Paradise Café Discussions A Place For Bible Research And Christian Encouragement

The last one and roughly 3 or 4 months I have known you all from Robert King's site. I have become so used to seeing you on the board and sharing your thoughts.In short you all are a great help, Robert has been one great help too. He was the one who opened my eyes to the doings of the Watchtower (so called) Bible & tract Society. Thank you all.

Through my research on the net and studying of Scriptures I have come to the conclusion that the WTBS is a fraud and I had been duped into supporting it. In fact I am worried as to whether my baptism is real or not?

Was I baptised in the name of the Father, Son & the Holy Spirit as commanded by Jesus or in the name of a Coorporation? I was baptised in 1978, when they had not modified the baptismal oath. But what was that oath a blind faith on a commercial organization?

So tell me what should I do there are many questions that I want to ask. And if you will allow me to ask them I would like to go one by one.
The first is do I need to be baptised again? And if yes whom should I go to? I ask this because I am no longer a so called witness, at least in my mind and heart I am no longer that. I believe in Yehshua or Jesus in his Father and working out of the Holy Spirit. I believe the Bible to be the only Word of God.

And Jesus to be the one and only way to salvation. Please tell me what should I do?

Perplexed

F.Zubair

Ive found this brother to be helpful
http://perimeno.ca/Dedication.htm

Excerpt:

We DO believe in the ransom. We exercise faith in it and teach others to do likewise. We have repented of our former course of life and KNOW that we get forgiveness of sins and gain life because of Jesus' shed blood. We are baptized in obedience to the command to do so. Those are God's requirements and therefore Jehovah accepts our baptism and we are able to enjoy a relationship with him. He does not take into consideration any other requirements that we have attached to this. But because of going "beyond what is written" we have caused serious problems that Jehovah will address in his own due time. (1Cor. 4:6)

The nation of Israel became God's covenant people at Mt Sinai where Jehovah gave them the Law through Moses. He told them, "You must not add to the word that I am commanding you, neither must you take away from it, so as to keep the commandments of Jehovah your God that I am commanding you." (Deuteronomy 4:2; 12:32) By the time Jesus came the religious leaders had added considerably to God's law. Jesus said that they had "seated themselves in the seat of Moses" and thus had placed "heavy loads" on the people. In so doing they had also made the word of God invalid. (Mathew 23:2-5; 15:3-9) Yet, they were still his people.

We have become guilty of doing the same thing. Some of those who were given the responsibility to feed God’s household, have also seated themselves in "the seat of Moses" (now Jesus' seat, the greater Moses). They have added to God's word, placed heavy loads upon the sheep, and made God's word invalid in so many different ways. We can be certain that if Jehovah and his Son condemned that in the first century they still condemn it today.

Ask yourself honestly, what did (or does) your baptism mean to you?

Greetings, Farhat!

Good questions, one and all. While most of us were not spiritually-mature men and women when we got dunked, our baptisms represented a new course of life for us. No longer "living for the flesh," we began a spiritual journey which, thus far, has led us here. For one, I am thankful for the watchtower! It has taught me more about myself than a hundred psychology degrees could ever teach me. I am also thankful for Robert King and his e-jw site. Each step of the journey has led me to where I am...a good place.

I don't remember much about my baptism in 1981. Lots of hoopla and back-slapping and such. But I remember meditating long and hard prior to the big day, to the best of my ability at that time. I was an adult and I was not baptized into the organization called Jehovah's Witnesses. That is where I landed for a time; but I made no vow to any man to remain with him regardless of the course he took.

Good enough, I say! It's not where you start that matters, but where you end up and how you got there!

gus

Bro Fzubair

As you were baptized in 1978 prior to the new wording, I'd feel - as I do anyway as mine was 1971 - that your baptism was solely to Jehovah, Jesus and the holy spirit.

If I had been 'dunked' with the newer wording 'ínto the organization', or similiar, then I would be having second serious thoughts.

Love,
Tessa

Dear Brother Fzubair, you do not need to get baptised again. Why? Let me reason. If you were married in a church and later found out it was not living up to the standard of the true church of Christ would that make your marriage invalid? NO. Likewise just because you found out the Watchtower is not living up to the standard of the true church does not invalidate your baptism. I hate what the Watchtower does yet would never get baptised again. Christ knows what my vow was at baptism. Joe

I was baptized before 1978, and I too questioned the validity of my baptism. But I approached the question as John as mentioned; I asked myself what my baptism meant to me.

I did not dedicate myself to any religious organization, and though I was younger, (16 yrs. old), I do not feel I was too young to make that decision.

JWs taught us that God dioesn't accept things (prayers, baptism, etc.) unless they are performed according to acceptable procedure. I patently reject that legalism. Additionally, I feel Jehovah and Jesus can look at the totality of the circumstances of my baptism and discern my intent regardless of by whom or where it was performed.

You may decide differently Farhat...just trust your insticts.

Justy

Thankyou All,

I invite you to read with me Mathew28:19,20 "Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:
Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you:[/i]even[/i]unto the end of the world. A'men.KJV


In all of this there is not even a hint of that ever there will arise a situation where there will be a Jehovah's Witnesses like people who will come to your door and correct my dogma(Jesus) You must listen to them or else you will be cut off from my people.

No all are to be baptized in the name of the [/i]Father, Son and the Holy Ghost[/i]. JWs confused the issues by becoming he champions of Bible dogma. They are not tolerant of any dissent and when it comes to questioning their laughable claims of being the only annointed ones and the rediculous self applications of the holy prophecies of the Book of Revelations they show their true colors.

They successfully steered you and me away from the true path Jesus' Cross and the Son and his supereme authority as the only Mediator. This made my transition from a monotheistic muslim to this kind of improvised religion devoid of thorny questions like Jesus' Sonship and the importance of the three elements above mentioned completely palatable

But was that Christianity NO!
The JWs are Satan's ploy. And you have to accept it and then move forward, any denying of it is travelling the mid road leading to nowhere!

"Who is a liar but he that denieth that Jesus is the Christ? He is antichrist that denieth the Father and the Son.
Whosoever denieth the Son, the same hath not the Father: [but] [/i]he that acknowledgeth the Son hath the Father also.1-John 2:22, 23

By removing the baptismal vows mentioned in the gospels the JWs have denied us the Holy Spirit and the correct view of our Lord and his purposes. The devil saw the potential in each one of us in being one of the Lord's so he pushed us into a spiritual blind alley and it was nothing but the pure love of the Word of God which has stopped us from becoming Antichrists like the witnesses.

FarhatZubair[/i]

Brother Zubair,
I read your post days ago and was wanting to offer advice but I felt that I should leave it alone because you were upset by something that I mistakenly posted about possibly forged scriptures, and I do apologize for that. I think I overwhelmed myself researching chicanery with the Bible and did something presumptuous. But the quandary you are in is something that I can relate to because I was baptized as a JW in 1973 and have been wondering about its validity.

Personally I feel as though it was a much more valid baptism than that which is now being perpetrated on JW's, with the organization replacing the Holy Spirit. The fact that we were fully immersed is very important. I do not believe there is any validity at all in the Catholic Church's Babylonian-style infant sprinkling. But there was something that always bothered me about Matthew 28:19, and its Trinitarian wording. So I asked around about this, and a good sister friend did some research and sent me this link, and I think it might help all of us in figuring out the truth about our baptisms and what they really mean. I know that it helped me a lot.

http://english.sdaglobal.org/research/mt2819.htm


Jesh

[quote=Jeshurun]
Brother Zubair,
I read your post days ago and was wanting to offer advice but I felt that I should leave it alone because you were upset by something that I mistakenly posted about possibly forged scriptures, and I do apologize for that. I think I overwhelmed myself researching chicanery with the Bible and did something presumptuous.

Dear Jesh

First of all let me express my hearfelt thanks and gratefulness to be called a brother by someone who not only professes Christianity but is willing to practice.
My response to your post was not very considerate or maybe appropriate, but you have understood its spirit rather than balked at its feroucious tone, please forgive me if I hurt you.

I appreciate your concern over the trinity beliefs. I am not a believer in trinity because the word itself is not found in the Bible. But I am not in favor of the trinity witch hunt either.

Bear with me as I explain myself to you. I ask you to refrain from the following for now:

i) Please do not go into finding the super correct dogma about Jesus, Jehovah and the Holy Ghost

I have been a witness for some 30 years, and have read here and there about support as well as criticism of the trinity doctrine.

Frankly to me it all looks like a clever satanic ploy to confuse us and confound the extremely lofty status of JESUS which is next to GOD!

Why do you think the JEWS are such strong defendants of the oneness of the GOD HEAD and why do you think the muslims their proteges are such DIEHARD MONOTHEISTS?

Read the Bible when it says in 1.John he who does not honor the Son cannot be honoring the Father. And whoever does not honor the Son is THE ANTICHRIST!!!!!

Beware of the Devil's designs my brother the link you sent me is as long as what we call in our mother tongue urdu, the intestine of Satan.
But what does this long winding research propagate?

Nothing but absolutely nothing!
It just fosters distrust in the word of God, Defeat the purposes my brother of demons and their human agents who want you to believe the Word of God is adulterated. Even if it is not a 100% as they say it is. Remember that a weak thing of God is stronger than men, Amen!May the Lord our God be glorified and proved right though everyman be proved a liar.

Have faith in God brother in his due time he will clarify everything. Remember Jesus' words about the last day when he said "Will the Son of Man really find faith in the earth?"

The Holy Scritptures DO NOT, DO NOT, DO NOT overemphasize the MONOTHEISM practiced by muslims and the so called Jews. Rather they tell you and me that Jesus WAS IN GOD's form and yet did not cosider it an opportunity to usurp that position.

Which to my mind tells that my God Jehovah was willing to share with his Son that position as suggested by the first verse of the Gospel of JOHN.

And you know very well who it is that not only try to usurp that position but also paints our beloved LORD and his CHRIST liars and their Word a pack of lies.

Beware brother and sisters LET GOD BE FOUND TRUE THOUGH EVERY MAN (and demons and their agents) BE FOUND A LIARS.

Please do not my words cause hurt to any of you brothers and sisters May God be with you all

Farhat Zubair