Paradise Cafe Discussions - A Place For Bible Research And Christian Encouragement

This question is an immediate, huge red-flag for me, because "female angels" are a staple of one particular modern-day, Satanic, New-Age influenced, false-Christian cult. When Scriptures speak of angels, in every case they are pictured as men. With this in mind, it is good to therefore be extremely cautious before going beyond this.

The creation account of Genesis has been cited where God says, "Let us make man in our image" and where it is also written "God created man in His own image, in the image of God He created him; male and female He created them."

In considering this account, perhaps something Paul wrote might shed some light on how to understand this?

Good afternoon all ... :hibye::grouphug:

Before I go and get hubby something to eat I wanted to make a quick reply to you observant and justin ... :giverose:

I have been in the process of a huge research project, :coffeeread: that ironically touches on this very topic to some degree and so your added viewpoints are very much appreciated ... :thumbsup:

I too agree that as a bird to 'eat' the stork was considered, among many birds, as being 'unclean' ...

However, I think in the context of the scripture in Zech. 5:9 it may not be describing the 'bird' itself ... but only the 'wings' which denote 'strength and speed' ...?

I found this an interesting tidbit about the stork ... not sure if it is relevant or not ... :blush:

"Zechariah saw a vision of two women with the wings of a stork carrying the wickedness of Israel to the land of Shinar (Babylon). These stork-winged women have been interpreted as being either heavenly angels or representations of Assyria and Babylon who carried Israel into captivity (Zech 5:5-11). Jews were forbidden to eat the stork or any other wading bird (Lev 11:19; Deu 14:18). The Psalmist made this bird's home in the firs a symbol of the Lord's providence (Psa 104:16-17).

Storks were symbols of vigilance, contemplation, prudence, piety, meditation, the recluse, and chastity. Aristotle taught that the jealous male bird would put an unfaithful mate to death for her transgressions. Christians regarded the stork as a symbol for Christ and His disciples because it was the terror of snakes which represented Satan and his demons."

I clicked on that link observant ... but it didn't work for me ... :dontknow:

Dear Justin ... in what way do you view this question that was asked to me as being a 'red flag' ...?

I do know my brother that the 'new age' thinking is becoming more and more relevant ... but it was due to this person reading scriptures that caused them to asked me ... they are not 'new agers' by the by ... ;)

I put it up here so as to seek to give an answer to one asking a honest question, and me in seeking to give as complete and scriptural an answer as possible in using our 'multitude of counsellors' for help ... ;):grouphug:

I have come to the point that I try not to be so hasty in how I view certain things in which we as humans have no real knowledge of ... (heavenly things for example) and thus try not to sound too dogmatic nor dismissive so as to alienate those who are wondering about things in which we may not have had much experience in ... :blush:

That is not to say of course that I am saying it IS true ... just that I was doing some research for them ... :love:

Won't we all be so glad when FULL knowledge will abound and we won't need to be 'taught' by imperfect and limited human reasonings ... but by the Holy Spirit itself!! :thumbsup:

I have to close now to go eat and also reboot ... my computer is working really bad right now ... :shocked: and making me crazy ... :funnyface:

Luv to you both ... and all ... BR :sheepy: :bouncyhearts:

We have a family in heaven, Not just males, but a family.

Ephesians 3:14-21 (New International Version)

A Prayer for the Ephesians

14. For this reason I kneel before the Father,

15.( from whom his whole family in heaven and on earth derives its name.)

16. I pray that out of his glorious riches he may strengthen you with power through his Spirit in your inner being, 17 so that Christ may dwell in your hearts through faith. And I pray that you, being rooted and established in love, 18 may have power, together with all the saints, to grasp how wide and long and high and deep is the love of Christ, 19 and to know this love that (surpasses knowledge)—that you may be filled to the measure of all the fullness of God.
20Now to him who is able to do immeasurably more than all we ask or imagine, according to his power that is at work within us, 21 to him be glory in the church and in Christ Jesus throughout all generations, for ever and ever! amen

Very nice reply, yea we cannot be certain over very much can we?

and it is one of the best teachers we have because it makes LOVE the primary motive for fellowship and not knowledge.

Peace sis

Thank you so much my dear br. TD ... :love::giverose:

Yes, the more I study and dig into the scriptures the more I realize how much more there is yet to learn ... and how I yearn for the day when the Holy Spirit will 'teach us ALL' ... :cheer: :pray:

For example, in doing some research on this topic and others ... I have discovered something that I was quite surprised about and which has led me into a an ever deeper research which I am presently heavy into ... :read:

Raised as one of JW's I have always thought that there were only basically 4 types of 'angels' for example ...

Archangels
Seraphs
Cherubs
Angels (messengers)

But recently am discovering there may be at least TWO more types ...

Isa. 33:7 ...

(NWT) 7 Look! Their very heroes have cried out in the street; the very messengers of peace will weep bitterly.

Interesting was the comment in the footnote which led me into further researching this scripture ...

VERY briefly ... still in researching process more extensively so as to seek to 'proof all things' ... and 'testing out' ... here is a couple of things I found so far (condensed version)

Footnote

Rbi8 Isaiah 33:7

“Their very heroes.” Heb., ’er·’el·lam′; the meaning is uncertain.

Since the 'meaning was uncertain' I sought to try to look for an answer if there is one ... :read: as part of the 'digging' and 'searching' we are told to do don't ya know ... ;):whistle:

And discovered that according to the Jewish people this 'erellam' or 'Erelim' was considered a part of the heirachy structure of the angels ... :shocked:

Also, according to Ez. 1:4 ...

I saw, and behold, there was a stormy wind coming from the north, a great cloud with flashing fire and a brilliance surrounding it; and from its midst, like the color of the Hashmal [often translated electrum] from the midst of the fire, and in its midst there was the likeness of four Chayot (living creatures).

According to what I have been able to discover so far in the Hebrew Scripture understanding this ... 'Hashmallim' ... are another type of angel with specific duties and assignments just as the Cherubs and Seraphim and Archangels have ...

Soooooooooo ...

If indeed these 'are' two more types angels then I have to ask myself ...

If this is so ... and I am just now 'discovering' it ... then how much MORE have we yet to discover in the future into the heavenly part of our family of God ... :dontknow:

And since discovering and studying this topic ... I am only convinced even more to try not to be dogmatic about 'some' of what I believe ... for how can we know 'all' ... when only 'partial' is available ...

Hope I didn't scare anyone ... :shocked:

Luv BR :sheepy: :bouncyhearts:

When we hear the word "mankind", we know there are both male and female, and yet if you never saw earth, you might think mankind was a planet of men.

So when we hear "sons of God", we tend to think of all men too.

Actually, this isn't true Seraph, I'm actually reading a book right now about the Dead Sea Scrolls and angels as both male AND female. I'll post something up once I'm done it if you'd like BR...it's an interesting read and shows a possibility of half of the Seraphim as being female, as well as others. It's pretty in depth study of the Hebrew Bible, the Dead Sea Scrolls and a few other books steering away from Gnostism (because I know you aren't looking for a gnostic view). Zorastiatism (I think that's the spelling) speaks of female angels, but that's not biblical, though they share much of the Islamic, Jewish and Christian beliefs, and though new-age brings it up it is hardly a new idea, just one that has been adopted and focussed in on more with them. Anyhow, thought I'd bring it up, and let you know I'm researching this topic at this moment, and it made me think of this thread.
Also BR, there is said to be about nine hierarchies, but the man who wrote that (and was too often quoted by Saint Thomas Aquinas) was proved to be false in the hierarchies that he claimed were there. Mainly Seraphim, Cherubim, Thrones...Seraphim being mentioned in Isiah's vision and in 2 and 3 Enoch as the ones sitting under God's throne, Cherubim's being guardians of great power like over the Garden of Eden and the Ark, and Thrones who do not appear in the Hebrew Bible, and have little written everywhere about them as most of them are said to have fallen...Then there's the Dominations, Virtues and Powers (Dominations said to be the "original angels", Virtues are supposed to be in charge of miracles, and guardians like mentioned in Matthew 18 by Jesus, and the Powers as a type of police in heaven whom Paul seems to have hated with an odd passion), and finally the Principalities, Archangels and Angels (Principalities as defenders of faith, Archangels as chief angels, and just angels as regular messengers of God). Ambrose is thought to have had more accurate research on the matter...but I digress. I'll finish and research some and see if I can't get more info on this for you BR. :read: