Paradise Café Discussions A Place For Bible Research And Christian Encouragement

Hi everyone

Revelation 11:3-5
And I will give power to my two witnesses, and they will prophesy for 1,260 days, clothed in sackcloth."
These are the two olive trees and the two lampstands that stand before the Lord of the earth.
If anyone tries to harm them, fire comes from their mouths and devours their enemies.
This is how anyone who wants to harm them must die.

Revelation 11:11-12
But after the three and a half days a breath of life from God entered them, and they stood on their feet, and terror struck those who saw them.
Then they heard a loud voice from heaven saying to them, "Come up here."
And they went up to heaven in a cloud, while their enemies looked on.

I have always assumed that the resurrection of the two witnesses is a pubic event, or at the very least an event witnessed by some; namely said enemies.

But who are the enemies that are devoured & who see the resurrection of the two witnesses?

I have an idea in mind but was hoping someone else might be thinking along the same lines..

It's over to you folks!

Agape Johnny

Hey Johnny!
I have too literal a mind for prophecy that's so symbolic, and I think parts of John's revelations echo each other and are perhaps the same events described in different perspectives... or something, lol. So I have no answer - just something more to throw out there, and purely hypothetical...

Not long ago I read a postulation on the internet(and there's plenty of those!) about the identity of the two witnesses that kind of made some sense to me, that they could be, like the 2 sheepfolds becoming one, individuals of Jew and Gentile Christians. That would be a powerful concerted witness. They would be everywhere in churches, synagogues and places of worship all over the globe. Going with that line of thought, they would surely be ostrasized by their respective religious leaders if(if? lol) their prophecies convict apostate religion. Maybe governmental agencies if what they're prophesying is doom to earthly goverments. Those 2 groups would do anything to shut them up and conceal their rottenness. The enemies within close proximity to them would be devoured by the flames and that sounds like death to me, or utter defeat. But the enemies who watch them resurrected to heaven would be all others with the same mind - enemies of God and Jesus and those who love them. ???

I've always had in the back of my mind that this bout of prophesying was the 'last call' to humankind living then to repent of wickedness in all forms. The '2 witnesses' will tell what's gonna happen if they don't repent, then it'll happen 'bing-bam-boom'. I think lots of people will be saved at that time, and they might be those 'eleventh hour workers'. Whole-hearted repentance is the point of it all.

But then...
Hope this doesn't confuse your good question. It was just something that I'd never heard before and hoped it was the tiniest bit relevant. Plenty of wanna-be prophets have vied for various titles for a couple thousand years... I'm at the seein's believin' stage, lol!

Love to you little brother
Willa

Hi all..

I rather go with the thought of the two witnesses being the two testaments of God's word... who have borne their testimony to all the Nations... they were adorned in sackcloth... that is, in the dead languages whereby the priestcraft of CAtholicism sought to keep them hid from the eyes of the public. Certainly, all who have made themselves enemies of the Bible pay dearly... and carry that infamous reputation with them to the grave.

I believe the time period attached (42 months) is the same as the 1260 days of Daniel... 42 X 30 = 1260... It is also shows as the three days and a half of vs. 9.

I believe this is descriptive of past events whereby the false truth taught by the sects was exposed and brought low, and the truth as we know it was then able to come forth, even though many of its avenues we each fail to see eye to eye one.

respectfully
\
jon

Sorry, My mind stopped here and I just about dislocated my entire ribcage. There was a time we examined navels too
Agape,
sw

Yes SW, I believe God will resurrect the two witnesses by means of the holy hot wax, come to think of it, my navel is a hairy wilderness all its own, but I will not bend my knee to the false prophet Veet!

Agape Johnny

OK back to the topic..

Luke 10:18-20
He replied, "I saw Satan fall like lightning from heaven. I have given you authority to trample on snakes and scorpions and to overcome all the power of the enemy; nothing will harm you. However, do not rejoice that the spirits submit to you, but rejoice that your names are written in heaven."

This scripture got me thinking..
Yeshuah/Jesus is talking about Satan & his demons here, but when he mentions the enemy is he referring to the demons or some other enemy(s)?

Could it be that the enemys described at Revelation 11, that witness the resurrection of the two witnesses, are in fact the demons?

Agape Johnny

Could be. Once the two witnesses are resurrected then they are more dangerous to the demons.
Romans 16:20
The God of peace will soon crush Satan under your feet. The grace of our Lord Jesus Christ be with you.

vicky

Hi Johnny

We have to bear in mind that Revelation 11 is full of rich Jewish and Christian symbolism.

In just one short chapter, you have reference or allusion to...

- Zechariah's account of Jerusalem being measured by an angel
- Jesus' prophecy of Jerusalem being trampled by the Gentiles
- Zechariah's account of two witnesses Joshua and Zerubbabel who were two olive trees, and standing before the Lord of the earth
- The miracles of Moses and Elijah
- Elijah's 3.5 years of drought, during the reigns of wicked king Ahab and his wife Jezebel, who attempted to have all of Jehovah's prophets killed
- A beast from the abyss (tackled later in Revelation)
- The ministry of Jesus Christ (3.5 years) and the manner of his resurrection
- The ascension to heaven of Jesus Christ
- The tenth of the city, as a holy "tithe" and "stump", as referenced by Isaiah
- 7,000 people, the same number who didn't bow the knee to Baal, in Elijah's day
- The Temple and Ark of the Covenant seen in heaven!

As you can see, this is a huge amount of symbolism compacted into one small chapter.

The passage is not meant to be taken literally, but is symbolizing real events that did actually happen.

During the period of the "great tribulation" during 66-73AD, the Romans invaded Jerusalem and from 70AD they trampled the Temple by God's permission.

However, it was a time of distress upon the Jews, as they were slaughtered both in Jerusalem, and in many parts of the Empire.

It was time of trouble for Christians, too. Nero had spent many years killing Christians, until he died suddenly in 68AD, plunging the Empire into turmoil and civil war.

However, with Nero's death, the Jewish Christians safely out of Jerusalem, and with the Roman empire in its death throes, God demonstrated that He was ultimately in control, by seating Vespasian upon the government of Rome (just as He had done for Nebuchadnezzar).

All of God's prophecies had come true - the ones against Jerusalem and the Temple at the mouth of Jesus and Daniel, the ones towards Vespasian and the Roman empire (however unlikely it seemed at the time) at the mouth of Josephus.

So there were no literal "two witnesses" at the time, going round breathing fire. But there were two groups of people - Jewish and Gentile Christians, who stood as a powerful witness during the time of 70-73AD that God's word is true - and even the Roman emperor who had formerly been prosecuting the Jewish war, was witness to the power of God.

So if we understand the historical context underlying Revelation 11, we can understand the symbology.

When God gave rulership of the world to Vespasian, he was repeating what he had done earlier to Nebuchadnezzar - He was demonstrating that God was ruling as King.