11-14-2007, 04:52 PM
Hello there dear family ... :hibye:
What a beautiful day it is today ... although the chemtrails are really trying hard to spoil it ... :shocked::(
The Scripture text for today is from Eph. 1:11 ...
We were foreordained according to the purpose of him who operates all things according to the way his will counsels.
Watchtower comments ...
''The apostle John had the privilege of learning in a vision the number of those who would become Christ's joint heirs---144,000. (Rev. 7:4-8; 14:1,3) United with Christ as King, they serve ''for the praise of (God's) glory.'' (Eph. 1:12-14) The foreordination of the 144,000 does not mean that certain individuals were predestined to serve God faithfully in this way. Indeed, the admonition in the Christian Greek Scriptures was written primarily to guide and strengthen anointed ones to maintain integrity and keep themselves worthy of their heavenly calling. (Phil. 2:12; 2Thess. 1:5, 11; 2 Pet. 1:10,11) Jehovah knows in advance that 144,000 individuals will qualify to serve his purpose. Who they prove to be depends on how those invited individually choose to live their life, a decision that each one of them must make personally.''--Matt. 24:13 w6/1/06 11,12
My comments ...
Well, I had to give this some thought for today :thinking:... and hopefully my 'thought(s)' is/are on the right trail ... :giverose:
Where to start ... :scratchhead: :giverose: and how to write what I'm thinking in some coherent way ... :post:
First of all, it seems to me that the NWT doesn't really convey the true meaning or 'feeling' of what is happening in chapter one of Ephesians ...
For example, notice how Eph. 1:4,5 is stated ...:read:
4 just as he chose us in union with him before the founding of the world, that we should be holy and without blemish before him in love. 5 For he foreordained us to the adoption through Jesus Christ as sons to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will,
To me verse 4 seems to show that it is 'us' who out of love try to be 'holy and without blemish' ... and if we are then we can be 'adopted as sons' ...
When I looked at other translations it seemed to me to give a different feeling of what is happening ...
For example here is how some other translations render these verses ...
(GNB) 4 Even before the world was made, God had already chosen us to be his through our union with Christ, so that we would be holy and without fault before him. Because of his love
5 God had already decided that through Jesus Christ he would make us his children---this was his pleasure and purpose.
(ESV) 4 even as he chose us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and blameless before him. In love
5 he predestined us for adoption through Jesus Christ, according to the purpose of his will,
(Amplified) 4 Even as [in His love] He chose us [actually picked us out for Himself as His own] i Christ before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy (consecrated and set apart for Him) and blameless in His sight, even above reproach, before Him in love. . 5 For He foreordained us (destined us, planned in love for us) to be adopted (revealed) as His own children trough Jesus Christ, in accordance with the purpose of His will [because it pleased Him and was His kind intent] -
Soooooooooooo now ...
A couple of things stand out to me as a possibility ... :love: and seems to me to be in harmony with the rest of Scripture ... :read:
It was BECAUSE of GOD'S LOVE for US that he 'foreordained' (or determined before) for Christ to be the one to bring us 'back' into the original state of being 'sons of God' ...
For example, I am thinking of 1John 4:19 ...
(ASV) We love, because he first loved us.
(DRB) Let us therefore love God: because God first hath loved us.
(GW) We love because God loved us first.
The only reason WE can love is because we were showed WHAT LOVE IS by our God and by his Son ... or how would we ever know what love really is ...?:dontknow:
1John 4:8 ...
(BBE) He who has no love has no knowledge of God, because God is love.
(Darby) He that loves not has not known God; for God is love.
John 3:16 ...
(Darby) For God so loved the world, that he gave his only-begotten Son, that whosoever believes on him may not perish, but have life eternal.
John 13:34 ...
(BBE) I give you a new law: Have love one for another; even as I have had love for you, so are you to have love one for another.
John 15:13 ...
(CEV) The greatest way to show love for friends is to die for them.
So, WHO did our Lord die FOR ...? Who did our Lord have LOVE FOR ...? WHO did our Lord want to have a relationship between his Father and men restored ...?
To me NOT just a 'chosen few' have the privilege to become 'children or sons of God' ... but ALL those who accept Christ Jesus as their Savior and Ransomer ... we try to be 'holy' and 'without blemish' ... and who LOVE God and Christ in RETURN ...
Yes, are we not ALL HEIRS ... do we not ALL have in INHERITANCE ... a 'releasing by a ransom' (verse 14) do we not too receive 'enlightenment' or 'understanding' ... something we can only have by means of the holy spirit ...?
I cannot help but think of what Christ Jesus to the Scribes and the Pharisees at Matt. 23:13 ...
(BBE) But a curse is on you, scribes and Pharisees, false ones! because you are shutting the kingdom of heaven against men: for you do not go in yourselves, and those who are going in, you keep back.
(DRB) But woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites, because you shut the kingdom of heaven against men: for you yourselves do not enter in and those that are going in, you suffer not to enter.
(GNB) "How terrible for you, teachers of the Law and Pharisees! You hypocrites! You lock the door to the Kingdom of heaven in people's faces, but you yourselves don't go in, nor do you allow in those who are trying to enter!
(ISV) "How terrible it will be for you, scribes and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You shut the door to the kingdom of heaven in people's faces. You don't go in yourselves, and [b]you don't allow those who are trying to enter to go in[/b].
Yes, MEN may TRY to stop us from attaining our inheritance ... but they will NOT SUCCEED if we do not allow them that 'power' ...
We MUST put our trust and hope on the ONLY ONE who WILL LET US ENTER ... and that is CHRIST JESUS ... the one whom God chose and ordained to make this possible ...!!
These are just some thoughts and reflections that are coming to mind in pondering over chapter Ephesians chapter 1 ... :huh::read:
I would love some further input as to the period being before or after 'in love' in verse 4 and the possible meaning this would give ... :giverose:
Also, for vicky and others who have studied the 'show bread' of earlier times you might find this an interesting connection for research ... :happyheart::read: :read:
In the text scripture above in verse 11 I found it very interesting to see this connection made to ... 'the PURPOSE of him' ...
The Greek word for 'purpose' is ...
prothesis
a setting forth, e.e. (fig.) proposal (intention); spec. the show-bread (in the Temple) as exposed before God:- purpose, shew [-bread].
Not quite sure how this might fit in but I thought it might be something interesting to think about ... :giverose: or maybe not ... ;):P
Well, I guess that's it for now ... :love: I hope I haven't been toooo confusing ... :funnyface::shocked::confused:
Luv to all ... BR :sheepy: :bouncyhearts:
What a beautiful day it is today ... although the chemtrails are really trying hard to spoil it ... :shocked::(
The Scripture text for today is from Eph. 1:11 ...
We were foreordained according to the purpose of him who operates all things according to the way his will counsels.
Watchtower comments ...
''The apostle John had the privilege of learning in a vision the number of those who would become Christ's joint heirs---144,000. (Rev. 7:4-8; 14:1,3) United with Christ as King, they serve ''for the praise of (God's) glory.'' (Eph. 1:12-14) The foreordination of the 144,000 does not mean that certain individuals were predestined to serve God faithfully in this way. Indeed, the admonition in the Christian Greek Scriptures was written primarily to guide and strengthen anointed ones to maintain integrity and keep themselves worthy of their heavenly calling. (Phil. 2:12; 2Thess. 1:5, 11; 2 Pet. 1:10,11) Jehovah knows in advance that 144,000 individuals will qualify to serve his purpose. Who they prove to be depends on how those invited individually choose to live their life, a decision that each one of them must make personally.''--Matt. 24:13 w6/1/06 11,12
My comments ...
Well, I had to give this some thought for today :thinking:... and hopefully my 'thought(s)' is/are on the right trail ... :giverose:
Where to start ... :scratchhead: :giverose: and how to write what I'm thinking in some coherent way ... :post:
First of all, it seems to me that the NWT doesn't really convey the true meaning or 'feeling' of what is happening in chapter one of Ephesians ...
For example, notice how Eph. 1:4,5 is stated ...:read:
4 just as he chose us in union with him before the founding of the world, that we should be holy and without blemish before him in love. 5 For he foreordained us to the adoption through Jesus Christ as sons to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will,
To me verse 4 seems to show that it is 'us' who out of love try to be 'holy and without blemish' ... and if we are then we can be 'adopted as sons' ...
When I looked at other translations it seemed to me to give a different feeling of what is happening ...
For example here is how some other translations render these verses ...
(GNB) 4 Even before the world was made, God had already chosen us to be his through our union with Christ, so that we would be holy and without fault before him. Because of his love
5 God had already decided that through Jesus Christ he would make us his children---this was his pleasure and purpose.
(ESV) 4 even as he chose us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and blameless before him. In love
5 he predestined us for adoption through Jesus Christ, according to the purpose of his will,
(Amplified) 4 Even as [in His love] He chose us [actually picked us out for Himself as His own] i Christ before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy (consecrated and set apart for Him) and blameless in His sight, even above reproach, before Him in love. . 5 For He foreordained us (destined us, planned in love for us) to be adopted (revealed) as His own children trough Jesus Christ, in accordance with the purpose of His will [because it pleased Him and was His kind intent] -
Soooooooooooo now ...
A couple of things stand out to me as a possibility ... :love: and seems to me to be in harmony with the rest of Scripture ... :read:
It was BECAUSE of GOD'S LOVE for US that he 'foreordained' (or determined before) for Christ to be the one to bring us 'back' into the original state of being 'sons of God' ...
For example, I am thinking of 1John 4:19 ...
(ASV) We love, because he first loved us.
(DRB) Let us therefore love God: because God first hath loved us.
(GW) We love because God loved us first.
The only reason WE can love is because we were showed WHAT LOVE IS by our God and by his Son ... or how would we ever know what love really is ...?:dontknow:
1John 4:8 ...
(BBE) He who has no love has no knowledge of God, because God is love.
(Darby) He that loves not has not known God; for God is love.
John 3:16 ...
(Darby) For God so loved the world, that he gave his only-begotten Son, that whosoever believes on him may not perish, but have life eternal.
John 13:34 ...
(BBE) I give you a new law: Have love one for another; even as I have had love for you, so are you to have love one for another.
John 15:13 ...
(CEV) The greatest way to show love for friends is to die for them.
So, WHO did our Lord die FOR ...? Who did our Lord have LOVE FOR ...? WHO did our Lord want to have a relationship between his Father and men restored ...?
To me NOT just a 'chosen few' have the privilege to become 'children or sons of God' ... but ALL those who accept Christ Jesus as their Savior and Ransomer ... we try to be 'holy' and 'without blemish' ... and who LOVE God and Christ in RETURN ...
Yes, are we not ALL HEIRS ... do we not ALL have in INHERITANCE ... a 'releasing by a ransom' (verse 14) do we not too receive 'enlightenment' or 'understanding' ... something we can only have by means of the holy spirit ...?
I cannot help but think of what Christ Jesus to the Scribes and the Pharisees at Matt. 23:13 ...
(BBE) But a curse is on you, scribes and Pharisees, false ones! because you are shutting the kingdom of heaven against men: for you do not go in yourselves, and those who are going in, you keep back.
(DRB) But woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites, because you shut the kingdom of heaven against men: for you yourselves do not enter in and those that are going in, you suffer not to enter.
(GNB) "How terrible for you, teachers of the Law and Pharisees! You hypocrites! You lock the door to the Kingdom of heaven in people's faces, but you yourselves don't go in, nor do you allow in those who are trying to enter!
(ISV) "How terrible it will be for you, scribes and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You shut the door to the kingdom of heaven in people's faces. You don't go in yourselves, and [b]you don't allow those who are trying to enter to go in[/b].
Yes, MEN may TRY to stop us from attaining our inheritance ... but they will NOT SUCCEED if we do not allow them that 'power' ...
We MUST put our trust and hope on the ONLY ONE who WILL LET US ENTER ... and that is CHRIST JESUS ... the one whom God chose and ordained to make this possible ...!!
These are just some thoughts and reflections that are coming to mind in pondering over chapter Ephesians chapter 1 ... :huh::read:
I would love some further input as to the period being before or after 'in love' in verse 4 and the possible meaning this would give ... :giverose:
Also, for vicky and others who have studied the 'show bread' of earlier times you might find this an interesting connection for research ... :happyheart::read: :read:
In the text scripture above in verse 11 I found it very interesting to see this connection made to ... 'the PURPOSE of him' ...
The Greek word for 'purpose' is ...
prothesis
a setting forth, e.e. (fig.) proposal (intention); spec. the show-bread (in the Temple) as exposed before God:- purpose, shew [-bread].
Not quite sure how this might fit in but I thought it might be something interesting to think about ... :giverose: or maybe not ... ;):P
Well, I guess that's it for now ... :love: I hope I haven't been toooo confusing ... :funnyface::shocked::confused:
Luv to all ... BR :sheepy: :bouncyhearts: