Jehovah's Witness pedophiles on NBC Nightly News 11/21/07
These pigs are now getting national exposure! What a reproach on Jehovah's name! Maybe this is the beginning of the end for the Tower.
http://today.msnbc.msn.com/id/21917798/
Jeshurun
I saw the report... and this is by far NOT the first national exposure... I remember NBC Dateline doing a whole show on them back in the early part of this decade... and Connie Chung. I'm sure all of the clips are still available for viewing at
http://www.silentlambs.org
Nearly every organization that has been reared up in the name of God have been a reproach upon His name... This society denies the ransom for all by disallowing Adam into the kingdom as well as millions of others just because they won't listen to the front porch prophets.
However, the Heavenly Father sits in the clouds and laughs because He has them in derision... they are sinking and He is ever rising. Shall we not continue to pray for those within and to proffer a hand up to those therein seeking a way out...
amen
In its statement to NBC, the Jehovah’s Witnesses said it does “not condone or protect child molesters. Our elders expel unrepentant sinners who commit this crime.” According to the church, “the incidence of this crime among Jehovah’s Witnesses is rare.” The statement said the organization does “not silence victims” and “members have an absolute right to report his horrible crime to the authorities.” The church has issued many publications about child abuse, including the cover story in the October issue of its magazine, Awake. “These articles clearly show our concern for protecting children from sexual abuse,” the church said in its statement.
The watchtower's comments are all vague. It does what it does, under advice of lawyers, to protect itself from liability. Barbara Anderson didn't see things that way.
Barbara Anderson, a former church member and a vocal critic of the organization on this issue, contends that Jehovah’s Witnesses policies “protect pedophiles rather than protect the children.” Anderson recently compiled documents from the lawsuits on a CD titled “Secrets of Pedophilia in an American Religion.”
Anderson says she first focused on the controversy in the early 1990s when she worked at the Watchtower Society headquarters in Brooklyn and was assigned to deal with letters from church members complaining of abuse. While conducting that research, she says she discovered that in its internal proceedings against accused molesters, the church applies a biblically based “two-witness” rule. “They require another witness to the actual molestation,” Anderson says, “which is an impossibility.”
gus
In the field of Psychotherapy treating and working with sexual predators is a highly specialized area. Not all trained therapists have the constitution to remain objective and stay on point with a therapeutic program, if that is even advisable. Incarceration may be the only way to protect society. But then the issue still surfaces- what happens when a person is paroled.
Churches have a dilemma in that their message is- Christ can redeem sinners, sinners can change with Christ, and so a open door policy exists to an extent. This is the message from Paul in 1Cor.6:9-11.
Murderers, violent people, thieves etc. can change and be saved.
But how are the church members protected from this influx of sinners and what is the protocol when a reformed sinner Relapses.
Few Pastors or Elders receive the training to effectively work with many psychological extremes or how to recognize psychological problems from biological problems or combinations thereof. An astute pastor will keep in his File professional sources to refer individuals and families to if and when a crisis develops. This is an area that needs to be addressed.
agape
designs
Everyone needs Jesus. Everyone needs to "put on the new personality." Everyone needs a second chance. The question is whether other members of the flock need to be advised in order to protect themselves.
Here in the US we are focused on the rights of the accused and convicted - most often at the expense of the rights of victims or potential victims. We KNOW that sinners will re-offend, often many times. Where does one draw the line? The murder of a child's spirit by robbing him of his innocence is still murder...only in such cases, it is not a "crime of passion"...the murderers are pathological and diabolical and groom their victims, fattening their sheep before slaughtering them.
In my opinion, the protection of innocence outweighs the rights of an offender with a 99/100 percent chance of re-offending. To me, that is not a "moral dilemma," that is common sense. If a paroled sex-offender has to spend the rest of his life apart from children and subject to the stares of people concerned about protecting their community...too flippin' bad. That is not the end of the world. A housebroken wolf is still a wolf.
There is always the resurrection.
gus
Where does one draw the line? The murder of a child's spirit by robbing him of his innocence is still murder...only in such cases, it is not a "crime of passion"...the murderers are pathological and diabolical and groom their victims, fattening their sheep before slaughtering them.
I agree Gus. Our society needs to be protected from child molesters. The pain that they cause is immeasurable and the legacy they leave is unbearable. This crime does indeed rob a child of its spirit. Sometimes those that are molested grow up to molest others. Any person that would commit these crimes deserves to be punished accordingly. Even after these criminals get out of jail they should be monitored for life. Their urges never cease. That is the price that they must pay for their brutal crimes against innocent children.
Paul
Gus and Paul,
The issues within a Christian framework are-
Can a sinner be fully cured of their impulses.
Are some conditions beyond help either by therapeutic methods or the Holy Spirit.
What does a Church do with sinners who have a violent past or are in the midst of therapy or on parole.
Should there be screening processes in place for people wishing to become members.
How do you treat persons coming off the street to your Church for the first time.
All these issues and more face Pastors and Church Members these days. As a Pastor what would you do with new attendees and how would yoy handle members who experience relapse.
As a side note-
In the Reformation the great issue regarding Salvation was whether it was Internal (meaning the individual actually experienced a total newness) or was Salvation External (meaning it was like a cloak and the inner person was to be regarded with caution). Do some actually experience a miraculous healing in distinction to a process of healing.
How can we know.
agape
designs
I noticed in the first sentence of the pr release they said they disfellowship 'unrepentant sinners.' This catches in my throat as it means whatever what they want it to mean--and it is their poor judgement call. My X attempted a seduction of my then 12 year old daughter and haughtily informed me he only needed to please the elders and owed her Nothing.-and--that worked for him. It didn't work for us (my kids and I) as we were years and years climbing out of the deep hole it dropped us into. I find it still hard to talk about as waves of sadness and something more sweeps over me. These men (imo) are so not equipped to handle these things. I have had to realize and I admit I too made my share of mistakes in the mishandling department by thinking I needed to let 'them' handle it but irregardless of that they Are soft on this particular crime and saying they are not is wrong--wrong--wrong--but then what else Can they say??????
The witnesses use to hide behind the "two witness rule" on this. That in itself should tell ya something. No pedophile is going to have witnesses. That is the main mishandling, imo.
I wonder if this will cause a new wave of lawsuits? I wonder if they'll ever be opened up to lawsuits for emotional and psychological abuse of their members?
Good points were made about sex offenders and churches. IMO a church (or congregtion) has the right to know if there is a predator in their midst. Having two children, this is information I would demand to know.
Also, it seems to me that following Jesus isn't a cure-all. He just makes our afflictions bearable for the present time. Predators seem to just have something wrong with their mind. That's what makes them so scary. The same thing is true with a sociopath. They have no conscience. Our conscience is what God gave us as a compass. If you don't have a compass, you get lost.
I guess this problem is just a symptom of the human race being so far removed from our Heavenly Father.
Had to edit twice because I cant spell this morning.
I read it and--spin--spin--spin......
"We do not condone or protect child molesters. Our elders expel unrepentant sinners who commit this crime. (1 Corinthians 5:13) In the United States, over 80,000 elders currently serve in over 12,300 congregations. (Acts 20:28) During the last 100 years, only eleven elders have been sued for child abuse in thirteen lawsuits filed in the United States. In seven of these lawsuits against the elders, accusations against the Watchtower Society itself were dismissed by the courts. Of course, one victim is one victim too many. However, the incidence of this crime among Jehovah’s Witnesses is rare."
I agree, Wolfie. This means very little. So...eleven elders were "sued for child abuse." Not sure what that means:
Elders abused children? The elders
knew about abuse children?
Every form of child abuse...or is the reference to sexual abuse? How many cases did not come to court? How many claims were made? Barbara Anderson says there are over twenty-thousand reported pedophiles in the Society's record books.
The issues within a Christian framework are-
Can a sinner be fully cured of their impulses.
Are some conditions beyond help either by therapeutic methods or the Holy Spirit.
What does a Church do with sinners who have a violent past or are in the midst of therapy or on parole.
Should there be screening processes in place for people wishing to become members.
How do you treat persons coming off the street to your Church for the first time.
I like your pragmatic approach to this problem, Designs. However, I know that I would feel responsible if a child under my care were sexually-abused by a man who I knew had a history that I helped keep secret. Of course, the watchtower has already made the case (upheld in the courts, btw) that its elders owe no fiduciary duty toward members of the congregations. In fact, it was that very claim by the watchtower society that 'sealed the deal' for me not to return to a congregation of JWs.
If the "shepherd" has no duty toward the sheep, then he is definitely not a shepherd, regardless of what he calls himself. He is just a man hired by an owner to keep watch on his property. Bottom-line, he is a "hired man" as established by the Watchtower Bible & Tract Society of New York in a court of law.
Main Entry:
2fiduciary
Function:
adjective
Etymology:
Latin fiduciarius, from fiducia confidence, trust, from fidere
Date:
circa 1641
: of, relating to, or involving a confidence or trust: as a: held or founded in trust or confidence b: holding in trust
I have no problem with a congregation accepting sinners of any and all types. The problem comes when we don't share important knowledge when the defenseless are endangered. I can sit next to a child molester in a kingdom hall without a worry in the world...but I don't want my little child to be alone in the restroom with him. All the folks need to know is how to avoid danger.
gus
Hi G! where can we see documentation of that alarming statement?
Some comments of Jinnvisible on this...
"Hang on a minute puppet master, It was Jehovah`s witness's who perpetrated these crimes wasn`t it ? They were accepted and condoned and approved as Jehovah`s witnesses by the Watchtower society at the time the crimes were perpetrated weren`t they ? Hense not all Jehovah`s witnesses worldwide are united in thier abhorrance are they ? because some, are the perpitraitors of the crimes. You almost had me there puppet master, almost had me believing that the crimes were not commited by Jehovah`s witnesses."
"During the last 100 years eh ? Well how many crimes of child molestation would you imagine were reported to the authorities by the whole American populace within the first 10 of those last 100 years from 1907 - 1917 ? Do you think the lack of lawsuits brought by complainants by the general populace in 1907 reflects the lack of crimes for that period or the stigma of reporting a crime like that in 1907 ?
In addition puppet master you previously reported the worldwide attitute of Jehovah`s witnesses, so why now is the context reduced to only the U.S. In regard to the statisticall information ? Some of the most well known cases are Australian and Canadian."
"Rare in comparison to what ? People who don`t commit the crime ? In comparison to the Catholic organisation ? The general populace ? Don`t be to shy puppet master to actually give it some meaning.
Cannibalism is rare generally as well isn`t it ? So thats a good thought then ?"
"An opportunity to refute the aptly tittled Bill Bowens silent lambs organization. Also victims have been silenced, so an unrighteous inaccuracy at best at worst a bare faced cowardly satanicly inspired lie. The best propaganda is always from the most well practiced at it. Who is more practiced than this puppet master ?"
(Thanks Jinn)
.02,
gogh