Paradise Cafe Discussions - A Place For Bible Research And Christian Encouragement

DDLRS, I looked into the Hebrew on Micah 5:3 oulm translated eon =

Webster 1. An immeasurable or infinite space of time; eternity; a
long space of time; an age.

2. (Gnostic Philos.) One of the embodiments of the divine
attributes of the Eternal Being.


And I like this as a translation for the Isaiah 9:6 Father of Eternity
( Darby )

Will Get back to you on John 5

Eternity in its simplest forms can be understood as-
<<<<<<<<<>>>>>>>> and >>>>>>>>>>>>
also the concepts of T-duality and Mirror Symmetry can offer insights into time, timelessness, the time before time etc., that "age" as conceptualized by the Hebrews before the cosmos can into existence, Gen.1:1,2.; the age when the Logos/Son existed with the Father and was Begotten, John 1:18; 3:16-18.

In Christ

designs

Artcritic, Yesua's Human body was dead for 3 days the same as Lazarus' was.

Luke 23:46 And when Jesus had cried out with a loud voice, He said, “Father, ‘into Your hands I commit My spirit.’” Having said this, He breathed His last.

Interesting what Stephen's last words In Acts 7:59 were
And they stoned Stephen as he was calling on God and saying, “Lord Jesus, receive my spirit.[/quote]


psalm6
4-5

" return O Lord deliver me!
Oh save me for your mercies sake!
for in death there is no rememberance of you
in the grave who will give you thanks"
so now you tell us that the body has an immortal soul.

John 17
" do not cling to me for i have not yet ascended to my Father, but go to my bretheren and say to them
i am ascending to MY FATHER and to YOUR FATHER and to MY GOD and to YOUR GOD"

the one you say you know said he had not gone to heaven yet

so think again my friend if you think you can make us believe in the trinity and the immortal soul.

christ is indeed my saviour he is the saviour of the human race he died so that our sins may be forgiven.
" for god so loved the world that he gave his only begotton Son so that whoever believes in him may not perish but have everlasting life"

the test by Yahweh of abraham was the most horrific test a man could experience
not one of giving his own life, but a test that required he give his Only sons life
a son whom he loved more than his very self!

this was a prelude of the sacrifice to come not Yahweh giving himself but even more than that the sacrifice of an only begotton SON

all of us here believe in Him and that sacrifice and its meaning for us but we also recognise His relationship with regard to His father.
and do not make the mistake of not recognising when authority and title is given

He is his only begotton Son ,the firstborn over all creation, the son to whom the father gives all authority and power, until he conquers the last enemy, that is death.
he then hands the kingdom back to the father.

elihu
[/quote]

Excellent post, elihu!:thumbsup::read: Once again, your coherent and clear rebuttal of this man made doctrine doctrine is inspiring!:read::ok:
Christian love to all,
Sis Grateful :giverose:

I meant to write 'clear scriptural rebuttal' of this man made doctrine, because you use only the scriptures to make that point.:ok:

ok lets look logically at this The Bible starts out with this statement
" In the Beginning GOD



" and everything else that exists is created by HIM "
( Angels, Humans, the Earth and the cosmos )

We are told His Spirit hovered over the waters and then that " His Word comes into the picture GOD Said " Let There be Light " and there was light. and so on and so on . 3 separate enties
involved in creation

So in creation We have " God " His Word " and
" His Spirit "

and therefore if your not a created being your GOD
and if you rely on something for your existence your not GOD

Coll 1:15 He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn over all creation. 16 For by Him all things were created that are in heaven and that are on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or principalities or powers. All things were created through Him and for Him. 17 And He is before all things, and in Him all things consist.

If He is before " ALL THINGS " HE IS THE CREATOR
in Him all things consist. ( That is HE is what is Holding EVERYTHING TOGETHER )

PLEASE REMEMBER THERE WAS A GOOD REASON THE NWT INSERTED
" Other " 4 TIMES INTO THESE VERSES " All Other Things "

So When I die and go to Meet MY maker I have 2 to meet?

GOD says in Isaiah 43:10
Isaiah 43:10
“ You are My witnesses,” says the LORD, “ And My servant whom I have chosen, That you may know and believe Me, And understand that I am He. Before Me there was no God formed, Nor shall there be after Me

So If GOD says there there was no God formed before Him or After Him. Jesus cannot be " a God "

Isaiah 43:11 11 I, even I, am the LORD,
And besides Me there is no savior.

So how can we call Jesus the Savior if He is Not GOD?

The word in Greek for "first-created" is "protoktistos". This term is NOT used in connection with Jesus.

The term "firstborn" means in Greek, "Preeminence in rank". Christ was preeminent before all creation and is therefore the Creator.

The word "beginning" in Greek means "Supervisor", "Designer", "Origin", "Source". Jesus is the Creator.

"...the beginning of the creation of God says this" (Revelation 3:14)

The term "only begotten" referring to Jesus occurs in John 1:14, 18; 3:16-18; Hebrews 11:17; and 1 John 4:9. This term has no application to the time of Jesus' so-called "creation", but Acts 13:33 applies it to the time of the resurrection of Jesus Christ...
"that God has fulfilled this promise to our children in that HE RAISED UP JESUS, as it is also written in the second Psalm, "Thou are my Son; TODAY I HAVE BEGOTTEN THEE."

Bethel Boy,

In your post you demonstrate why we encourage our students to study Jewish history, culture, idiomatic expressions to grasp fully what the historical context and future progress revelations and applications of Scriptural texts are saying. Previously the aspects of Agency had been discussed from Scripture and also historical works such as the Dead Sea Scrolls.

As an aside I don't think you will find many here who use the NWT. Most prefer other scholarly Translations.

The progressive revelation of Scripture on Creation is the revealing of the person identified as 'us' in Genesis 1:26. i was held by many ancients to have referred to the angels, Job 1. But in the NT Jesus reveals that it was himself, and he describes how this symbiotic relationship with his Father worked, John 5:17+.

One should remember in the OT the relationship that was established through Covenants (Federalism, Legal Arrangements) presented YHWH as Head. This is why he is El Shaddiah to the Jewish people and is focused upon in Isaiah and other places. It is revealed in the NT that Jesus as the Logos acted on YHWH's behalf in these occurances and miracles and that now in the Gospel Age all praise should go to Jesus Christ as the Head of the Church (to the honor of his God, Phil.2:5-11). It should also be remembered that Christ's glory is still in ascendency with greater glory to come at the Second Advent, Millennium and post Millennium periods.

Yes you will stand before two Gods- The Father, who Jesus identified as 'The Only True God, and the Son, Rev.5:13,14.

Remember the Son is the 'exact charakter' of his Father, Heb.1:3+. HOMOIOUSIAN. The reflection of his Father's Glory. There is in this relationship 'hupotasso' , the eternal subjection of the Son to the Father, 1 Cor.15:27,28.

The cited Scriptures in the Gospels refer to a period other than the resurrection begetting, Acts does refer to the resurrection begetting.
The text you refer to in Heb.11:17 speaks of Abraham offering up Isaac, this should serve as a good illustration for you to understand The Father YHWH offering up his Son. 1John 4:9 speaks of the only begotten son being offered, so the order is the only begotten is offered, dies, then later is resurrected by The Father, Rom.10:9+, a second begetting of a different sort.

In Christ

designs

The text you refer to in Heb.11:17 speaks of Abraham offering up Isaac, this should serve as a good illustration for you to understand The Father YHWH offering up his Son.[/quote]

My Point in this text is that it says Abraham offered up his " only begotten " Son What about Ishmael ? ' Begotton does mean " Only begotton " doesn't mean only created "

[/quote]Yes you will stand before two Gods[/quote]

ONE GOD So even though GOD says before Him no God was formed and neither will there be any after HIM Is 43:10 we have 2 Gods?

Jesus says we are to Worship God alone in Matt: 4:10 yet Heb 1:6
GOD says “ Let all the angels of God worship Him.” and Matt 28: 9 And as they went to tell His disciples, behold, Jesus met them, saying, “Rejoice!” So [b]they came and held Him by the feet and worshiped Him. and he doesn't rebuke them

ONE CREATOR In Isaiah 44:24 GOD says He created alone and by Himself yet we know Jesus took part in creation. Mal 2:20 one God created Us.

Isaih 43:11 ONE Saviour "I, even I, am the LORD, And besides Me there is no savior. Acts 4:12 Salvation in no other name than Jesus.

ONE KING ps 10:16 The LORD is King forever and ever;The nations have perished out of His land. Rev 19:16 KING OF KINGS AND LORD OF LORDS.

ONE Spirit 1 Corinth 12:13 For by one Spirit we were all baptized into one body

Romans 8:9 But you are not in the flesh but in the Spirit, if indeed the Spirit of God dwells in you. Now if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, he is not His. 10 And if Christ is in you, the body is dead because of sin, but the Spirit is life because of righteousness.

ONE Shepherd ps 40:10 Behold, the Lord GOD shall come with a strong hand,And His arm shall rule for Him; Behold, His reward is with Him,
And His work before Him. 11 He will feed His flock like a shepherd;
He will gather the lambs with His arm, And carry them in His bosom,
And gently lead those who are with young.

ONE MIGHTY GOD Jerm 32:18 18 You show lovingkindness to thousands, and repay the iniquity of the fathers into the bosom of their children after them—the Great, the Mighty God, whose name is the LORD of hosts.

Isaiah 9:6 And His name will be called Wonderful, Counselor, Mighty God, 10:21 But will depend on the LORD, the Holy One of Israel, in truth. 21 The remnant will return, the remnant of Jacob, To the Mighty God.


ONE HOLY ONE Isaiah 40:25 25 “ To whom then will you liken Me, Or to whom shall I be equal?” says the Holy One.

Mark 1:24 saying, “Let us alone! What have we to do with You, Jesus of Nazareth? Did You come to destroy us? I know who You are—the Holy One of God!”

Acts 3:14 But you denied the Holy One and the Just, and asked for a murderer to be granted to you,

ONE WHO CLAMS THE SEAS Ps 107

23 Those who go down to the sea in ships,
Who do business on great waters,
24 They see the works of the LORD,
And His wonders in the deep.
25 For He commands and raises the stormy wind,
Which lifts up the waves of the sea.
26 They mount up to the heavens,
They go down again to the depths;
Their soul melts because of trouble.
27 They reel to and fro, and stagger like a drunken man,
And are at their wits’ end.
28 Then they cry out to the LORD in their trouble,
And He brings them out of their distresses.
29 He calms the storm,
So that its waves are still.
30 Then they are glad because they are quiet;
So He guides them to their desired haven.

Luke 8:22-25 Who can this be?

ONE TO BOW AND CONFESS TO


Isaiah 45: 23 I have sworn by Myself;
The word has gone out of My mouth in righteousness,
And shall not return,
That to Me every knee shall bow,
Every tongue shall take an oath.
Phil 2 : 10 10 that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of those in heaven, and of those on earth, and of those under the earth, 11 and that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.

THere are SO MANY MORE Instances catch you later

BB[/quote]








:

Bethel Boy,

I will be happy to go over each text of Scripture with you. This way we can consider Context, History, Intended Audience, Point of View of Parties Inlisted, Juxtapositions, Metaphors, Symbollisms, Parabolic Terms and Illustratioins etc..

One of the most precise and concise Christological summations is contained in John 5, these are Jesus own words. This will help you as you restudy other Texts dealing with YHWH The Father and the Divine Son, how The Father Begat and works through The Son in all his dealings. How the Father has brought his Son to this great ascendency he has today and will have even more so in the future.

In Christ

designs

My Point in this text is that it says Abraham offered up his " only begotten " Son What about Ishmael ? ' Begotton does mean " Only begotton " doesn't mean only created "

[/quote]Yes you will stand before two Gods[/quote]

ONE GOD So even though GOD says before Him no God was formed and neither will there be any after HIM Is 43:10 we have 2 Gods?

Jesus says we are to Worship God alone in Matt: 4:10 yet Heb 1:6
GOD says “ Let all the angels of God worship Him.” and Matt 28: 9 And as they went to tell His disciples, behold, Jesus met them, saying, “Rejoice!” So [b]they came and held Him by the feet and worshiped Him. and he doesn't rebuke them

ONE CREATOR In Isaiah 44:24 GOD says He created alone and by Himself yet we know Jesus took part in creation. Mal 2:20 one God created Us.

Isaih 43:11 ONE Saviour "I, even I, am the LORD, And besides Me there is no savior. Acts 4:12 Salvation in no other name than Jesus.

ONE KING ps 10:16 The LORD is King forever and ever;The nations have perished out of His land. Rev 19:16 KING OF KINGS AND LORD OF LORDS.

ONE Spirit 1 Corinth 12:13 For by one Spirit we were all baptized into one body

Romans 8:9 But you are not in the flesh but in the Spirit, if indeed the Spirit of God dwells in you. Now if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, he is not His. 10 And if Christ is in you, the body is dead because of sin, but the Spirit is life because of righteousness.

ONE Shepherd ps 40:10 Behold, the Lord GOD shall come with a strong hand,And His arm shall rule for Him; Behold, His reward is with Him,
And His work before Him. 11 He will feed His flock like a shepherd;
He will gather the lambs with His arm, And carry them in His bosom,
And gently lead those who are with young.

ONE MIGHTY GOD Jerm 32:18 18 You show lovingkindness to thousands, and repay the iniquity of the fathers into the bosom of their children after them—the Great, the Mighty God, whose name is the LORD of hosts.

Isaiah 9:6 And His name will be called Wonderful, Counselor, Mighty God, 10:21 But will depend on the LORD, the Holy One of Israel, in truth. 21 The remnant will return, the remnant of Jacob, To the Mighty God.


ONE HOLY ONE Isaiah 40:25 25 “ To whom then will you liken Me, Or to whom shall I be equal?” says the Holy One.

Mark 1:24 saying, “Let us alone! What have we to do with You, Jesus of Nazareth? Did You come to destroy us? I know who You are—the Holy One of God!”

Acts 3:14 But you denied the Holy One and the Just, and asked for a murderer to be granted to you,

ONE WHO CLAMS THE SEAS Ps 107

23 Those who go down to the sea in ships,
Who do business on great waters,
24 They see the works of the LORD,
And His wonders in the deep.
25 For He commands and raises the stormy wind,
Which lifts up the waves of the sea.
26 They mount up to the heavens,
They go down again to the depths;
Their soul melts because of trouble.
27 They reel to and fro, and stagger like a drunken man,
And are at their wits’ end.
28 Then they cry out to the LORD in their trouble,
And He brings them out of their distresses.
29 He calms the storm,
So that its waves are still.
30 Then they are glad because they are quiet;
So He guides them to their desired haven.

Luke 8:22-25 Who can this be?

ONE TO BOW AND CONFESS TO


Isaiah 45: 23 I have sworn by Myself;
The word has gone out of My mouth in righteousness,
And shall not return,
That to Me every knee shall bow,
Every tongue shall take an oath.
Phil 2 : 10 10 that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of those in heaven, and of those on earth, and of those under the earth, 11 and that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.

THere are SO MANY MORE Instances catch you later

BB[/quote]








:
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