I thought I would post this to get opinions from you who surf the net and come across such argumentation for the existence of God.
Does evil exist? Did God create evil?
A University professor challenged his students with this question: "Did God create everything that exists?"
A student bravely replied, "Yes he did!"
"God created everything?" The professor asked.
"Yes sir", the student replied.
The professor answered, "If God created everything, then God created evil, since evil exists, and according to the principal that our works define who we are, then God is evil."
The student became quiet before such an answer. The professor, quite pleased with himself, boasted to the students that he had proven once more that the religious faith was a myth.
Another student raised his hand and said, "Can I ask you a question professor?"
"Of course," replied the professor.
The student stood up and asked, "Professor does cold exist?"
"What kind of question is this? Of course it exists. Have you never been cold?" The students snickered at the young man's question.
The young man replied, "In fact sir, cold does not exist. According to the laws of physics, what we consider cold is in reality the absence of heat. Every body or object is susceptible to study when it has or transmits energy, and heat is what makes a body or matter have or transmit energy. Absolute zero (-460? F) is the total absence of heat; all matter becomes inert and incapable of reaction at that temperature. Cold does not exist. We have created this word to describe how we feel if we have no heat."
The student continued, "Professor, does darkness exist?"
The professor responded, "Of course it does."
The student replied, "Once again you are wrong sir, darkness does not exist either. Darkness is in reality the absence of light. Light we can study, but not darkness. In fact we can use Newton's prism to break white light into many colors and study the various wavelengths of each color. You cannot measure darkness. A simple ray of light can break into a world of darkness and illuminate it. How can you know how dark a certain space is? You measure the amount of light present. Isn't this correct? Darkness is a term used by man to describe what happens when there is no light present."
Finally the young man asked the professor, "Sir, does evil exist?"
Now uncertain, the professor responded, "Of course as I have already said. We see it everyday. It is in the daily example of man's inhumanity to man. It is in the multitude of crime and violence everywhere in the world. These manifestations are nothing else but evil.
To this the student replied, "Evil dies not exist sir, or at least is does not exist unto itself. Evil is simply the absence of God. It is just like darkness and cold, a word that man has created to describe the absence of God. God did not create evil. Evil is the result of what happens when man does not have God's love present in his heart. It's like the cold that comes when there is no heat or the darkness that comes when there is no light."
The professor sat down.
The young man's name -- Albert Einstein
Now my question is this since this is all over the net and on websites particularly of "Christian" origin. Is the argument sound? Was Albert Einstein really the student?
Love,
sw
Re: ""Did God create everything that exists?"
Yes, including nothing, imo.
Nothing is the absence of something.
Without nothing there could be no comparison of/to the somethings.
There exist realms/dimensions beyond current human comprehension.......(at least mine anywho)...that include more/less than nothing and or something, (nothing was created so there could be something... imo....grin)
grin...
gogh
Hi SW,
imho, God did not create evil, but gave his creations knowledge and free will.
Some CHOSE to abuse that.
That is a choice we must all make, to serve the true God or....
The definitive answer is the scriptures:
(James 1:13)...” For with evil things God cannot be tried nor does he himself try anyone."
agape,
James
I found an interesting article on opposites.
http://www.humantruth.info/opposites.html
I think we think that opposite ends of spectrums are necessarily opposites; but this is entirely subjective.
Good and Evil
What is good for one being is frequently bad for another. For example in nature the whole cycle of biological life is based on death and recycling. Hence why major religions have historically been based around these themes, especially vegetation gods who rise every Winter Solstice. All predators find it good that prey is available; if you protect the prey you harm the predators, and whilst it is bad from the prey's point of view to be eaten, it is necessary from the predators point of view. In nature, natural survival is violent and competitive.
Bacteria feed on biological chemicals to survive and breed. What is good for them is bad for us. While antibiotics are good for us and reduce our suffering, their usage create suffering and death for countless other minor species. What is good for one species is bad for others. While one culture may consider multiple marriage to be a virtue of love and positivity, another considers it an evil sin. What is good in one culture is bad in another. What was good in the Old Testament of the Christian Bible is bad in the New, what is good in the Buddhist Pali scriptures is wrong in the Therevada, what is considered an ethic by one group in society is considered wrong in another. What the homeless rightly do to survive is a "social evil" to those with homes, and how governments collect tax is evil to the poor person but a social necessity. Good and Evil are impossibly complex, inherently subjectivist. There are no actions that are good for everyone, and there are no actions that are bad for all species.
We claim to know what is good and evil...so we claim to be gods. Gen 3, I think, says otherwise. That's why we're in the fix we're in today. YHWH said: "Fine. You made the decision...do what ya gotta do."
So, here we are with all this moral authority. What has it gotten us?
gus
The definitive answer is the scriptures:
(James 1:13)...” For with evil things God cannot be tried nor does he himself try anyone."
Hi James, I agree with James too. Maybe my question was on the same level as the professor. In other words, before we start quoting scripture, first base is usually arrived at through some sort of logic. In other words, if there isn't a basis for agreement, you'll be spinning your wheels getting to second.
But when I look the above so-called conversation between the professor and Einstein, it leads me to believe the whole thing was cooked up by some guy out to prove some wishful end to his own argument.
In fact, I doubt such a conversation between a student and his professor would exist. Professors are a little stupid but not that stupid. And students who are that committed to their faith are usually not all that logical. However, I find even this argument lacking logic because the so-called Einstein student supplanted evil as the opposite to God, whereas evil would more likely be the opposite to good. A devil, on the other hand would be opposite to God.
Just mho
sw
Good and Evil Good and Evil are impossibly complex, inherently subjectivist. There are no actions that are good for everyone, and there are no actions that are bad for all species.
We claim to know what is good and evil...so we claim to be gods. Gen 3, I think, says otherwise. That's why we're in the fix we're in today. YHWH said: "Fine. You made the decision...do what ya gotta do."
So, here we are with all this moral authority. What has it gotten us?
gus
Oh, but my friend gus, I hope you aren't metamorphosizing into a Buddhist monk, ha-ha. "Oh but there is good in all. And there is evil too, and they are the same, except they are different in ways that are similar, somewhat related, yet differing in some other way while being the same so that in differing ways they are the same. Do you understand? You see, death is really not the opposite to life. It is a continuation of that which has not arrived in full consciousness, but will, and if you still do not understand, please chant a little longer until it is revealed from within. If you need a little LSD to assist, well ... hmmm, I have a little tucked away from the '60's."
But don't get me wrong, I agree with your pragmatic approach.
sw
Ah, Grasshopper! What is Buddhist but the absence of Catholic? What is Catholic but the absence of Methodist? What is Methodist but an absence of Jehovah's Witness? All part of the great circle of life!
In a world of "opposites" - which don't exist - there are still coins...each of which has two sides.
gus
p.s. Such "understanding" is above my pay-grade. I am happy understanding that I don't understand.
Well I got another one. It goes like this:
This is one of the best explanations of why God allows pain and suffering that I have seen...
A man went to a barbershop to have his hair cut and his beard trimmed. As the barber began to work, they began to have a good conversation. They talked about so many things and various subjects. When they eventually touched on the subject of God, the barber said:
"I don't believe that God exists."
"Why do you say that?" asked the customer.
"Well, you just have to go out in the street to realize that God doesn't exist. Tell me, if God exists, would there be so many sick people? Would there be abandoned children? If God existed, there would be neither suffering nor pain.
I can't imagine a loving God who would allow all of these things."
The customer thought for a moment, but didn't respond because he didn't want to start an argument. The barber finished his job and the customer left the shop. Just after he left the barbershop, he saw a man in the street with long, stringy, dirty hair and an untrimmed beard. He looked dirty and unkempt. The customer turned back and entered the barber shop again and he said to the barber:
"You know what? Barbers do not exist."
"How can you say that ?" asked the surprised barber.
"I am here, and I am a barber. And I just worked on you!"
"No!" the customer exclaimed. "Barbers don't exist because if they did, there would be no people with dirty long hair and untrimmed beards, like that man outside."
"Ah, but barbers DO exist! That's what happens when people do not come to me."
"Exactly!" affirmed the customer. "That's the point! God, too, DOES exist! That's what happens when people do not go to Him and don't look to Him for help. That's why there's so much pain and suffering in the world."
If you think God exists, send this to other people---If you think God does not exist, delete it!
BE BLESSED & BE A BLESSING TO OTHERS !!!!!!!
Needless to say, I couldn't forward or delete it.
sw
Lo' Friends!
Interesting discussion
I don't think God created evil, nor did he create good: good is simply something God
is by nature. As for evil, i think God created the
potential for evil, and that potential becomes actualised according to what decisions/actions we make in the free world God created. Just as a great inventor might create a robot to choose left or right, God gave us the ability and potential to make free choices, even though our decisions are rarely right!
Not to lessen the extent of evil, but im inclined to agree with the article mentioned. We don't really have experience of things that are intrinisically evil, but things that become evil because they are a defilement of, or stand in wrong relation to the good(God).
My humble musings,
DaSheep
The Final Argument Over the Existence of God
A thought provoking message no matter how you believe.
(I took the liberty of changing it to what it honestly is, a good argument, but pure fiction.)
One day a university professor challenged his students with a question, “Did God create everything that exists?”
A student bravely replied, “Yes, he did!”
The professor answered, “Then did God create evil?” There was a long silence. The professor continued, “Because evil abounds everywhere in the world today and if we follow the principle that our works define who we are and believe that God created everything that exists, then it must be concluded God created evil.” Looking around the room at all of the stunned faces, he added, “And if this is so, I contend that if God exists, then he must be more evil than good.” Looking around at the solemn faces the professor smiled smugly, satisfied that he had proven once more that all such faith was a myth.
Another student raised his hand. “Can I ask you a question, professor?”
“Of course.”
“Does cold exist?”
“What kind of question is that?” he replied, turning to the open window. “Are you cold? Need I shut the window for you?” The rest of the class snickered.
“Well sir, if cold does exist, then according to the laws of physics, we were wrong to conclude that cold is the absence of heat. For instance, absolute zero (- 460 degrees F) only results when all matter becomes inert and incapable of reaction because of it lack of any temperature. So I contend that cold does not exist and that we have created this word to describe how we feel in the absence of heat.”
By now the professor had walked closer to the student and all eyes followed him. He was speechless. Another student asked, “Can I ask a question, professor?”
“Go ahead,” he replied, turning in thoughtful quietude.
“Does darkness exist?”
The professor pondered for a moment. “Well, in view of the present discussion, perhaps you should answer that question.”
“Then I contend, sir, that if cold is the absence of heat, darkness is the absence of light. More than that, using Newton’s prism to break white light into many colours, we can study the wavelengths of each colour. And if a simple ray of light can illuminate a world of darkness, how would we measure darkness unless light were used to demonstrate how dark a place might be? So I contend that we invented darkness to explain the absence of light.”
As all eyes remained upon the professor he turned and walked to the head of the lecture hall. There he wrote upon the blackboard the words ‘Good’ and ‘Evil.’
“I suppose then,” he began slowly and deliberately. “This should be the next question—Does evil really exist? Or is it only a word created in the absence of good? I’ve often contemplated this since Biblical studies and their explanations have always left me cold. But going further, and if God does indeed exist, I would contend that even the term devil was a word created for the absence of God so that any intelligent entity denying the existence of God would make its own existence irrelevant to that of God. Good reasoning, students! Class dismissed!”
The professor was subsequently suspended for teaching theology in a political science class.
Love,
sw
