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Im an Anti Trinitarian, However, i have come to view Jesus Christ as something different than JW's

Some Interesting scriptures.

Jesus as the creator of all things


Gen 1:26-27-Then God said, "Let us make man in our image, according to our likeness..." And God created man in His own image, in the image of God He created him.

Is 44:24-Thus says the Lord [Jehovah], your Redeemer, and the one who formed you from the womb, "I, the Lord [Jehovah], am the maker of all things, stretching out the heavens by Myself, and spreading out the earth all alone..."

John 1:3-All things came into being by Him [the Word], and apart from Him nothing came into being that has come into being.

Rom 11:36-God...For from Him and through Him and to Him are all things.

John 1:10-He [Jesus] was in the world, and the world was made through Him, and the world did not know Him.

Eph 3:9-...God, who created all things...

Col 1:15-16-And He [Jesus] is the image of the invisible God, the first-born [cp. Ps 89:27, Gen 41:51-52, Jer 31:9] of all creation. For [Gr. because] by him all things were created, both in the heavens and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or rulers or authorities-all things have been created by Him and for Him.

Heb 1:8,10-But of the Son...He also says, "In the beginning, O Lord, you laid the foundations of the earth, and the heavens are the work of your hands. They will perish, but you remain; they will all wear out like a garment. You will roll them up like a robe; like a garment they will be changed. But you remain the same, and your years will never end."

Heb 3:3-4-For He [Jesus] has been counted worthy of more glory than Moses, by just so much as the builder of a house has more honor than the house. For every house is built by someone, but the builder of all things is God.



Jesus as the sustainer of all things

Col 1:17-He [Jesus] is before all things, and in Him all things hold together.

Heb 1:3-And He [Jesus] is the radiance of His glory and the exact representation of His nature, and upholds all things by the word of His power.



Jesus as the Savior


Is 43:11-"I, even I, am the Lord [Jehovah]; and there is no savior besides Me."

Is 45:21-"Is it not I, the Lord [Jehovah]? And there is no other God besides Me, a righteous God and a Savior; there is none except Me."

Hos 13:4-"I...the Lord [Jehovah] your God...there is no savior besides Me."

Titus 1:3-God our Savior

Titus 1:4-Christ Jesus our Savior

Titus 2:13-looking for the blessed hope and the appearing of the glory of our great God and Savior, Christ Jesus

Titus 3:4-God our Savior

Titus 3:6-Jesus Christ our Savior

2 Pet 1:1-to those who have received a faith of the same kind as ours, by the righteousness of our God and Savior, Jesus Christ:



Jesus as the giver of things of God

John 1:12-13-But as many as received Him [Jesus], to them He gave the right to become children of God, [even] to those who believe in His name, who were born not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.

Rev 2:23-the churches will know that I [Jesus] am He who searches the minds and hearts; and I will give to each one of you according to your deeds.



Jesus has authority to forgive sins

Mark 2:5-7,10-And Jesus seeing their faith said to the paralytic, "My son, your sins are forgiven." But there were some of the scribes sitting there and reasoning in their hearts, "Why does this man speak that way? He is blaspheming; who can forgive sins but God alone?" "...the Son of Man has authority on earth to forgive sins"

Luke 5:21-And the scribes and the Pharisees began to reason, saying, "Who is this man who speaks blasphemies? Who can forgive sins, but God alone?"

Luke 5:24-"the Son of Man has authority on earth to forgive sins"

1 Cor 8:12-And thus, by sinning against the brethren and wounding their conscience when it is weak, you sin against Christ.

Eph 4:32-And be kind to one another, tender-hearted, forgiving each other, just as God in Christ also has forgiven you.



Jesus has authority to judge men and How this should this affect one's response to Him


John 5:22,23-"For not even the Father judges anyone, but He has given all judgment to the Son, in order that all may honor the Son, even as they honor the Father. He who does not honor the Son does not honor the Father who sent Him.

2 Cor 5:10-For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ


Jesus as all-seeing

1 Ki 8:39-"Thou [Jehovah] alone dost know the hearts of all the sons of men"

Rev 2:23-"all the churches will know that I [Jesus] am He who searches the minds and hearts; and I will give to each one of you according to your deeds."



Jesus as all-knowing


1 Ki 8:39-"Thou [Jehovah] alone dost know the hearts of all the sons of men"

Matt 9:4-knowing their thoughts, Jesus said, "Why do you entertain evil thoughts in your hearts?"

Matt 12:25-Jesus knew their thoughts and said to them...

Mark 2:8-Immediately Jesus knew in his spirit that this was what they were thinking in their hearts...

Luke 6:8-But Jesus knew what they were thinking...

Luke 9:47-Jesus, knowing their thoughts...

John 11:11-"Our friend Lazarus has fallen asleep; but I am going there to wake him up."

Col 2:2-3-Christ, in whom are hidden ALL the treasures of wisdom and knowledge.

Rev 2:23-"...all the churches will know that I [Jesus] am He who searches the minds and hearts; and I will give to each one of you according to your deeds. [cp. 1 Ki 8:39]"



Jesus as omnipresent


Matt 18:20-"For where two or three are gathered in my name, there am I in the midst of them."

Matt 28:20-"And surely I am with you always, to the very end of the age."



Jesus eternally preexistent


Micah 5:2-"Bethlehem...out of you will come...ruler over Israel, whose goings out are from of old, from days of eternity."

John 1:1-In the beginning was the Word [Creation is not mentioned until vs.3]

Col 1:17-He is before ALL things

Heb 7:3-[Melchizedek]...having neither beginning of days...like the Son of God



Jesus never changing


Heb 1:8,10-But of the Son...He also says, "In the beginning, O Lord, you laid the foundations of the earth, and the heavens are the work of your hands. They will perish, but you remain; they will all wear out like a garment. You will roll them up like a robe; like a garment they will be changed. But you remain the same, and your years will never end."

Heb 13:8-Jesus Christ is the same yesterday and today and forever.



Serving Jesus


John 12:26-"If anyone serves Me [Jesus], let him follow Me; and where I am, there shall My servant also be; if anyone serves Me, the Father will honor him."

Rom 1:1-Paul, a servant of Jesus Christ

1 Cor 4:1-Let a man regard us in this manner, as servants of Christ

2 Cor 5:15-they who live should no longer live for themselves, but for Him who died and rose again on their behalf

Gal 1:10-If I were still pleasing men, I should not be a servant of Christ.

Phil 1:1-Paul and Timothy, bond-servants of Christ Jesus.

Col 3:24-It is the Lord Christ whom you serve

Col 4:12-Epaphras, who is one of yourselves, a servant of Christ Jesus

Jas 1:1-James, a servant of God and of the Lord Jesus Christ

Jude 1-Jude, a servant of Jesus Christ



praying to Jesus?

John 14:14-"If you ask Me [Kingdom Interlinear] anything in My name, I will do it."

Acts 7:59-60-And they went on stoning Stephen as he called upon [the Lord] and said, "Lord Jesus, receive my spirit!" And falling on his knees, he cried out with a loud voice, "Lord, do not hold this sin against them!" And having said this, he fell asleep.

Acts 9:14-"and here he has authority from the chief priests to bind all who call upon thy [Jesus'-vs. 17] name."

Acts 9:20-21-and immediately he [Saul] [began] to proclaim Jesus in the synagogues, saying, "He is the Son of God." And all those hearing him continued to be amazed, saying, "Is this not he who in Jerusalem destroyed those who called on this name, and [who] had come here for the purpose of bringing them bound before the chief priests?"

Acts 22:16-"Arise, and be baptized, and wash away your sins, calling on His [Jesus'] name."

Acts 22:17-19-"And it came about when I returned to Jerusalem and was praying...I saw Him [Jesus] saying to me...And I said 'Lord...'"

Rom 10:9,11-13-confess Jesus as Lord...For the Scripture says, "Whoever believes in Him will not be disappointed"...the same Lord is Lord of all, abounding in riches for all who call upon Him; for "Whoever will call upon the name of the Lord will be saved."

1 Cor 1:2-to the church of God which is at Corinth, to those who have been sanctified in Christ Jesus, saints by calling, with all who in every place call upon the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, their [Lord] and ours:

2 Cor 12:8-9-Three times I besought the Lord about this, that it should leave me; but he said to me, "My grace is sufficient for you, for my power is made perfect in weakness." I will all the more gladly boast of my weaknesses, that the power of Christ may rest upon me.

1 Ti 1:12-I thank Christ Jesus our Lord, who has strengthened me...

Rev 22:20-Amen. Come, Lord Jesus!



Give glory to Jesus


Is 42:8-"I am the Lord [Jehovah]; that is my name! I will not give my glory to another."

Is 48:11-"I [Jehovah] will not yield my glory to another."

Dan 7:13-14-I kept looking in the night visions, and behold, with the clouds of heaven one like a Son of Man was coming, and He came up to the Ancient of Days and was presented before Him. And to Him was given dominion, glory, and a kingdom, that all the peoples, nations, and [men of every] language might serve Him.

John 1:14-And the Word became flesh, and dwelt among us, and we beheld His glory, glory as of the only begotten from the Father, full of grace and truth.

John 5:22-23-"Moreover, the Father judges no one, but has entrusted all judgment to the Son, that all may honor the Son just as they honor the Father. He who does not honor the Son does not honor the Father, who sent him."

John 11:4-"This sickness is not unto death, but for the glory of God, that the Son of God may be glorified by it."

John 13:31-32-Now is the Son of Man glorified, and God is glorified in Him; if God is glorified in Him, God will also glorify Him in Himself, and will glorify Him immediately.

John 16:13-15-"But when He, the Spirit of truth, comes...He shall glorify Me [Jesus]; for He shall take of Mine, and shall disclose [it] to you. All things that the Father has are Mine; therefore I said, that He takes of Mine, and will disclose [it] to you."

John 17:5-"And now, Father, glorify me in your presence with the glory I had with you before the world began."

Acts 3:13-"The God of Abraham, and of Isaac, and of Jacob, the God of our forefathers, has glorified His servant Jesus."

Phil 2:9-Therefore also God highly exalted Him, and bestowed on Him the name which is above every name

Col 1:16-all things were created by him [Jesus] and for him

2 Thess 1:12-...in order that the name of our Lord Jesus may be glorified in you...

2 Pet 3:18-but grow in the grace and knowledge of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ. To Him be the glory, both now and to the day of eternity. Amen.

Rev 1:5-6-and from Jesus Christ, the faithful witness, the first-born from the dead, and the ruler of the kings of the earth. To Him who loves us, and released us from our sins by His blood, and He has made us [to be] a kingdom, priests to His God and Father; to Him [be] the glory and the dominion forever and ever. Amen.

Rev 5:11-14-And I looked, and I heard the voice of many angels around the throne and the living creatures and the elders; and the number of them was myriads of myriads, and thousands of thousands, saying with a loud voice, "Worthy is the Lamb that was slain to receive power and riches and wisdom and might and honor and glory and blessing." And every created thing which is in heaven and on the earth and under the earth and on the sea, and all things in them, I heard saying, "To Him who sits on the throne, and to the Lamb, [be] blessing and honor and glory and dominion forever and ever." And the four living creatures kept saying, "Amen." And the elders fell down and worshiped.



Is it proper to worship Jesus?

Matt 2:2-Magi from the east came to Jerusalem and asked, "Where is the one who has been born king of the Jews? We saw his star in the east and have come to worship him."

Matt 2:8-He [Herod] sent them to Bethlehem and said, "Go and make a careful search for the child. As soon as you find him, report to me, so that I too may go and worship him."

Matt 2:11-On coming to the house, they [the magi] saw the child with his mother Mary, and they bowed down and worshiped him.

Matt 4:10-Then Jesus said to him, "Begone, Satan! For it is written, 'You shall worship the Lord [Jehovah] your God, and serve Him only.'" [Quote from Deut 6:13]

Matt 14:33-Then those who were in the boat worshiped him, saying, "Truly you are the Son of God."

Matt 28:9-Suddenly Jesus met them [the women]. "Greetings," he said. They came to him, clasped his feet and worshiped him.

Matt 28:16-17-Then the eleven disciples went to Galilee, to the mountain where Jesus had told them to go. When they saw him, they worshiped him...

John 9:38-Then the man said, "Lord, I believe," and he worshiped him. [He recognized Jesus as the Son of Man-vs. 35]

Heb 1:6-And again, when God brings his firstborn into the world, he says, "Let all God's angels worship him."

Rev 5:8-And when he had taken it, the four living creatures and the twenty-four elders fell down before the Lamb.

Rev 14:7-He said in a loud voice, "Fear God and give him glory, because the hour of his judgment has come. Worship him who made the heavens, the earth, the sea and the springs of water."




Jesus is worshiped many times in the New Testament; the worshipers are never rebuked. An angel is worshiped twice in the New Testament [Rev 19:10, 22:8-9]; the worshiper is rebuked both times. Peter is worshiped once [Acts 10:25]; the worshiper is rebuked.



Jesus as Lord


Deut 10:17-For the Lord [Jehovah] your God is God of gods and Lord of lords...

Matt 12:8-For the Son of Man is Lord of the Sabbath

John 20:27-28-Thomas said to him [Jesus], "My Lord and my God!" Jesus said to him, "Because you have seen Me, have you believed? Blessed [are] they who did not see, and [yet] believed."

Rom 10:9,11-13-confess Jesus as Lord...For the Scripture says, "Whoever believes in Him will not be disappointed"...the same Lord is Lord of all, abounding in riches for all who call upon Him; for "Whoever will call upon the name of the Lord will be saved."

Eph 4:4-5-[There is]...one Lord

James 2:1-My brothers, as believers in our glorious Lord Jesus Christ...

Rev 17:14-the Lamb...he is Lord of lords and King of kings

Rev 19:16-On his robe and on his thigh he has this name written: King of kings and Lord of lords...



Is Jesus sovereign?

Matt 25:31-"When the Son of Man comes in his glory, and all the angels with him, he will sit on his throne in heavenly glory."

Matt 28:18-"All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me."

John 3:31-"He who comes from above is above all, he who is of the earth is from the earth and speaks of the earth. He who comes from heaven is above all."

John 3:35-"The Father loves the Son and has placed everything in his hands."

John 13:3-[Jesus], knowing that the Father had given all things into His hands...

John 16:15-"All that belongs to the Father is mine. That is why I said the Spirit will take from what is mine and make it known to you."

John 17:10-"All I have is yours [the Father's], and all you have is mine."

Phil 2:9-11-Therefore God highly exalted Him, and bestowed on Him the name which is above every name, that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of those who are in heaven, and on earth, and under the earth, and that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.

Heb 1:2-his Son, whom he appointed heir of all things

Heb 2:8-In putting everything under him, God left nothing that is not subject to him.

Rev 22:3-The throne [singular] of God and of the Lamb will be in the city, and his servants will serve him.



How was Jesus' claim to be the Son of God understood by His listeners?


John 5:18-This is why the Jews sought all the more to kill him, because he not only broke the Sabbath but also called God his own Father, making himself equal with God.

John 10:28-33-"...no one shall snatch them out of My hand...no one is able to snatch [them] out of the Father's hand. I and the Father are one." The Jews took up stones again to stone him. Jesus answered them, "I have shown you many good works from the Father; for which of these do you stone me?" The Jews answered him, "It is not for a good work that we stone you but for blasphemy; because you, being a man, make yourself God."

John 10:36-"Why then do you accuse me of blasphemy because I said, 'I am God's Son'?"



Is Jesus referred to as God?

Deut 32:36,39-the Lord [Jehovah]..."See now that I, I am He, and there is no god besides Me..."

Is 9:6-And he [Jesus] will be called Wonderful Counselor, Mighty God, Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace.

Is 10:21-A remnant will return, a remnant of Jacob will return to the Mighty God [Jehovah].

Is 43:10-the Lord [Jehovah]..."Before me no god was formed, nor will there be one after me."

Is 44:6-This is what the Lord [Jehovah] says-Israel's King and redeemer, the Lord [Jehovah] Almighty: "I am the first and I am the last; apart from me there is no God."

Is 48:12-"I [Jehovah] am the first and I am the last"

Rev 1:17-18-"Do not be afraid. I [Jesus] am the First and the Last. I am the Living One; I was dead, and behold I am alive for ever and ever!"

Rev 2:8-These are the words of him who is the First and the Last, who died and came to life again.

Rev 21:6-7-"I am the Alpha and the Omega, the Beginning and the End...I will be his God"

Rev 22:12-13,20-"Behold, I am coming quickly...I am the Alpha and the Omega, the first and the last, the beginning and the end." Amen. Come, Lord Jesus.

Rev 22:13-16-"I am the Alpha and the Omega, the First and the Last, the Beginning and the End...I, Jesus, have sent my angel..."

Matt 1:23-Immanuel-which means, "God with us" [cp. Is 7:14]

Matt 13:41-The Son of Man will send forth HIS angels

John 1:1-In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God [Gr. God was the Word].

John 2:19,21-Jesus answered them, "Destroy this temple, and I will raise it again in three days." But the temple he had spoken of was his body.

Acts 2:24-"God raised him from the dead"

John 5:18-For this reason the Jews tried all the harder to kill him; not only was he breaking the Sabbath, but he was even calling God his own Father, making himself equal with God.

John 8:19-"You know neither Me, nor My Father; if you knew Me, you would know My Father also."

John 8:28-"When you have lifted up the Son of Man, then you will know that I AM [Gr. ego eimi-cp. Ex 3:14; LXX-no "he" in Gr.]"

Ex 3:14-God said to Moses, "I AM who I AM. This is what you are to say to the Israelites: 'I AM has sent me to you.'"

John 8:58-59-"I tell you the truth," Jesus answered, "before Abraham was born, I AM! [Gr. no "he"-cp. Ex 3:14; LXX]" At this, they picked up stones to stone him...

Five legal cases for stoning:

1) spirit mediums [Lev 20:27]

2) cursing (blasphemy) [Lev 24:10-23]

3) false prophets [Deut 13:5-10]

4) stubborn son [Deut 21:18-21]

5) adultery or rape [Deut 22:21-24, Lev 20:10]

John 10:28-33-"...no one shall snatch them out of My hand...no one is able to snatch [them] out of the Father's hand. I and the Father are one." Again the Jews picked up stones to stone him, but Jesus said to them, "I have shown you many great miracles from the Father. For which of these do you stone me?" "We are not stoning you for any of these," replied the Jews, "but for blasphemy, because you, a mere man, claim to be God."

John 12:44-And Jesus cried out and said, "He who believes in Me does not believe in Me, but in Him who sent Me."

John 13:19-"From now on I am telling you before [it] comes to pass, so that when it does occur, you may believe that I AM [Gr. ego eimi-cp. Ex 3:14; LXX].

John 14:7-9-"If you had known Me, you would have known My Father also; from now on you know Him, and have seen Him...Have I been so long with you, and [yet] you have not come to know Me, Philip? He who has seen Me has seen the Father; how do you say, 'Show us the Father'?"

John 15:13-"Greater love has no one than this, that one lay down his life for his friends."

John 18:4-6-Jesus therefore, knowing all the things that were coming upon Him, went forth, and said to them, "Whom do you seek?" They answered Him, "Jesus the Nazarene." He said to them, "I AM [Gr. ego eimi]." And Judas also who was betraying Him, was standing with them. When therefore He said to them, "I AM [Gr. ego eimi]," they drew back, and fell to the ground.

John 20:28,29-Thomas said to him, "My Lord and my God!" Then Jesus told him, "Because you have seen me, you have believed; blessed are those who have not seen and yet have believed."

Acts 20:28-Be shepherds of the church of God, which he bought with his own blood.

Eph 3:19-and to know the love of Christ which surpasses knowledge, that you may be filled up to all the fulness of God.

Phil 2:6-Christ Jesus: Who, being in the form of God...

Col 2:9-For in Christ ALL the fullness of the Deity [or, Godhead] lives in bodily form

1 Ti 3:15-16-God's household, which is the church of the living God, the pillar and foundation of the truth. Beyond all question, the mystery of godliness is great: He appeared in a body...

Titus 2:13-while we wait for the blessed hope-the glorious appearing of our great God and Savior, Jesus Christ.

Heb 1:3-The Son is the radiance of God's glory and the exact representation of his being, sustaining all things by his powerful word.

Heb 1:4-So he became as much superior to the angels as the name he has inherited is superior to theirs.

See Q20

Heb 1:8-But about the Son he says, "Your throne, O God, will last for ever and ever..."

Ps 45:6-"Your throne, O God, will last for ever and ever."

Heb 3:1-4-Jesus...He...as the builder of the house...the builder of all things is God.

2 Pet 1:1-To those who through the righteousness of our God and Savior Jesus Christ have received a faith as precious as ours...

1 John 5:20-We know also that the Son of God has come and has given us understanding, so that we may know him who is true. And we are in him who is true-even in his Son Jesus Christ. This is the true God and eternal life.

Rev 22:1-4-...the throne [singular] of God and of the Lamb...the throne of God and of the Lamb shall be in it, and His bond-servants shall serve Him; and they shall see His face, and His name shall be on their foreheads.



Is Jesus spoken of in the Bible as Jehovah, as is His Father?

Zech 2:8-11-For this is what the Lord [Jehovah] Almighty says: "After he has honored me and has sent me against the nations that have plundered you-for whoever touches you touches the apple of his eye-I will surely raise my hand against them so that their slaves will plunder them. Then you will know that the Lord [Jehovah] Almighty has sent me.

"Shout and be glad, O Daughter of Zion. For I am coming, and I will live among you," declares the Lord [Jehovah]. "Many nations will be joined with the Lord [Jehovah] in that day and will become my people. I will live among you and you will know that the Lord [Jehovah] Almighty has sent me to you..."

Zech 11:12-13-And I said to them, "If it is good in your sight, give [me] my wages; but if not, never mind!" So they weighed out thirty [shekels] of silver as my wages. Then the Lord [Jehovah] said to me, "Throw it to the potter, [that] magnificent price at which I was valued by them." So I took the thirty [shekels] of silver and threw them to the potter in the house of the Lord [Jehovah].

Matt 26:14-15-Then one of the twelve, named Judas Iscariot, went to the chief priests, and said, "What are you willing to give me to deliver Him [Jesus] up to you?" And they weighed out to him thirty pieces of silver.

Zech 12:1,10-declares the Lord [Jehovah]...And I will pour out on the house of David and on the inhabitants of Jerusalem, the Spirit of grace and of supplication, so that they will look on ME whom they have pierced; and they will mourn for Him, as one mourns for an only son, and they will weep bitterly over Him, like the bitter weeping over a first-born.

Rev 1:7-Behold, He [Jesus] is coming with the clouds, and every eye will see Him, even those who pierced Him; and all the tribes of the earth will mourn over Him.

Zech 14:3-5-Then the Lord [Jehovah] will go forth and fight against those nations, as when He fights on a day of battle. And in that day His feet will stand on the Mount of Olives... Then the Lord [Jehovah], my God, will come, [and] all the holy ones with Him!

Matt 25:31-But when the Son of Man comes in His glory, and all the angels with Him, then He will sit on His glorious throne.

Acts 1:11-12-"Men of Galilee, why do you stand looking into the sky? This Jesus, who has been taken up from you into heaven, will come in just the same way as you have watched Him go into heaven." Then they returned to Jerusalem from the mount called Olivet...

Zech 14:5-Then the Lord [Jehovah] my God will come, and all the holy ones with him.

1 Thess 3:13-at the coming of our Lord Jesus with all His saints.

Matt 3:3, Mark 1:2-3, Luke 3:4, John 1:23-This is he who was spoken of through the prophet Isaiah: "A voice of one calling in the desert, 'Prepare the way for the Lord [NWT-Jehovah], make straight the paths for him.'"

Luke 1:76-And you, my child [John the Baptist], will be called a prophet of the Most High; for you will go on before the Lord [NWT-Jehovah] to prepare the way for him. [He prepared the way for Jesus]

Is 40:3-A voice of one calling: "In the desert prepare the way for the Lord [Jehovah]; make straight in the wilderness a highway for our God. [Heb. & LXX-make straight the paths of our God]

Matt 21:15-16-But when the chief priests and the scribes saw the wonderful things that He had done, and the children who were crying out in the temple and saying, "Hosanna to the Son of David," they became indignant, and said to Him, "Do You hear what these are saying?" And Jesus said to them, "Yes; have you never read, 'Out of the mouth of infants and nursing babes Thou hast prepared praise for Thyself?" [Quote from Ps. 2:6, Jehovah]

John 17:11-"Holy Father, protect them by the power of your name-the name you gave me..."

John 17:12-"While I was with them, I protected them and kept them safe by that name you gave me."

Rom 10:9,11-13-confess Jesus as Lord...For the Scripture says, "Whoever believes in Him will not be disappointed"...the same Lord is Lord of all, abounding in riches for all who call upon Him; for "Whoever will call upon the name of the Lord will be saved." [Quote from Joel 2:32-Jehovah]

Phil 2:9-Therefore also God highly exalted Him, and bestowed on Him the name which is above every name...

Heb 1:4-So he became as much superior to the angels as the name he has inherited is superior to theirs.

Heb 1:8,10-But about the Son he says...He also says, "In the beginning, O Lord, you laid the foundations of the earth, and the heavens are the work of your hands..."

Ps 102:22-25-the Lord [Jehovah]..."O my God...In the beginning you laid the foundations of the earth, and the heavens are the works of your hands."



What form did Jesus assume when coming to earth as a man?

*Phil 2:5-7-Have this attitude in yourselves which was also in Christ Jesus, who, although He existed in the form of God, did not regard equality with God a thing to be grasped, but emptied Himself, taking the form of a bond-servant, and being made in the likeness of men.

Is 61:1, Luke 4:18-"The Spirit of the Lord [Jehovah] God is upon me, because the Lord [Jehovah] has anointed me to bring good news to the afflicted; He has sent me..."

Matt 20:23, Mark 10:40-"to sit on My right hand and on My left, this is not Mine to give, but it is for those for whom it has been prepared by My Father."

Matt 24:36, Mark 13:32-"But of that day and hour no one knows, not even the angels of heaven, nor the Son, but the Father alone."

Matt 27:46, Mark 15:34-"My God, My God, why hast thou Forsaken Me?"

Luke 22:42-"Father, if Thou art willing, remove this cup from Me; yet not My will, but Thine be done."

John 1:18-"No man has seen God at any time; the only begotten God, who is in the bosom of the Father, He has explained [Him]."

John 4:34-"My food is for me to do the will of him that sent me and to finish his work."

John 5:19-"Truly, truly, I say to you, the Son can do nothing of Himself, unless He sees the Father doing; for whatever [the Father] does, these things the Son also does in like manner."

John 6:38-"For I have come down from heaven, not to do My own will, but the will of Him who sent Me."

John 6:57-"the living Father sent Me, and I live because of the Father..."

John 7:28-"I have not come of Myself, but He who sent Me is true..."

John 7:29-"I know Him; because I am from Him, and He sent Me."

John 8:28-"I do nothing on My own initiative, but I speak these things as the Father taught Me."

John 8:42-"I have not even come on My own initiative, but He sent Me."

John 12:49-"the Father Himself who sent Me has given Me commandment, what to say, and what to speak."

John 14:28-"the Father is greater than I"

John 14:31-"the Father gave me commandment"

John 17:1-5-"Father...Thou gavest Him authority over all mankind, that to all whom Thou hast given Him, He may give eternal life. And this is eternal life, that they may know Thee, the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom Thou hast sent. I glorified Thee on the earth, having accomplished the work which Thou hast given Me to do; And now, glorify Thou Me together with Thyself, Father, with the glory which I had with Thee before the world was."

John 20:17-"I ascend to My Father and your Father, and My God and your God."

John 20:21-"as the Father has sent Me, I also send you."

Heb 2:11-For both He who sanctifies and those who are sanctified are all from one [Father]...

1 John 4:9-God sent His only begotten Son into the world



In heaven, does Jesus subject Himself to His Father's headship?

1 Cor 3:23-and you belong to Christ; and Christ belongs to God

1 Cor 11:3-Christ is the head of every man, and the man is the head of a woman, and God is the head of Christ.

1 Cor 15:24-28-then comes the end, when He delivers up the kingdom to the God and Father, when He has abolished all rule and all authority and power. For He must reign until He has put all His enemies under His feet. The last enemy that will be abolished is death. For He has put all things in subjection under His feet. But when He says, "All things are put in subjection," it is evident that He is excepted who put all things in subjection to Him. And when all things are subjected to Him, then the Son Himself also will be subjected to the One who subjected all things to Him, that God may be all in all.

Phil 2:11-Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father

1 Pet 1:3-Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ

Rev 3:12-"He who overcomes, I [Jesus] will make him a pillar in the temple of My God, and he will not go out from it anymore; and I will write upon him the name of My God, and the name of the city of My God, the new Jerusalem, which comes down out of heaven from My God, and My new name."
God is the head of Christ, that God may be all in all, and I (Jesus) will write upon him the name of My God. Verses like these show the Father is Almighty only. Jesus even said I CAN DO NOTHING OF MY OWN. If Jesus is all powerful it is because the Father has given him that power.

John 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

Since God has no beginning, Jesus therefore can not be God in the sense of having no beginning. He, the Word was there in the beginning with God. What is this beginning? Is it not the son of God himself? He was the first to have life, God life. He is the first in the sense that nobody else is like him. He is the only begotten son and since there is no other begotten ones from the father he is the last. Nobody knows how long the son has existed only the father thus he is like Melchizedek in that nobody can pinpoint his origin.

The Word was God in the sense that only Jesus is born of God. Everything else is through him. He is the beginning and the end. In the beginning starts with him. In the beginning does not apply to the Father. He has no beginning!
Could Jesus be considered as “God”?

I used to subscribe to the lack of the definite article argument that would make John 1:1 say “was a god” and not “was God”. I’m not Trinitarian or a Greek scholar, but I decided that “a god” just doesn’t seem to fit the incredible position that the Son of God has. Then of course there are scriptures that describe God’s Son as “Mighty God”, “Eternal Father”. I'm aware of the points that relate such terms only to Jesus role in saving the human race - but especially then does Jesus take on a special role for us that goes beyond merely being "a god" - as if he were like mere angels.

I believe that the Word had a beginning - yet in a sense still be said to be “eternal” as the scriptures indicate. I was trying to figure out by what process the Son was produced and maybe that would give me the key to understanding what seems a conflict of terms. Was he "created", or was he "begotten"? Is there a difference? Was the Son of the same or different "substance" as the Father? Of what "substance" is the Son, a divine substance the same as the Father, or of a lesser type of substance? Anyway here's my conclusion.

“Created” to me sounds like some raw materials were floating around aimlessly in no kind of form or function - then poof – something of form or function was there. The poof part could involve say microscopic raw materials floating around in space that were suddenly organized into the created thing, but in my mind the created matter was there to begin with. I see Adam as being created in a poof type fashion from the created raw materials already there in the earth.

The Word was the “only begotten”, the “firstborn of all creation”. “Begotten” sounds like a different process – more like the procreation of humans - only without two humans. I visualize that the Word was a result of a process similar to the asexual reproduction method of microscopic organisms like paramecium. With asexual reproduction, the organism simply divides into two totally complete and separate organisms. So think of a lava lamp with the hot glob of stuff floating around that randomly divides off into other globs. The globs are all of the same substance, yet are separate. I suspect that the Father produced the Son in this fashion, by causing a part of his own self, his own eternal personal substance that never had a beginning, to divide off into the Son that was then imbued with his own separate and distinct personality and mind. The Son learned all things from the Father. The Son had a starting point, was the first born of all creation, in a sense of being himself "born". Yet the Son's own substance is exactly the same substance as the Father's - eternal. The Son is "divine" in his very nature - and in that is the exact image of the Father. The Son is "God" – but not "the Almighty God".

It’s possible that the Son is equal to the Father in every sense – that the Father made the Son to be a peer and not a lesser being. But the Son never gave it consideration to usurp the Father's position as Almighty God as the words of Philippians put it.

5 Keep this mental attitude in YOU that was also in Christ Jesus, 6 who, although he was existing in God’s form, gave no consideration to a seizure, namely, that he should be equal to God. 7 No, but he emptied himself and took a slave’s form and came to be in the likeness of men. 8 More than that, when he found himself in fashion as a man, he humbled himself and became obedient as far as death, yes, death on a torture stake. 9 For this very reason also God exalted him to a superior position and kindly gave him the name that is above every [other] name, 10 so that in the name of Jesus every knee should bend of those in heaven and those on earth and those under the ground, 11 and every tongue should openly acknowledge that Jesus Christ is Lord to the glory of God the Father. Philippians 2:5-11

So, in giving no consideration to a “seizure”- does this mean “seizure” was technically in the Son's reach because the Son was indeed a peer of the Father as far as power and ability? Does the Father have such trust of his Firstborn Son that he would grant such a thing- "functional equality"?

veritas re Wrote:
So, in giving no consideration to a “seizure”- does this mean “seizure” was technically in the Son's reach because the Son was indeed a peer of the Father as far as power and ability? Does the Father have such trust of his Firstborn Son that he would grant such a thing- "functional equality"?


It could simply mean he did not consider as Satan did to try and seize control. Jesus admits that the Father is greater than him and that he is subject to him. There is no subjection in equality! If both are equal to each other then there would be no subjection or submitting to the Father's will.

It becomes so much easier to understand the Nature of The Lord Jesus Christ if we first understand his role in coming to his creation Mankind. He came as a suffering Servant to die for our sins. His job requirements are very clear in Isaiah 53 ( Notice verse 6. And the LORD has laid on Him the iniquity of us all. ( the sins of ALL mankind)
And verse 10 Yet it pleased the LORD to bruise Him; ( It pleased Jehovah)
V11 He shall see the labor of His soul,and be satisfied. By His knowledge My righteous Servant shall justify many, For He shall bear their iniquities.

When the father calls the son " righteous" that is saying something since only God is " righteous " in Romans 3:10 Paul points that out quoting from the Psalms 14:1&3, 53:1&3, Ecclesiastes 7:20
When Jesus asked the rich young ruler in Matthew 19 " Why do you call me Good ?" He wasn't saying he wasn't good but pointed that only God was good. So in order to be Good He'd have to be _ _ _ ?

In Phil chapter 2 it is explained so well
6Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God: ( you don't need to grasp at being equal to God when you already are)

7But made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men:

( He laid aside the independant use of his Godly attributes when he became a man and as a man was in total subjection to the will of The Father as his suffering Servant)

8And being found in fashion as a man, he humbled himself, and became obedient unto death, even the death of the cross.

9Wherefore God also hath highly exalted him, and given him a name which is above every name: *note NWT inserts "other here which is not in the text"

( Is Jehovah a name?)

10That at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of things in heaven, and things in earth, and things under the earth;

11And that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord (kyrios) , to the glory of God the Father.

( See Isaiah 45:23 where Paul quotes from ( which applies to Jehovah in Isaiah and then to Jesus here in Phillipians)

{ In the Kingdom Interlinear page 18 it reads " How is a modern translator to know or determine when to render the greek words
( Kyrios) and (Theos) into the divine name in his version? By determining wherethe inspired Christian writers have quoted from the Hebrew scriptures. Then he must refer back to the original to locate whether the divine name appers there. This way he can determine the identity to give Kyrios and Theos and he can clothe them with personality.} So if translated using these rules we can now clothe the " Kyrios of verse 11 with the personality as this

11And that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Jehovah (kyrios) , to the glory of God the Father.

To which I say Amen!!! The True nature of The Lord Jesus Christ at last!!!

BethelBoy Wrote:
In Phil chapter 2 it is explained so well
6Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God: ( you don't need to grasp at being equal to God when you already are)


The majority text is quite trustworthy but there can be found Trinitarian bias. The translators of the KJV and a few other versions pulled a fast one here. Where it says "Thought it not robbery", the word "it" is nowhere in the Interlinear. Instead, it reads from the Greek: "Thought no robbery."

This makes the whole span of verses make sense in that even though Yeshua was in God's form, or likeness, he did NOT consider himself equal to God the Father. Think about it. What was the point Paul was trying to make? If he was saying that Yeshua considered himself the Father's equal, there would be no reason to point out that he was already existing in God's form.

It also makes one wonder how Yeshua could have been elevated to the position he was given after remaining obedient to death if he was already God before he got here.

Agape
:heartbeat:
Jesh

Jeshurun Wrote:
This makes the whole span of verses make sense in that even though Yeshua was in God's form, or likeness, he did NOT consider himself equal to God the Father. Think about it. What was the point Paul was trying to make? If he was saying that Yeshua considered himself the Father's equal, there would be no reason to point out that he was already existing in God's form.

Agape
:heartbeat:
Jesh


The Son is in subjection to the Father but they are still equals in the same sense as a wife is in subjection to her husband but they are still equals.

Another example. The Declaration of Independence says that all men are created equal, so me and the President are equals, however, i am under subjection to him because of his role.

So equality doesnt have to mean not being in subjection.

Yannis Wrote:
The Son is in subjection to the Father but they are still equals in the same sense as a wife is in subjection to her husband but they are still equals.

Another example. The Declaration of Independence says that all men are created equal, so me and the President are equals, however, i am under subjection to him because of his role.

So equality doesnt have to mean not being in subjection.


Good point Yannis. It's no wonder the Trinity debate has raged for 2000 years. I'm still baffled as to how Trinitarians get around Yeshua's statement that "the Father is greater than I am".

:happyheart:
Jesh

yes this can be a confusing subject but i think it can be answered if it is split into two seperate questions.

what was the nature of Christ?

and

what was his role in Gods plan

the first question is for me the most difficult but when trying to answer it we must not allow ourselves to confuse his nature with his mission.

for example scripture identifies christ as " God" hebrews 1:8

" your throne oh God is forever and ever, a sceptre of righteousness is the sceptre of your kingdom"

to read that scripture in an isolated manner would lead us to conclude that jesus must be Jehovah!
but if we read on
verse 9

"you have loved righteousness and hated lawlessness
therfore GOD, YOUR GOD has annointed you with the oil of gladness more than your companions"

so "O GOD" has a "GOD" his God Yahweh

so to try to answer the first question i would say that Jesus is from God, begotten, whatever that means in God terms.
for us mere humans to fully understand this i think is quite impossible
we are transient beings prisoners of time
we have no life in our single selves but need opposite sex to reproduce.
the word begotton in human terms can only be applied to being born of woman
to be born from God is something very different.

so to answer the second question we need to understand the role of Christ and then we will see how confusion has reigned between his nature and his role.
what i am about to write was shown to me by someone here its from another site and i think it answers the questions quite well


the mission of Christ involves a giving, recieving and handing back of authority.

matt 28:18
" all authority has been guiven to me in Heaven and on earth"

christ recieved this authority after he had been raised from the dead
he recieved it from His Father

ephes 1:19-23

"and what is the exceeding greatness of his power toward us who believe, according to the working of HIS(YAHWEH) mighty power which HE worked in Christ when HE raised him(Christ) from the dead and seated him(Christ) at his(YAHWEH) right hand in the heavenly places
far above all principality and power and might and dominion and every name that is named, not only in this age , but also in that which is to come
and HE(YAHWEH) put all things under His(Christ) feet and gave
him(Christ) to be head over all things to the church
which is his body the fullness of him who fills all in all"

so we read of a giving of authority to Christ from Yahweh and that authority is God like authority but must not be confused with Yahweh and his authority

now for the giving back after mission completed

1 corinthians 15:24-28

"then comes the end when he(Christ) delivers the kingdom to God the Father(YAHWEH) , when he puts an end to all rule authority and power
for he(Christ) must reign until he has put all enemies under his feet
the last enemy that will be destroyed is death
for "he has put all things under his feet" but when he says all things it is evident that he(YAHWEH) who puts all things under him is excepted
Now when all things are made subject to him, then the Son himself will also be subject to Him(YAHWEH) who put all things under
him(Christ), that God may be all in all"

so here we are reading about Christ handing back that authority to Yahweh.

so to sum up i would say that the trinity doctrine has confused the authority of Christ for a specified time scale with who he actually isand has used his nature(God|) to imply that he is Yahweh himself.

on the other hand the WTO has not fully recognised the authority that Christ has been given and bypass him in their worship.
they have failed to recognise his authority and have replaced it with mans authority.

hope this helps it did for me
sorry i cannot link you to the site where this is blogged i do not know how to do that.

Elihu
Jesh, I did look up Phil 2:V6 in the Berry Greek to English Interlinear as well as with the Interlinear Scripture Analyzer 2.0 sftware
( It's free!! here is a link ) http://www.scripture4all.org/download/do..._ISA20.php

Here is what Berry has " In [the]form of God subsisting not rapine esteemed it to be equal with God.

ISA2.0 Who in the form of God belonging not snatching deems the to be equal with God


As to why he would be elevated FIRST he Had to Humble himself and become a man suffer and die for us.

Phil verses 7and 8 but made Himself of no reputation, taking the form of a bondservant, and coming in the likeness of men. 8 And being found in appearance as a man, He humbled Himself and became obedient to the point of death, even the death of the cross.

As well as to return and be Exalted about the angels the scriptures show he before becoming a man was above them " Why?" He Created them!!

Psalm 8:5
For You have made him a little lower than the angels, And You have crowned him with glory and honor.

Hebrews 2:5
[ The Son Made Lower than Angels ] For He has not put the world to come, of which we speak, in subjection to angels.

Hebrews 2:7
You have made him a little lower than the angels;You have crowned him with glory and honor, And set him over the works of Your hands.

Hebrews 2:9
But we see Jesus, who was made a little lower than the angels, for the suffering of death crowned with glory and honor, that He, by the grace of God, might taste death for everyone.
I don't understand. If God is our creator, and Jesus is his son, how can Jesus be the creator?

Bodhi
Yeshua was and still is God's Son. He is the one promised to rise from the nation of Israel as their Savior and Messiah. He was not God Himself, but Yahweh's prime representative, chosen by Yahweh. God wasn't His own Son, God cannot be tempted by Satan, and God cannot die. He didn't choose Himself out of the nation of Israel to represent Himself... and He couldn't sit down at His Own right hand... No, Yeshua is Yahweh's Right Hand Man! :yes: He is spoken of as having a God - his God and our God, Yahweh. Does Yahweh have Himself as a God? And yet, can't His Son be called 'God' because he so accurately and fully represents and reflects His Father, Who taught him all things? I've been affectionately called "little Olive" when I acted like or sounded like my mother, but that's not my name.

Even before I became a Witness, the trinity doctrine was beyond my grasp - I even read numerous books on the subject trying to wrap my mind around it, which was frustrating - I only wanted the truth! The Witness' explanation made a lot of sense to me. And yet, it's not fully on-the-spot- either. In their attempt to define one apart from the other they've created a chasm between them that does not exist - they are inseparable in purpose and will. Where the One is, so is the other. God is one, and Yeshua is with Him in spirit in the same way we, as Christians, are one with Yeshua and make-up the composite body of the Christ - with him at the head of us, and Yahweh at Yeshua's head. To me it's like... a family business. Father is the patriarch who founded the company and has put his son in charge of operations and we Christians are the employees and share-holders. It's one BIG company!

It makes perfect sense to me - but that's me, and I could be wrong - I have been before...:redface: I don't think someone who believes the trinity explanation of God's nature is bad or blind - we are all just trying to understand how and why and what God is. As soon as Yahweh reveals every single detail about every single question we have - then we'll know! (And I think we'll ALL be wrong about so many things!)

my :2cents:
Love to all ya'll,
Willa
:peace:
Is there supposed to be an argument for the trinity doctrine here? :read: :dontknow:

sw
Hi Chuck, In understanding Jesus ( the God/man) He is Fully God in his divine attributes and Fully man in his humanity. In the Word becoming flesh be laid aside the independant use of his Godly attributes humbled himself and became a man just like you and I. Why? So he could taste death for you and I. Walk this world like you and I except without ever sinning in thought or in deed.

1st Peter 1: verse 20 He indeed was foreordained before the foundation of the world, but was manifest in these last times for you( Before there was a world, an Adam, an Eve, there was the plan for the God/man!!!)

God the Father was in a greater position than his servant Son if the Scriptures used the word better that would be a comparison of natures but instead it is a comparison of positions.
" The Father is greater than I "

When did Jesus become the " Begotten"? at the Resurrection.

Acts 13:33 32 And we declare to you glad tidings—that promise which was made to the fathers. 33 God has fulfilled this for us their children, in that He has raised up Jesus. As it is also written in the second Psalm:


‘ You are My Son,
Today I have begotten You.’

Question was Isaac Abrahams " Only Begotten Son " ?
Hebrews 11:17
By faith Abraham, when he was tested, offered up Isaac, and he who had received the promises offered up his only begotten son,( What about Ishmael was he not a son of Abraham?) Perhaps Begotten means " One of a Kind or Unique "

Another Example of this is the Term [size=medium]"Firstborn" [/size]( greek= prototokos)

The Greek word for first-born is PROTOTOKOS. ( not protoktistos which means first created and could have been used If Paul wanted us to think Jesus was created)

This word is not easily understood by English readers. It was used to refer to the priority position of a child in the family and was used in a broader sense to mean “the most important or priority-one.”

In a Jewish family of that time period it meant as a firstborn Son you were the one who got a double portion of your Fathers inheritance. But as you will see Especially in refernce to Collosians 1:15 can also mean The Preeminent Son. Coll 1:15 He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn over all creation.

In reference to David Jehovah says in Psalm 89:27 Also I will make him My firstborn,The highest of the kings of the earth.

Was David the first one born in his family? No he was the last of Jesse's Sons but to Jehovah he was the Preeminent Son.


If we look at Collosians 1:18 it says " And He is the head of the body, the church, who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead, that in all things He may have the preeminence.

Jesus wasn't the first one raised from the dead, How about Lazarus, the widow


AND LAST BUT NOT LEAST!!!

Exodus 41:51 Joseph called the name of the firstborn Manasseh:[a] “For God has made me forget all my toil and all my father’s house.” 52 And the name of the second he called Ephraim:[

Now lets look at Jeremiah 31:9
and see who Jehovah calls " The Firstborn"

, And Ephraim is My firstborn[/u].


Lastly In Micah 5:2 there is the wonderful prophecy of the birth of the Messiah in Bethlhem) and this is said of the Messiah.

The Coming Messiah
2 “ But you, Bethlehem Ephrathah,
Though you are little among the thousands of Judah,
Yet out of you shall come forth to Me
The One to be Ruler in Israel,
Whose goings forth are from of old,
From everlasting.”


The word translated Everlasting ( or in some cases Eternity) is "olam". and is only ever applied to YHWH NEVER a created being but GOD alone.As in Psalm 90:2

2 Before the mountains were brought forth,
Or ever You had formed the earth and the world,
Even from everlasting to everlasting, You are God.
I just read Micah chapter 5. I see nothing that Jesus has fulfilled.

So when did Jesus defend Israel from invading Assyrians? or raise up seven shepherds or eight rulers of men? (5:5)

Bodhi
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