11-18-2007, 10:50 PM
Good evening dear family ... :grouphug: I am not at home right now so I am a wee bit late in putting up the text ... but better late than never!;)
homework warning ... :P after I got finished writing out the text I ended up with some questions ... which hopefully someone will have answers for ... but ya got to read the text to understand the question ...;):siskiss:
The text scripture for today is taken from 1Pet. 5:5 ...
All of you gird yourselves with lowliness of mind toward one another, because God opposes the haughtiness, but he gives undeserved kindness to the humble ones.
Watchtower comments ...
''Having a regular share in the Christian ministry can help us to be humble. Lowliness of mind can make us effective when we approach strangers we find from house to house and in other places. This is especially true when householders initially respond to the Kingdom message with apathy or rudeness. Our beliefs are often challenged, and humility can help the Christian to keep answering questions than ''with a mild temper and deep respect.'' (1 Pet. 3:15) Humble servants of God have moved to new territories and have helped people with different cultures and standards of living. Such ministers may humbly have to cope with the difficult task of learning a new language in order to be of better service to those with whom they want to share the good news. How commendable!--Matt. 28:19,20. w10/15/05 15,16a
My comments ...
The fully scriptural text says so as to get the 'context' ...
5 In like manner, YOU younger men, be in subjection to the older men. But all of YOU gird yourselves with lowliness of mind toward one another, because God opposes the haughty ones, but he gives undeserved kindness to the humble ones.
Well, I'm guess I'm going to go off on a tangent as I thought I'd like to focus for a second on the beginning of this verse ...
younger men
older men
It seems in order to be considered an 'older man' according to the Jewish custom one would have to be at least 40 years old ... but 'age' wasn't only it either ...
I thought you might find this little tidbit interesting ... :giverose: I know I did anyway ... ;)
"Every member of the Sanhedrin had to be distinguished in Torah knowledge, wisdom, humility, fear of God, indifference to monetary gain, love of truth, love of fellow man, and good reputation. It is thus written, "You shall provide out of all the people, able men, who fear God, men of truth, disdaining unjust gain, and place them over [the people]" (Exodus 18:21). It is likewise written, "Take from each of your tribes, wise men, with understanding and full of knowledge, and I will make them your leaders" (Deut. 1:13).
Similarly, the members of the Sanhedrin must command respect as mature individuals. Therefore, it is preferable that each member be at least 40 years old, unless he is incomparable in wisdom and universally respected. Similarly, it is preferable that the head of the Sanhedrin be at least 50 years old. Under no condition should a person under 18 be appointed to the Sanhedrin.
A person who is very old may not sit on the Sanhedrin, since he is apt to be too severe. The same is true of a man who is sterile, or even childless. A Sanhedrin containing any such member is not validly constituted. Therefore, if a member becomes very old or sexually maimed, he must be replaced."
Now, I personally find these 'qualifications' very interesting ... :thinking:
For when the Scriptures speak about 'older men' would they not be thinking about these types of men?
And if an 'older man' HAD to have these qualifications in order to serve in a 'shepherding' or 'judging' capacity then of course the 'younger men' should indeed look up to them and be submissive to their wisdom if it was based solidly on Scripture ... which they HAD to be fully aware of ...
The very first Sanhedrin came into existence in the days of Moses ... when 70 older men were appointed to help Moses, making the full number 71. This number is still considered today to be the official number for the Sanhedrin.
Now, if we bring this up to today, and the Christian congregation had this in mind for those who would 'take the lead' in the congregation ... then wouldn't they too have to live up to these HIGH standards ... standards that the Scriptures say they MUST ...
1Tim. 3:1-13 ...
1 The word is faithful: if any one aspires to exercise oversight, he desires a good work.
2 The overseer then must be irreproachable, husband of one wife, sober, discreet, decorous, hospitable, apt to teach;
3 not given to excesses from wine, not a striker, but mild, not addicted to contention, not fond of money,
4 conducting his own house well, having his children in subjection with all gravity;
5 (but if one does not know how to conduct his own house, how shall he take care of the assembly of God?)
6 not a novice, that he may not, being inflated, fall into the fault of the devil.
7 But it is necessary that he should have also a good testimony from those without, that he may fall not into reproach and the snare of the devil.
8 Ministers, in like manner, grave, not double-tongued, not given to much wine, not seeking gain by base means,
9 holding the mystery of the faith in a pure conscience.
10 And let these be first proved, then let them minister, being without charge against them .
11 The women (their wives) in like manner grave, not slanderers, sober, faithful in all things.
12 Let the ministers be husbands of one wife, conducting their children and their own houses well:
13 for those who shall have ministered well obtain for themselves a good degree, and much boldness in faith which is in Christ Jesus.
So, now I'm left to wondering here ... :thinking: :scratchhead:
So, a man who lived back in the early Christian congregation who wanted to serve in the capacity of an 'older man' had to be expert in the 'law', and live up to the qualifications above ...
They had to be 'older' or 'elderly, senior' ... even Moses was older being 80 years when he led the nation ... (he was too young, or not qualified enough even when he was 40)
So would we not expect 'older men' to have the same qualifications when it comes to God's Word ...? Should they not have a SOLID grasp of Scripture and a SOUND understanding of it ...? Would this not take TIME, years of study and meditating on God's written word?
If a person did not qualify for the SCRIPTURAL REQUIREMENTS ... "then just as a person was forbidden to appoint a man to the Sanhedrin or any other court if he does not have the necessary qualifications, even if he has other good qualities" ... then would this not also apply in principle in the Christian congregation as well ... :dontknow:
And now we come to the part of the Scripture mentioned in the text above ...
All of you gird yourselves with lowliness of mind toward one another, because God opposes the haughtiness, but he gives undeserved kindness to the humble ones.
Due to the fact that 'older men' were so 'SPIRITUAL' and had such a high standard they had to live up to, they had to BE VERY CAREFUL NOT to let these 'qualifications' ... go to their heads as it were ...
They had to remain HUMBLE, remembering that they were SERVANTS of their fellow brothers and sisters ... that they wanted to help their brothers grow in faith and knowledge of the teachings taught them by Christ and his followers ... and if necessary protect and counsel them ... but also doing so with a mild, just, and loving manner.
To me ... these 'standards' are goals to which we can ALL seek to attain, both men and women as we seek to become 'spiritual men and women' setting a fine example in the eyes of God as well as the eyes of men ...
Let us show 'lowliness of mind' or humility with all we meet no matter what circumstances that may be in.
Well, I'm not quite sure I have said all things right ... :blush:
However, I do have a question for 'experts' in language or the set up of the early congregation ... :questioning: :giverose:
In 1Tim. 3:1 when it speaks about the 'office of an overseer' ... I found it interesting that the definition of the word seems to imply a man who would 'travel' ... rather like Paul for example?
The Greek word is 'overseer' is ...
episkope
from 1980 inspection (for relief); by impl. superintendence; spec., the Christian "episcopate":- the office of a "bishop", bishoprick, visitation
episkeptomai
to inspect, i.e. (by impl.) to select; by extens. to go to see, relieve:- look out, visit
Then later on in 1Tim. 3:8 we have the word 'deacon' or 'ministers' or 'ministerial servants' ...
diakonos
prob. from an obs diako (to run on errands; comp. 1377); an attendant, i.e (gen.) a waiter (at table or in other menial duties); spec. a Christian teacher and pastor (tech. a deacon or deaconess):- deacon, minister, servant
Now ... I'm left to wondering here ... :scratchhead: with a rather unusual thought process :huh: ... what else is new for me though ;) ...
Did Jesus not say that his disciples were to 'minister' or 'serve' one another ... to 'teach' one another the 'good news of the kingdom ...?
Sooooooo
In the Christian congregation then wouldn't ALL the 'elders' then be 'ministers' or 'deacons' ... and the 'traveling' brothers be the 'overseers or bishops' ...?
Just something to get ya thinking too!!:P:whistle:;):siskiss::siskiss:
Love to all ... BR :sheepy: :bouncyhearts:
homework warning ... :P after I got finished writing out the text I ended up with some questions ... which hopefully someone will have answers for ... but ya got to read the text to understand the question ...;):siskiss:
The text scripture for today is taken from 1Pet. 5:5 ...
All of you gird yourselves with lowliness of mind toward one another, because God opposes the haughtiness, but he gives undeserved kindness to the humble ones.
Watchtower comments ...
''Having a regular share in the Christian ministry can help us to be humble. Lowliness of mind can make us effective when we approach strangers we find from house to house and in other places. This is especially true when householders initially respond to the Kingdom message with apathy or rudeness. Our beliefs are often challenged, and humility can help the Christian to keep answering questions than ''with a mild temper and deep respect.'' (1 Pet. 3:15) Humble servants of God have moved to new territories and have helped people with different cultures and standards of living. Such ministers may humbly have to cope with the difficult task of learning a new language in order to be of better service to those with whom they want to share the good news. How commendable!--Matt. 28:19,20. w10/15/05 15,16a
My comments ...
The fully scriptural text says so as to get the 'context' ...
5 In like manner, YOU younger men, be in subjection to the older men. But all of YOU gird yourselves with lowliness of mind toward one another, because God opposes the haughty ones, but he gives undeserved kindness to the humble ones.
Well, I'm guess I'm going to go off on a tangent as I thought I'd like to focus for a second on the beginning of this verse ...
younger men
older men
It seems in order to be considered an 'older man' according to the Jewish custom one would have to be at least 40 years old ... but 'age' wasn't only it either ...
I thought you might find this little tidbit interesting ... :giverose: I know I did anyway ... ;)
"Every member of the Sanhedrin had to be distinguished in Torah knowledge, wisdom, humility, fear of God, indifference to monetary gain, love of truth, love of fellow man, and good reputation. It is thus written, "You shall provide out of all the people, able men, who fear God, men of truth, disdaining unjust gain, and place them over [the people]" (Exodus 18:21). It is likewise written, "Take from each of your tribes, wise men, with understanding and full of knowledge, and I will make them your leaders" (Deut. 1:13).
Similarly, the members of the Sanhedrin must command respect as mature individuals. Therefore, it is preferable that each member be at least 40 years old, unless he is incomparable in wisdom and universally respected. Similarly, it is preferable that the head of the Sanhedrin be at least 50 years old. Under no condition should a person under 18 be appointed to the Sanhedrin.
A person who is very old may not sit on the Sanhedrin, since he is apt to be too severe. The same is true of a man who is sterile, or even childless. A Sanhedrin containing any such member is not validly constituted. Therefore, if a member becomes very old or sexually maimed, he must be replaced."
Now, I personally find these 'qualifications' very interesting ... :thinking:
For when the Scriptures speak about 'older men' would they not be thinking about these types of men?
And if an 'older man' HAD to have these qualifications in order to serve in a 'shepherding' or 'judging' capacity then of course the 'younger men' should indeed look up to them and be submissive to their wisdom if it was based solidly on Scripture ... which they HAD to be fully aware of ...
The very first Sanhedrin came into existence in the days of Moses ... when 70 older men were appointed to help Moses, making the full number 71. This number is still considered today to be the official number for the Sanhedrin.
Now, if we bring this up to today, and the Christian congregation had this in mind for those who would 'take the lead' in the congregation ... then wouldn't they too have to live up to these HIGH standards ... standards that the Scriptures say they MUST ...
1Tim. 3:1-13 ...
1 The word is faithful: if any one aspires to exercise oversight, he desires a good work.
2 The overseer then must be irreproachable, husband of one wife, sober, discreet, decorous, hospitable, apt to teach;
3 not given to excesses from wine, not a striker, but mild, not addicted to contention, not fond of money,
4 conducting his own house well, having his children in subjection with all gravity;
5 (but if one does not know how to conduct his own house, how shall he take care of the assembly of God?)
6 not a novice, that he may not, being inflated, fall into the fault of the devil.
7 But it is necessary that he should have also a good testimony from those without, that he may fall not into reproach and the snare of the devil.
8 Ministers, in like manner, grave, not double-tongued, not given to much wine, not seeking gain by base means,
9 holding the mystery of the faith in a pure conscience.
10 And let these be first proved, then let them minister, being without charge against them .
11 The women (their wives) in like manner grave, not slanderers, sober, faithful in all things.
12 Let the ministers be husbands of one wife, conducting their children and their own houses well:
13 for those who shall have ministered well obtain for themselves a good degree, and much boldness in faith which is in Christ Jesus.
So, now I'm left to wondering here ... :thinking: :scratchhead:
So, a man who lived back in the early Christian congregation who wanted to serve in the capacity of an 'older man' had to be expert in the 'law', and live up to the qualifications above ...
They had to be 'older' or 'elderly, senior' ... even Moses was older being 80 years when he led the nation ... (he was too young, or not qualified enough even when he was 40)
So would we not expect 'older men' to have the same qualifications when it comes to God's Word ...? Should they not have a SOLID grasp of Scripture and a SOUND understanding of it ...? Would this not take TIME, years of study and meditating on God's written word?
If a person did not qualify for the SCRIPTURAL REQUIREMENTS ... "then just as a person was forbidden to appoint a man to the Sanhedrin or any other court if he does not have the necessary qualifications, even if he has other good qualities" ... then would this not also apply in principle in the Christian congregation as well ... :dontknow:
And now we come to the part of the Scripture mentioned in the text above ...
All of you gird yourselves with lowliness of mind toward one another, because God opposes the haughtiness, but he gives undeserved kindness to the humble ones.
Due to the fact that 'older men' were so 'SPIRITUAL' and had such a high standard they had to live up to, they had to BE VERY CAREFUL NOT to let these 'qualifications' ... go to their heads as it were ...
They had to remain HUMBLE, remembering that they were SERVANTS of their fellow brothers and sisters ... that they wanted to help their brothers grow in faith and knowledge of the teachings taught them by Christ and his followers ... and if necessary protect and counsel them ... but also doing so with a mild, just, and loving manner.
To me ... these 'standards' are goals to which we can ALL seek to attain, both men and women as we seek to become 'spiritual men and women' setting a fine example in the eyes of God as well as the eyes of men ...
Let us show 'lowliness of mind' or humility with all we meet no matter what circumstances that may be in.
Well, I'm not quite sure I have said all things right ... :blush:
However, I do have a question for 'experts' in language or the set up of the early congregation ... :questioning: :giverose:
In 1Tim. 3:1 when it speaks about the 'office of an overseer' ... I found it interesting that the definition of the word seems to imply a man who would 'travel' ... rather like Paul for example?
The Greek word is 'overseer' is ...
episkope
from 1980 inspection (for relief); by impl. superintendence; spec., the Christian "episcopate":- the office of a "bishop", bishoprick, visitation
episkeptomai
to inspect, i.e. (by impl.) to select; by extens. to go to see, relieve:- look out, visit
Then later on in 1Tim. 3:8 we have the word 'deacon' or 'ministers' or 'ministerial servants' ...
diakonos
prob. from an obs diako (to run on errands; comp. 1377); an attendant, i.e (gen.) a waiter (at table or in other menial duties); spec. a Christian teacher and pastor (tech. a deacon or deaconess):- deacon, minister, servant
Now ... I'm left to wondering here ... :scratchhead: with a rather unusual thought process :huh: ... what else is new for me though ;) ...
Did Jesus not say that his disciples were to 'minister' or 'serve' one another ... to 'teach' one another the 'good news of the kingdom ...?
Sooooooo
In the Christian congregation then wouldn't ALL the 'elders' then be 'ministers' or 'deacons' ... and the 'traveling' brothers be the 'overseers or bishops' ...?
Just something to get ya thinking too!!:P:whistle:;):siskiss::siskiss:
Love to all ... BR :sheepy: :bouncyhearts: