Father, save he which is of God, he hath seen the Father.

47Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me hath everlasting life.

48I am that bread of life.

49Your fathers did eat manna in the wilderness, and are dead.

50This is the bread which cometh down from heaven, that a man may eat thereof, and not die.

51I am the living bread which came down from heaven: if any man eat of this bread, he shall live for ever: and the bread that I will give is my flesh, which I will give for the life of the world.

52The Jews therefore strove among themselves, saying, How can this man give us his flesh to eat?

53Then Yeshua said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Except ye eat the flesh of the Son of man, and drink his blood, ye have no life in you.



Shalom

Of course I have respect for any sensible law established as the result of brilliant thinking, personal sacrifice, and which ultimately ensures and protects freedom. Laws, however, only restrain vices...establishing minimums of acceptable behavior. Since the inclination of man is "to do bad from his youth up," laws are handy to have; but that same inclination almost guarantees that most men will hover just above the law. So, while laws protect society from "bad" men...they do little to encourage following a higher calling.

Laws point to what is illegal and say, "don't do that." What law does not do is develop Godly character. Laws tell you what not to do. Jesus tells you what to do. So if you claim to have received a higher calling, where will your attentions be focused, down or up? Will you be "minimally acceptable," stay "legal" and free of punishment...or will you be attentive to becoming a person of Godly character? The man or woman of Godly character doesn't worry about laws. I will, however, give due respect to anyone who doesn't interfere with others who are pursuing their higher calling. It ain't easy staying legal in a system that that only discourages being illegal.

gus

Hi Anja,
Look at what the Old Testament says about wisdom over the law. Gods chosen New testament followers priorities are in Gods service not serving old traditions of the O.T. Hebrew religion. Consider this verse about wisdom and understanding over obeying the law. Notice verse one how it says the father is your best instructor, meaning our God in spirit to those of the spirit begotten nature.

Pr 4:1 Hear, ye children, the instruction of a father, and attend to know understanding.
2 For I give you good doctrine, forsake ye not my law.
(*Look at what God says is the priority using doctrine and wisdom over the law. God says do not forsake the law meaning keep not only the law but sin not also which is the new and better way of the cross.
CONSIDER:
Heb 7:22 By so much was Jesus made a surety of a better testament.
Heb 8:6 But now hath he obtained a more excellent ministry, by how much also he is the mediator of a better covenant, which was established upon better promises.
Heb 12:24 And to Jesus the mediator of the new covenant, and to the blood of sprinkling, that speaketh better things than that of Abel.

AND

Heb 10:20 By a new and living way, which he hath consecrated for us, through the veil, that is to say, his flesh)

CONTINUED:

3 For I was my father’s son, tender and only beloved in the sight of my mother.
4 He taught me also, and said unto me,Let thine heart retain my words:keep my commandments, and live.
5 Get wisdom, get understanding:forget it not;neither decline from the words of my mouth.
6 Forsake her not, and she shall preserve thee: love her, and she shall keep thee.
7 Wisdom is the principal thing; therefore get wisdom: and with all thy getting get understanding[/b].
8Exalt her, and she shall promote thee: she shall bring thee to honour, when thou dost embrace her.
9 She shall give to thine head an ornament of grace:a crown of glory shall she deliver to thee.
10 Hear, O my son, and receive my sayings; and the years of thy life shall be many.
11 I have taught thee in the way of wisdom; I have led thee in right paths.
12 When thou goest, thy steps shall not be straitened; and when thou runnest, thou shalt not stumble.
13 Take fast hold of instruction; let her not go: keep her; for she is thy life.

Br. Mike: Many Christians are trying to live like they are in the kingdom age to come, when these scriptures will take place below but not before the spiritual harvest is finished. In my opinion and by scriptural proofs the millennial age has not begun but is close as the spiritual harvest is culminating very quickly.

Heb 8:10For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, (* Day of great trouble!)saith the Lord; I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people:
11 And they shall not teach every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the Lord: for all shall know me, from the least to the greatest.
12 For I will be merciful to their unrighteousness, and their sins and their iniquities will I remember no more.

God will return his festivals and holiday observances in the kingdom age so his people can celebrate his rule and accomplishments that took place in the Gospel Age,once it is completed and the kingdom age begins. What many Christians are doing is trying to celebrate like those of the Old Testament were told to do before Jesus died on the cross. our hope should be in the future blessings and to looking into what God wants his children to do in the heavenly picture or earthly kingdom to come, today, not to try and observe the Old Testament past practices which failed to pay the price of sin or save even one person. The prelude of a journey is not the path to the finished reward it is only the start to hopefully better things ordained of God to all who love his truth and ways.
Your,
Br. Mike

How wonderfull to see you here Mike
We are free in Him ,free from religion tradition and ritual .
Now we know who our Redeemer really is.
Glory to Yah our savior.
John 14;20
20 On that day you will realize that I am in my Father, and you are in me, and I am in you.
21 Whoever has my commands and obeys them, he is the one who loves me. He who loves me will be loved by my Father, and I too will love him and show myself to him."

Jesus Promises the Holy Spirit John 14;15-17

15 "If you love me, you will obey what I command.
16 And I will ask the Father, and he will give you another Counselor to be with you forever—
17 the Spirit of truth. The world cannot accept him, because it neither sees him nor knows him. But you know him, for he lives with you and will be in you.

High Gus

You say :
Jesus tells you what to do. So if you claim to have received a higher calling, where will your attentions be focused, down or up?
Mine is Up .

Anja

We can have faith up the yin yang, but when it comes to a higher calling, faith must, in my opinion, become coupled with courage. Look how many times Jesus did things that might have been considered disruptive to the law following the word of his father (Upsetting the pharisees and pointing them out to be hypocrites, ripping apart the temple because of the misconduct within, and just plain rabble rousing). How many followers of Jesus wound up in jail or put to death. How many people in this day and age when we have been so conditioned to be sheep to the Shepard of society, would have the courage to do even half of what Jesus and his first followers did?

Right Drake !

You say :
faith must, in my opinion, become coupled with courage. Look how many times Jesus did things that might have been considered disruptive to the law following the word of his father (Upsetting the pharisees and pointing them out to be hypocrites, ripping apart the temple because of the misconduct within, and just plain rabble rousing). How many followers of Jesus wound up in jail or put to death.

Dear drake ,to my opinion to day you also need courage to speak free words coming out of our heart on some websites ?
You can be put to death trough silent treating ,ore you can be throw out of there forum ?

You say :
Upsetting the pharisees and pointing them out to be hypocrites, ripping apart the temple because of the misconduct within, and just plain rabble rousing. How many followers of Jesus wound up in jail or put to death.

Yes you are right Drake ,but they keep there joy and there love in sharing God,s truth ,and they did not stop telling who the Christ is .