09-03-2009, 10:22 AM
09-04-2009, 03:15 AM
Seraphim Wrote:
I think a good biblical idea for understanding all these difficult questions over Genesis and what perfection might be is to take its metaphor of a child growing to maturity. There are loads of scriptures that talk about babes needing spiritual milk to begin with, then they mature and eventually grow to completeness, even getting to the stage of not needing anyone to teach them any longer. I guess that be would the stage where one acquires the mind of Christ. A mother with a new born knows her child is perfect, but in the sense that she loves it for what it is and its potential. She views it as perfect even if it has some health problem, no question at all. The baby though is not perfect in the biblical sense that it is complete. It has no moral understanding of right and wrong and cannot think for itself. It is totally dependent on the parents. It also hasn't reached it potential or discovered it own unique purpose in life. In all these senses it is not yet in the image of its parents. It doesnt even look like them yet, but like Winston Churchill as with all baby's.
After a while the child gets a little older. It learns to talk and communicate with its parents on a very innocent, naive and basic level, and the parents at this stage have to give the child a few rules for its protection. At the same time the child is able to move around for itself now, even though it falls down allot. It doesnt as yet move forward with understanding. One of the rules from the parents is to not go near the stairs for obvious reasons or to go near the toilet, or the inviting looking bottle of bleach while mummy is cleaning it. The child develops with a few mishaps and accidents along the way. Nothing the parents could not deal with and no injury's mummy couldn't heal. At one point the child was warned not to play in the garden next to pile of rotting wood. It was to much temptation for the kid and it got a splinter. Mother had to get the splinter out but the kid, was scarred of needles. The mother promised an ice cream if the kid cooperated with the miner medical procedure. All was well.
The child obeys all rules and knows that when it disobeys it either comes to harm or gets a loving punishment. It learns that obeying the rules is where it is at. Reward and punishment is the perspective. If it obeys it gets to play in the garden but if not, it get grounded or a smack. The rules are everything and its master. Its a slave to the rules but for good reason. It has a very literalistic,wooden approach to the rules, but the parents take this into consideration when giving instruction for they are aware of the stage of development the child is at. To much to soon would be harmful. There is no discussion from the child as to exceptions to any rule, but as it gets older it starts to try and push the boundaries out of temptation rather than understanding. It certainly doesnt want to clean the toilet with a responsible use of bleach at this stage. That rule still stands without exception, which would be needed at a later stage of development. Its not yet mature enough to be the master of the rules. It knows the rules but doesnt really understand them. The knowledge of good and bad has not yet been learned.
The child continues to develop and goes to school and makes some friends of it own. The parents tell the child to come straight home from school and to not talk to strangers while outside school or home. The child dutifully obeys. The kids new friend he made at school invites him to his house. The child ask`s permission from mum and dad first. Permission granted! The next day the child goes back to his friends house with his friend. The child begins to realize that rules are not rigid things then never adapt to changing circumstances. If they were he could never have visited his new friend. His development continues.
He is a teenager now. He feels freedom beckoning at the door but he not ready for it yet. His relationship with his parents though is much more equal looking. He still obeys them but negotiates extra freedoms. His understanding of rules has gone way beyond a literalistic and wooden one. The Reward and punishment perspective has been replaced with a relationship oriented approach. His relationship with mum and dad and with rules is now two way. He has now become able to employ rules rather then to be employed by them. His understanding of good and bad has started in earnest and is starting to get a real feel for it. Mum and dad are happy to grant more freedom as their son demonstrates an understanding of the rules. They no longer have to explain every specific rule and specific circumstance. As freedom increases the possible circumstances of life become to many to number so this understanding they have built into their son is essential if he is to remain safe in the big open wilderness of the world. The small childhood garden with its simple rules is almost a distant memory now. The nursery is being left behind. Mum and dad even feel comfortable to let him make some of his own mistakes, so that he will listen to the voice of his own experience in life.
The child has now left school and graduated. He still lives at home and obeys mum and dad. However he has met a girl. They are in love. The day has come for him to leave home and marry the girl. He is now of age. He has become just like his mum and dad. He is the image of his parents along with his new wife. He now knows how, why and when to make his own rules. He has become lord of the law. Freedom now is as limited as his mastership of the knowledge of good and bad. He is a man. He has the mind of his parents and knows exactly what they would do in any given situation. He is complete. He can take into account new circumstances with ease. He now knows that love of others and a healthy love of himself is the corner stone of his freedom. Any rule or law he makes for himself and his new family he subjects to this understanding so that he will always hit the bullseye and succeed in life. He will always remember his parents with gratitude for doing the same and will always obey them. The only thought he now has, as he ponders this, is that he now always seems to agree with his parents anyway, and hasn't had to obey them in years. He and them always reach the same conclusions and always agree. The student has become like the teacher. He has become fully competent and completely equipt for every good work in life.
He was the youngest child. His dad told him that he now has the mind in him that was in his brother who is now the president of the country. His dad goes to bless him and tell him that every stage of his development from a baby was a necessary step in reaching his potential which turns out to be unlimited in future scope. He now needs no one to be teaching him but now the opposite. He was served but now will start to serve others. He gets a job as a teacher because his wife is pregnant and a whole new generation is on its way. He sacrifices himself for other and realizes it is not about himself any longer but others. He is now completely complete. He is perfect but always was to his mum and dad. They saw what he would become before he was even conceived. All his parts were down in writing in their hearts. Through love,care and discipline the vision of his parents became shaped into reality.
I think this might be what Genesis, the law, the bible means when it talks about perfection.
After a while the child gets a little older. It learns to talk and communicate with its parents on a very innocent, naive and basic level, and the parents at this stage have to give the child a few rules for its protection. At the same time the child is able to move around for itself now, even though it falls down allot. It doesnt as yet move forward with understanding. One of the rules from the parents is to not go near the stairs for obvious reasons or to go near the toilet, or the inviting looking bottle of bleach while mummy is cleaning it. The child develops with a few mishaps and accidents along the way. Nothing the parents could not deal with and no injury's mummy couldn't heal. At one point the child was warned not to play in the garden next to pile of rotting wood. It was to much temptation for the kid and it got a splinter. Mother had to get the splinter out but the kid, was scarred of needles. The mother promised an ice cream if the kid cooperated with the miner medical procedure. All was well.
The child obeys all rules and knows that when it disobeys it either comes to harm or gets a loving punishment. It learns that obeying the rules is where it is at. Reward and punishment is the perspective. If it obeys it gets to play in the garden but if not, it get grounded or a smack. The rules are everything and its master. Its a slave to the rules but for good reason. It has a very literalistic,wooden approach to the rules, but the parents take this into consideration when giving instruction for they are aware of the stage of development the child is at. To much to soon would be harmful. There is no discussion from the child as to exceptions to any rule, but as it gets older it starts to try and push the boundaries out of temptation rather than understanding. It certainly doesnt want to clean the toilet with a responsible use of bleach at this stage. That rule still stands without exception, which would be needed at a later stage of development. Its not yet mature enough to be the master of the rules. It knows the rules but doesnt really understand them. The knowledge of good and bad has not yet been learned.
The child continues to develop and goes to school and makes some friends of it own. The parents tell the child to come straight home from school and to not talk to strangers while outside school or home. The child dutifully obeys. The kids new friend he made at school invites him to his house. The child ask`s permission from mum and dad first. Permission granted! The next day the child goes back to his friends house with his friend. The child begins to realize that rules are not rigid things then never adapt to changing circumstances. If they were he could never have visited his new friend. His development continues.
He is a teenager now. He feels freedom beckoning at the door but he not ready for it yet. His relationship with his parents though is much more equal looking. He still obeys them but negotiates extra freedoms. His understanding of rules has gone way beyond a literalistic and wooden one. The Reward and punishment perspective has been replaced with a relationship oriented approach. His relationship with mum and dad and with rules is now two way. He has now become able to employ rules rather then to be employed by them. His understanding of good and bad has started in earnest and is starting to get a real feel for it. Mum and dad are happy to grant more freedom as their son demonstrates an understanding of the rules. They no longer have to explain every specific rule and specific circumstance. As freedom increases the possible circumstances of life become to many to number so this understanding they have built into their son is essential if he is to remain safe in the big open wilderness of the world. The small childhood garden with its simple rules is almost a distant memory now. The nursery is being left behind. Mum and dad even feel comfortable to let him make some of his own mistakes, so that he will listen to the voice of his own experience in life.
The child has now left school and graduated. He still lives at home and obeys mum and dad. However he has met a girl. They are in love. The day has come for him to leave home and marry the girl. He is now of age. He has become just like his mum and dad. He is the image of his parents along with his new wife. He now knows how, why and when to make his own rules. He has become lord of the law. Freedom now is as limited as his mastership of the knowledge of good and bad. He is a man. He has the mind of his parents and knows exactly what they would do in any given situation. He is complete. He can take into account new circumstances with ease. He now knows that love of others and a healthy love of himself is the corner stone of his freedom. Any rule or law he makes for himself and his new family he subjects to this understanding so that he will always hit the bullseye and succeed in life. He will always remember his parents with gratitude for doing the same and will always obey them. The only thought he now has, as he ponders this, is that he now always seems to agree with his parents anyway, and hasn't had to obey them in years. He and them always reach the same conclusions and always agree. The student has become like the teacher. He has become fully competent and completely equipt for every good work in life.
He was the youngest child. His dad told him that he now has the mind in him that was in his brother who is now the president of the country. His dad goes to bless him and tell him that every stage of his development from a baby was a necessary step in reaching his potential which turns out to be unlimited in future scope. He now needs no one to be teaching him but now the opposite. He was served but now will start to serve others. He gets a job as a teacher because his wife is pregnant and a whole new generation is on its way. He sacrifices himself for other and realizes it is not about himself any longer but others. He is now completely complete. He is perfect but always was to his mum and dad. They saw what he would become before he was even conceived. All his parts were down in writing in their hearts. Through love,care and discipline the vision of his parents became shaped into reality.
I think this might be what Genesis, the law, the bible means when it talks about perfection.
Gee, If only I had parents like this :cry::crybaby:
09-04-2009, 06:09 AM
Mum and dad in this are a metaphor for God so perhaps you do!
09-09-2009, 02:21 PM
observant Wrote:
Quote:
RE: Will humans have super powers?
Only if you have a cape. No cape, no powers.
I call wonder woman.
There will be no capes in the New System. They get stuck in revolving doors and sucked into jet engine intakes.
09-09-2009, 08:33 PM
I think that we will have 'super gifts' ... :present: :present:
What we as 'perfected' people will do when we have the privilege to become all we can be ... (no not an add for the army ... ;):P ) is way beyond our comprehension right now I think ...
I personally tend to think that we will have 'faith that can move mountains' ... and if we can 'move mountains' ... who knows what else we can do!! :thumbsup::cheer:
But whatever gifts we do have I do KNOW that they will only ever be used for GOOD :thumbsup: ... for the GLORY of our heavenly Father :read:... and for the UNITY and LOVE :heartbeat:of our brotherhood both heavenly and earthly!!:grouphug:
Just a penny thought ... BR :sheepy: :bouncyhearts:
What we as 'perfected' people will do when we have the privilege to become all we can be ... (no not an add for the army ... ;):P ) is way beyond our comprehension right now I think ...
I personally tend to think that we will have 'faith that can move mountains' ... and if we can 'move mountains' ... who knows what else we can do!! :thumbsup::cheer:
But whatever gifts we do have I do KNOW that they will only ever be used for GOOD :thumbsup: ... for the GLORY of our heavenly Father :read:... and for the UNITY and LOVE :heartbeat:of our brotherhood both heavenly and earthly!!:grouphug:
Just a penny thought ... BR :sheepy: :bouncyhearts:
09-20-2009, 01:48 AM
Hi all, seen its been 10 days since this was up/ also seen the post was started over 1 1/2 years ago, also seen how we have moved on in our thinking since the first post, including myself.:)
When Jah said 'Let us make man in our image , He of course was speaking of spiritual traits. for the very reason Adam had a physical body and Jah is a spirit.
The first humans had all the godly frutages of Jehovahs spirit. This is what perfection was.Gal 5:22-24 .
The fruitages of the flesh/world weren't known as yet. Gal 5:19-21 .These are what sent us down hill.
With 6000 years to the history of mankind we all were introduced to both fruitage's, that's why for the 1000 year reign of Christ , with out satan in the picture we will be cultivating these godly fruitages during that time until we have reached the perfected state of Adam , Eve
This time period will also allow for the resurrected to do the same. We the survivors will be ahead on this road and be very good examples /teachers for the time the unrighteous are brought back
Those that will rule with Jesus will NOT have to wait for the 1000 years to reach that state, Jehovah knows who they are and will chose these that have abandoned all false hood and declare them righteous as His adopted sons Matt 24:31 Rev 7:3 .
These remaining ones will finish the witnessing Jesus started in the first century. Rev 11 :5-7. Rev 12:17
. Many of which have been slaughtered thru the century's laying under the alter asleep until the remaining ones of the brothers join them in death,. Rev 6:3 1Thess 4:15-17
Jesus of course was born with the very same godly qualities as Adams creation. The father is the life giver so being Jah was the one that implanted Mary with Jesus and it was Jahs Holy Spirit that activated the cells to start life with in her, it was then that Jesus became His Human Son
The only thing Jesus really had to learn as a human , being made in Gods Image was obedience , which world be obedience to death, which he had never experienced. because in his spirit form he was created with everlasting life.
Heb 5:6-10 reads Even though Jesus was God’s Son, he learned obedience from the things he suffered. In this way, God qualified him as a perfect High Priest, and he became the source of eternal salvation for all those who obey him. And God designated him to be a High Priest in the order of Melchizedek.
I feel personally being that "" perfect is the activity of Jehovah,""
as a human, Jesus immune system would ward off any thing that would mare his physical body..( my thoughts )
other then that there were no super powers . Of course we are speaking about the years before Jesus was anointed the Christ .
Even at the Temple when he was 12 years old, he was a 12 year old displaying the fruitage's of Gods spirit. His body would eventually wear out and die, as he was born of a woman, He was not destined to live forever when he was born,
so there is no since in guessing how long he would have lived , because had he lived longer then what his purpose was then it would have been that he too would have missed the mark of perfection, which we know he didn't, he was obedient until the end as was brought out.
He was born of a woman The life span then had already been shortened due to the ring of water that fell that was around the earth before the flood.That water canopy acted as a protection from the sun rays.
all that have died had to experience death because we inherited death, so the scriptures say
Death is a enemy,where as Jesus was free from inherited death as he was not a off spring of Adam.
This made Jesus the perfect lamb of God to be sacrificed according to the Mosaic Law which Jesus filled to the letter.
In preparing the Jews for Jesus, John the Baptist directed his followers to Jesus as the lamb/ of God. John 1:29, 35-36
Our super powers after Armageddon will be to make the earth ready for those that will be in the resurrection.
Hey there's going to be plenty to do in the work of the Lord, during that last 1000 years ,no one will be bored.
This is what the lovers of Jehovah are promised in Isaiah 65 :21-24
And they shall build houses, and inhabit them; and they shall plant vineyards, and eat the fruit of them.
They shall not build, and another inhabit; they shall not plant, and another eat: for as the days of a tree shall be the days of my people, and my chosen shall long enjoy the work of their hands.
They shall not labor in vain, nor bring forth for calamity; for they are the seed of the blessed of Jehovah, and their offspring with them.
And it shall come to pass that, before they call, I will answer; and while they are yet speaking, I will hear. :heartbeat:
Just sharing my thoughts so only speaking for myself
love susanna :grouphug:
When Jah said 'Let us make man in our image , He of course was speaking of spiritual traits. for the very reason Adam had a physical body and Jah is a spirit.
The first humans had all the godly frutages of Jehovahs spirit. This is what perfection was.Gal 5:22-24 .
The fruitages of the flesh/world weren't known as yet. Gal 5:19-21 .These are what sent us down hill.
With 6000 years to the history of mankind we all were introduced to both fruitage's, that's why for the 1000 year reign of Christ , with out satan in the picture we will be cultivating these godly fruitages during that time until we have reached the perfected state of Adam , Eve
This time period will also allow for the resurrected to do the same. We the survivors will be ahead on this road and be very good examples /teachers for the time the unrighteous are brought back
Those that will rule with Jesus will NOT have to wait for the 1000 years to reach that state, Jehovah knows who they are and will chose these that have abandoned all false hood and declare them righteous as His adopted sons Matt 24:31 Rev 7:3 .
These remaining ones will finish the witnessing Jesus started in the first century. Rev 11 :5-7. Rev 12:17
. Many of which have been slaughtered thru the century's laying under the alter asleep until the remaining ones of the brothers join them in death,. Rev 6:3 1Thess 4:15-17
Jesus of course was born with the very same godly qualities as Adams creation. The father is the life giver so being Jah was the one that implanted Mary with Jesus and it was Jahs Holy Spirit that activated the cells to start life with in her, it was then that Jesus became His Human Son
The only thing Jesus really had to learn as a human , being made in Gods Image was obedience , which world be obedience to death, which he had never experienced. because in his spirit form he was created with everlasting life.
Heb 5:6-10 reads Even though Jesus was God’s Son, he learned obedience from the things he suffered. In this way, God qualified him as a perfect High Priest, and he became the source of eternal salvation for all those who obey him. And God designated him to be a High Priest in the order of Melchizedek.
I feel personally being that "" perfect is the activity of Jehovah,""
as a human, Jesus immune system would ward off any thing that would mare his physical body..( my thoughts )
other then that there were no super powers . Of course we are speaking about the years before Jesus was anointed the Christ .
Even at the Temple when he was 12 years old, he was a 12 year old displaying the fruitage's of Gods spirit. His body would eventually wear out and die, as he was born of a woman, He was not destined to live forever when he was born,
so there is no since in guessing how long he would have lived , because had he lived longer then what his purpose was then it would have been that he too would have missed the mark of perfection, which we know he didn't, he was obedient until the end as was brought out.
He was born of a woman The life span then had already been shortened due to the ring of water that fell that was around the earth before the flood.That water canopy acted as a protection from the sun rays.
all that have died had to experience death because we inherited death, so the scriptures say
Death is a enemy,where as Jesus was free from inherited death as he was not a off spring of Adam.
This made Jesus the perfect lamb of God to be sacrificed according to the Mosaic Law which Jesus filled to the letter.
In preparing the Jews for Jesus, John the Baptist directed his followers to Jesus as the lamb/ of God. John 1:29, 35-36
Our super powers after Armageddon will be to make the earth ready for those that will be in the resurrection.
Hey there's going to be plenty to do in the work of the Lord, during that last 1000 years ,no one will be bored.
This is what the lovers of Jehovah are promised in Isaiah 65 :21-24
And they shall build houses, and inhabit them; and they shall plant vineyards, and eat the fruit of them.
They shall not build, and another inhabit; they shall not plant, and another eat: for as the days of a tree shall be the days of my people, and my chosen shall long enjoy the work of their hands.
They shall not labor in vain, nor bring forth for calamity; for they are the seed of the blessed of Jehovah, and their offspring with them.
And it shall come to pass that, before they call, I will answer; and while they are yet speaking, I will hear. :heartbeat:
Just sharing my thoughts so only speaking for myself
love susanna :grouphug:
Pages: 1 2